Old Cow...can I keep her alive long enough to calve?

[branguscowgirl]

I would be concerned also. Are you pretty certain of when she was bred?
Can the vet tell you anything more about the calf with palpating again?

 

[Wisteria Farms]

As for when she was bred...no...I'm not. See, she has always taken on first heat...and while we write down EVERY cow we see to be in heat, we never see HER. Some are obvious as they and the bull are glued to each other's side or we see them riding or we see them post-breeding holding their tail out...but Granny has never been one we've SEEN in heat...yet she always calves like clockwork. A funny sidenote... we bred three cows for a friend of ours and since I SAW them get bred, I gave him his "expected" due dates. He was AMAZED when the cows actually calved very close to those dates... he thought I was a genius...LOL.

Anyway, with Granny I took the date of her last calf (I think it was May 16 but I'd have to look to verify)... and I added 30 days to arrive at when she could possibly have come back into heat. I know this varies from cow to cow but was just looking for a good estimate...(due date approx 3/25). The fact that her vulva is swollen is an indicator as well as the milk in her teats but I'm afraid to be off more than a couple weeks...(like if she took on the SECOND heat) tonight I did notice a little clear "jelly" dripping so I'm thinking she is losing her plug. The vet didn't offer how FAR along she thought she was, only that the calf was presenting correctly (not butt first). This bull throws small calves that grow like weeds so chances are, if I can get a live calf it'll be easy to mistake it as preterm.

I really think all will be OK but the "mom" in me (I have three daughters) is just concerned about all the "what ifs". What if its too soon, what if she retains the placenta, what if she DOESNT get back up, what if I have to DRAG her carcass out of the barn (which will be heartbreaking but very possible), what if she struggles to stand for the new calf but still can't (that will break my heart too)... this won't end without tears but the goal is the live calf and a peaceful end for Granny.

 

[branguscowgirl]

Yes you sure do have a lot to think about! With the earliest possible due date being the 25th., I would be tempted to not give the Dex tomorrow. If she is progressing on her own, (discharge, dilation, ect.)and comfortable, maybe give her a little more time. It is only the 20th.. 5 days early, not so bad. 26 days early, not so good. You are definitely walking a fine line by waiting, and her having enough strength to give birth, or inducing, and having the calf too early. My thoughts are, you are more likely to be able to save the calf, than to save her. So let the calf mature and be on alert for signs that it is ready. (just as you are.) If no immediate danger........

 

[Nesikep]

If you think she's significantly bagging up, I would doubt you're 26 days early... of course it's also hard to tell when they're laying down. Do you have hip lifters? or a neighbor who does?.. might be an idea to locate some ahead of time, and get the rigging together since you probably can't get under the barn with a front end loader to do it, you'll need some pulley blocks and a good length of rope. I found home depot has a really nice nylon braided 7/16" rope in a 100' length that would do nicely for that... Maybe someone has a winch on their truck you could run up to the rafters and back down to the hip lifter?

Just some ideas for preparation!

 

[Wisteria Farms]

Nes, no she's NOT significantly bagging up...that's my concern. The vet said she's got milk but from 7 years of owning this cow I know her udder and its not her pre-calving udder. The teats aren't even tight... Are you thinking I need the rigging to get her out of the barn? If so...then no...I shouldn't have said "drag her out of the barn"...that was a little dramatic on my part)...it'll be a feat but our stall panels inside are all just pins... we would have to unpin everything but we COULD get it all undone to get her out with the loader.

Today's events were a bit of vaginal prolapse (slightly smaller than volleyball)... I called the vet who agreed that her straining to move about the stall has probably caused it so I pushed it back in (with a flat/clean hand)...She said as long as she's STILL acting normal... to keep the calf in...so I will. However, at the first sign of any further decline I will take the calf. Will post pictures later... I took them with hubby's phone and he left...

 

[branguscowgirl]

No, I think he meant the hip lifter was to help her up, so the calf could nurse and to get her in another position..........I don't know if I would do that or not?
Anyway, I am with the vet about keeping the calf in for awhile. (As I said above.)
I hope your day is good. Will anxiously await news!

