Opinions on this bull
- Thread starter kiku_fs
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KMacGinley
Well-known member
What about the bull? How are you managing him?
KMacGinley
Well-known member
Has he been with them to breed them or do you customarily run bulls with them for extended periods of time?
Daybreak
Well-known member
Howdy,
I do not like him
reasons;
no butt
no rear legs and no rear muscling
no good barrel form
the lineage is OK, but just because his grand sire was 036, does not mean he walks with as much clout. EPD's are one thing, but confirmation is another big item to go along with that.
If he was the best of the bunch when you bought him, find another supplier.
Fine, he bred your cows, don't wait to see what they look like, take him out of production and get your self something else. Time is a wasting.....
Here is a picture of one of my yearling bull's. In this picture the bull is 13 months old
I do not like him
reasons;
no butt
no rear legs and no rear muscling
no good barrel form
the lineage is OK, but just because his grand sire was 036, does not mean he walks with as much clout. EPD's are one thing, but confirmation is another big item to go along with that.
If he was the best of the bunch when you bought him, find another supplier.
Fine, he bred your cows, don't wait to see what they look like, take him out of production and get your self something else. Time is a wasting.....
Here is a picture of one of my yearling bull's. In this picture the bull is 13 months old
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
Daybreak":39ihn8mv said:
Good points PT Barnum would of had a blast with EPD's can sell anything no matter how it looks.The Urban Cowboy doesn't know what a good cow is supposed to look like but they can study epds on the internet. Of course no one ever fluffed there numbers.
KMacGinley
Well-known member
Because :?: :?:
Daybreak
Well-known member
Howdy,la4angus":nbgsp2jk said:
I hate to tell ya, but Hoff's First Edition is nothing to be proud of either...
KMacGinley
Well-known member
A lot of people swear by the 036 bloodline, Your bull has some problems perhaps, but one thing that jumps out at you is how thin he is. We leave the bulls in for 60 days and pull them. They go on vacation for the rest of the year and build back up the resources, that I hope they burned up breeding cows. A young bull has a hard time competing with cows for feed. He is trying to grow and do his job at the same time. While calving can have its pleasant moments, I think that 60 days is plenty of time to spend checking cows. At least it is for me. As for your cows coming back in heat or not coming in heat:
1. Was your bull semen tested?
2. Are your cows getting enough nutrition?
I would probably buy a new bull/sell that one and build a bull lot in whatever order you choose. You might want to put some weight on him before selling so you don't lose your shirt. ;-)
As for your cows coming back in heat or not coming in heat:1. Was your bull semen tested?
2. Are your cows getting enough nutrition?
I would probably buy a new bull/sell that one and build a bull lot in whatever order you choose. You might want to put some weight on him before selling so you don't lose your shirt. ;-)
purecountry
Well-known member
Kiku_fs, you mentioned your dad in the decision-making process here. If you don't mind my askin', how old are you? Are we all tryin' to give advice to a curious kid with a keyboard, or are you old enough to be IN the decision making?
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
We all have opinions on livestock and seedstock! That is a given fact. Opinions on this post have been offered relating to B/R New Design 036 and also Hoff First Edition 058 242, expressing a negative judgment on each bull. An opinion is just what it says it is - an opinion. But to truly speak in an authoritative manner with conviction and validity, there should be justification for the criticism and disapproval.
There are those who demean 036 - perhaps for legitimate reason(s), however - he is the sire of many excellent individuals, Bon View New Design 1407 being one of the better known currently.....and one MUST also consider the Dam of the progeny whose sire is being judged, for her EPD's are 50% of the Genetic determination of their respective offspring.
That being said - we now are right back to the unfortunate bull that kiku_fs presented to us for our somewhat acrid comments! No one - to my knowledge - has inquired as to who the DAM of that "Funnel-Butt" bull is! She had as much input determining his poor phenotype and probable negative genetic potential as did 036 - maybe more - but she is not mentioned! In optimal bull selection, the subject Bull's DAM should ALWAYS be considered if Replacement heifers (or Herd Bull Prospects) are to be used as seedstock.
I am at a loss to understand why Daybreak came down so hard on Hoff First Edition 058 242. I am not aware of any of his progeny displaying negatives at this time, and again, if such is the case, the Dams should be perused carefully to accurately pin-point whatever Phenotype or Genotype problems may exist in conjunction with the Sire in question - - rather than to bad-mouth the individual with no accompanying justification.
In short - in breeding - as in dancing - it takes two to Tango, and ALL the participants need to be considered in the contest!
DOC HARRIS
There are those who demean 036 - perhaps for legitimate reason(s), however - he is the sire of many excellent individuals, Bon View New Design 1407 being one of the better known currently.....and one MUST also consider the Dam of the progeny whose sire is being judged, for her EPD's are 50% of the Genetic determination of their respective offspring.
That being said - we now are right back to the unfortunate bull that kiku_fs presented to us for our somewhat acrid comments! No one - to my knowledge - has inquired as to who the DAM of that "Funnel-Butt" bull is! She had as much input determining his poor phenotype and probable negative genetic potential as did 036 - maybe more - but she is not mentioned! In optimal bull selection, the subject Bull's DAM should ALWAYS be considered if Replacement heifers (or Herd Bull Prospects) are to be used as seedstock.
I am at a loss to understand why Daybreak came down so hard on Hoff First Edition 058 242. I am not aware of any of his progeny displaying negatives at this time, and again, if such is the case, the Dams should be perused carefully to accurately pin-point whatever Phenotype or Genotype problems may exist in conjunction with the Sire in question - - rather than to bad-mouth the individual with no accompanying justification.
In short - in breeding - as in dancing - it takes two to Tango, and ALL the participants need to be considered in the contest!
DOC HARRIS
SEC
Well-known member
Fair enough Doc, but I have yet to see a New Design 036 son other than New Frontier that is any good. My judgement then comes from seeing hundreds of progeny that are average at very best and at worst they are.....poor.
With this that would be why I would consider 036 as a poor sire in the Angus breed, let alone his paperwork on the dams side. 036 isn't bred to be powerful would not be fair.
I don't believe that 036 has had a positive impact on the Angus breed despite his " carcass " potential.
Of course, this is just my opinion
With this that would be why I would consider 036 as a poor sire in the Angus breed, let alone his paperwork on the dams side. 036 isn't bred to be powerful would not be fair.
I don't believe that 036 has had a positive impact on the Angus breed despite his " carcass " potential.
Of course, this is just my opinion
I like his EPDs. I like his pedigree. I then look at him and see a cull. Sorry, this has already been brought up more thoroughly than I am capable of; but he is lacking in muscling throughout but particularly in his whole hind half. Even the best pedigrees throw out a weak sister every so often. IF this calf looked like this at the breeder's I don't know why they showed it to a buyer much less took anybody's money for it. How long have you had him (and I apologize if you have already said and I missed it.)