 

[Wisteria Farms]

Branguscowgirl...
Agreed. I've heard sometimes you get into fractures and such if you're not really careful with the hiplifters...and not sure I trust the neighbors to do it right (I think I'm a lot more considerate than I've seen them be!!) This calf most likely won't be nursing unless it can learn quick to drink while she's laying down. I DO have one in the pasture now that does that but the plan is to get the colostrum from Granny and bottle it to the calf for as long as we can (atleast a day or three) then switch to bottle. I doubt Granny is going to ever be back on her feet at this point.

Also, forgot to thank you for the compliment on the barn...yes, we built it to make life as easy as possible...There is another barn about the same size just to the left of the red one. Its currently the hubby's warehouse but in time will house a cooler where we can process our own beef. The red barn has access to three different pastures... all the mommas are in the pasture to the RIGHT of the picture which is why Granny chose to lay outside...I think because she could see the herd. Whats funny is that I have the bottle baby in the stall NEXT to Granny. We had installed heavy canvas tarps as a windbreak in his stall and one of the zip ties came loose so when I'm in there messing with Granny, he pops his head through the hole and watches what is going on... its kind of funny to see him playing peek-a-boo. Anyway, thanks again...

 

[cmf1]

I'm hoping it works out for you Angie. I'm waiting on a late bred granny myself. I guess this'll be her last go round here too.
She's 14 and her calf last year just didn't perform like her past ones.
I've got 2 daughters from her that I really like, and when she calves this year I'll probably put the calf on the nurse cow pretty quick.

 

[Wisteria Farms]

Hey Chris... THANKS.
Update: All day Friday the prolapse would not stay in so I was constantly pushing it back in (to which it would just pop back out the first time she moved or grunted or anything). So I called the vet and got the Dex shot (20cc). We gave the shot yesterday (Saturday) morning around 10a.m. By the afternoon (we were cleaning the barn), Jeff remarked that her bag looked VERY full and maybe we didn't even need to give the shot but it was a done deal so we just continued to check on her every hour throughout the day. Its crazy but the LAST time I pushed the prolapse in on Friday night, it stayed. She went all yesterday without it coming back out (THANK GOD). Its now 2a.m. and I just did the check (can't sleep... just too nervous for the old girl)... She's laying in the stall just chewing away...nothing happening yet.

I suspect we will have our calf sometime tomorrow (hopefully) and I'll post all the pictures I've been taking... THANK YOU EVERYONE for your concern... it has really helped...Angie

 

[cag]

Have been following your story. Hope everything goes great for you all. Keep us all posted .
Good luck :cboy:

 

[Nesikep]

Perhaps I should rephrase what I wished to you earlier when I said "Hope everything comes out alright" to "hope all the right stuff comes out all right"...

I was thinking of all that rigging just to lift her on her feet... I didn't know if you could get in there with a loader or not, and was thinking of other ways to get her lifted.

Keeping fingers crossed for granny

 

[cowgirl8]

We've had prolapes cows where the vet stitched them up. We are then told to watch and when they go into labor to cut the cords holding her shut...I hate when we have one like that. :bang:

 

[branguscowgirl]

Wish you the best! Will wait anxiously for your news!

 

[Katpau]

I hope all goes well with her calving. I had one last year that began to prolapse each time she laid down. It would go back in if you got her up and made her move, but of course that is not an option for you. She calved within a few days of that. The calf was 115 pounds, and she had it unassisted during the night. Everything looked normal in the morning. We shipped her to avoid future problems. The cow was 10 and had always had large calves.

Many years ago we had a heifer that had to have a large calf pulled. We lost the calf and the cow could not get up. The Vet provided a shot to reduce swelling, but she was still down several days latter. We were going to borrow some hip lifters from the local Coop, but they were already out. My husband bought a set of wide nylon straps about six foot long and six inches wide. They each had a large metal loop at both ends. I believe he got them at a logging supply store, but you could perhaps make some. We put one around each leg and hooked them to a tow chain over the tractor bucket. We were able to lift her rear end and she was then able to get up in the front after we placed her rear feet in position. She was weaker on one side. We kept her like that with hay and water in front for about an hour. We then repeated this several times a day and each day she improved. By about the third day, we could lower the bucket slightly and she would stay up, but if she began to topple the straps would catch her. When she began to stay up longer without need of the straps we removed the straps once she was up and let her stand until she went down which was usually at least an hour or longer. I believe it was after about a week of lifting when we went down to give her feed and water and she rose on her own. Kept her in a smaller pasture with hay and water close by until we were sure she could get out and graze and get to water without assistance. I would not keep this heifer today, but at the time I was trying to grow the herd and she got a second chance. She went on to have 9 more calves with never another problem.

 

[Katpau]

I should mention that getting the strap under each leg took some effort the first day. We had to roll her to get it under the down leg. Once we had one under each leg, we took the four loops and tied them together on top of her back. It was simple after that to hook the straps onto the tractor each time.

 

[Nesikep]

As far as I know, vaginal prolapse is quite hereditary, while uterine prolapse is just bad luck.

I've had cows that got super pudding-butt, had huge calves, and none ever showed a sign of prolapse, while others it didn't matter the size of the calf, would always have it, and I'd say there was a 75% chance it would be passed on to the offspring.

A cow that's been down this long, and has reached her age without prolapse problems I would let slide...

 

[Wisteria Farms]

UPDATE:
Well, I think we might be in early labor... tonight we cleaned her stall really well (had to clean AROUND her) but she has fresh bedding now for herself and the new calf. While we were doing it she pooped a lot (so I know she's clearing the way for the calf). She kept turning her head to her side so I think she's beginning contractions. Now, this is the part that most of you might think is ridiculous but... hubby and I are grabbing blankets and we're going to sleep in the barn... I just don't want her getting into a predicament and need a little help and us not be there. She's been a good old girl and we're going to do anything we can to help this go as well as possible.

Nes, yes, she's NEVER had any prolapse problems and her oldest daughter that I own (7years) has not either. Her other daughter I own will be calving for the first time this fall so have no experience with her yet but as much as I've read on it being hereditary, I've never once considered getting rid of her daughters. Granny has been absolutely trouble free... from working her in the chute, to leading the herd, she's just a sweetie who has bred back like clockwork. If, by some miraculous miracle, she would be able to get up again, I'm not sure I can be so quick to send her to the packer...might let her have one last summer grazing with the herd and then process in the fall. Not sure I'll get that lucky but I can hope. Hubby is taking it all pretty hard... she's really HIS cow... (yes we have his and hers...lol)

 

[branguscowgirl]

I don't blame you! I would be sleeping by her too! Lol
Heck, as nice as your barn is, I could live there!
Thinking good wishes for you tonight!!

 

[Dega Moo]

An adult sleepover. It's a bit chippie tonight in Southern Illinois to be sleeping in a barn. Hope you have plenty of blankets and she calves for you after everyone gets a good nights sleep. Betting tomorrow mornings coffee will be the best ever.

 

[Nesikep]

When we first got our cows, I made a 'fort' above the corrals and I slept in it... this was in february and it could get cold!.. was easy to hear if anything was happening though... To some people it might seem silly, but I don't think it does to anyone who's been following this thread. I'm waiting on a pet to calf too... I think tomorrow will be her day.. and I had 2 today.. Around here I have 'my' cows, and my dad has 'his'... I'm also getting my own back for all the ones I thought were good animals that he didn't keep, and all his are falling apart while 'my' cows have an average productive life of 10 calves.. There is one in my dad's line that I'm waiting for a heifer from.. she's only had bulls so far.. 4 of them in a row... maybe this year I will see if she's worth her salt raising a heifer... Seems that some cows can make 750 lb steers every time, but when it comes to raising a heifer the best they can do is 600