Old Cow...can I keep her alive long enough to calve?

[Chuckie]

Wisteria, Your other cows look great at the hay ring, just something happened to this cow, and she needs some TLC.

If you think back, does this cow pull down each year when she had a calf to a low body condition? Or was it just this one time? She should not have pulled down so low going into the winter as it is difficult to gain weight with low temps, mostly in your area.
If this is something she goes through each year, then I would not keep any heifers from her, but if this is a first time deal, I would get a vet to check her out. B12 shots, and probiotics etc...
If this was a first time happening, and she produced great heifers, I would do my best to get her back on her feet. I find it difficult to find a line of cows that produce the same product year and year. I will go the extra mile with these cows.

 

[branguscowgirl]

I agree, "nutrition" looks good for the rest of your cattle. But if her teeth are bad, possibly just not getting the nutrients from all that good feed? But again, possibly something a whole lot different is happening. Let's hope the vet exam will identify what it is.
Looking forward to hearing what she say's. Glad that you have a good one. My fingers are crossed!

 

[Wisteria Farms]

OK... Vet just left.

First off...she said she's seen this a lot this year and in younger cows (of 7-8 years). She said she was afraid she would get here and find a backwards calf...not so. Granny's calf is presenting normally. When she cleaned her out to do the palp, she also observed that her poop is good consistency. She had no temp and is NOT dehydrated (which I was worried about).

So, here's where we are... she administered a bottle of calcium (via IV) to replenish what is being given to the calf. To do this she put a halter on her head and tied it to the side (tying it to her back leg). She did fight this a bit so her energy isn't depleted...good. Due to moving around, she was only able to get 1/2 the bottle in (via jugular) and stuck her in the side to get the rest of it in...had to go slow so as not to give her a heart attack.
She also administered banamine to see if it helps her get up.
She checked her teats and she IS producing milk so that atleast tells us she IS getting close. Her vulva is also a little swollen so further confirmation that calving is coming. However, she was only dilated 1-2 so she didn't want to induce her JUST YET.
If Granny is not up by Thursday at the latest then we will induce her with 20cc (IM) of 4mg Dex. She said that would induce labor within 24 hours.
She's just hesitant to do it just yet as Granny isn't in any immediate danger and the longer the calf is IN is better.
Lets just keep our fingers crossed.

 

[branguscowgirl]

Well there is some promising news there! Calf position, Milk production, hydration status, and so forth! :clap:
We will anxiously wait along with you for the results!
Sounds like you have a good vet!
How was her tail and back leg tone? Any sign of a pinched nerve?

 

[Putangitangi]

How often do vets give Ca before calving? I thought it was a big no-no. If you interrupt their internal calcium mobilization, they are more prone to milk fever? Magnesium is more important because it allows efficient Ca mobilization from their own stores in bone and cells, is how I understand it.

If you get a live calf, it'll be interesting to see whether you can get it to overcome what is probably some serious stress at this stage.

 

[branguscowgirl]

How often do vets give Ca before calving? I thought it was a big no-no. If you interrupt their internal calcium mobilization, they are more prone to milk fever? Magnesium is more important because it allows efficient Ca mobilization from their own stores in bone and cells, is how I understand it.

If you get a live calf, it'll be interesting to see whether you can get it to overcome what is probably some serious stress at this stage.

Ca is sometimes given to down cows with milk fever or to help prevent milk fever prior to calving. When calcium stores go into producing milk, their Ca blood levels can be depleted. Ca also helps to strengthen muscle contraction. It works particularly well with uterine contractions. When my dog was in labor, and time would lapse between puppies, I would give her a tums with calcium and contractions would start again. Dogs, cattle, and women can get "milk fever" from low blood Ca levels. In women it is called Eclampsia. Mag is important to prevent Grass Tetany.

 

[regolith]

With those symptoms I would definitely be giving calcium pre-calving... it's just too risky not to cover that base.
I'm presuming this will be a supervised calving and calcium will be given again right up till she's out of risk for milk fever. If it was me I'd give her an oral boost of calcium/mag when she goes into labor then every twelve hours unless she's so bright and alert she obviously doesn't need it, for 2 - 3 days after calving. Magnesium is important too; it does have a role in preventing milk fever.

Wisteria, good luck with her, sounds like if she can just hang on a few more days you should get a live calf.
I sometimes get a cow that either doesn't gain or is slow to gain weight in spite of good feeding - lack of teeth would certainly be enough to cause it but most of mine would be due to liver damage from accumulated toxins. Possibility of subclinical disease pulling her back. Fifteen isn't that old but it's old enough for a life-time's immune challenges to catch up on her.
We had a cow down once for twelve days with nerve damage, calved in the night and stood up, she was pretty skinny because all she had to eat was the grass I cut and put in a wheelbarrow for her several times a day; I think she heard my boss saying if she hadn't calved by tomorrow he was going to shoot her because in the morning she was on her feet.

 

[branguscowgirl]

Good advice Regolith!

 

[Wisteria Farms]

Regolith (and branguscowgirl),
Thanks for the confirmation of what was already started... its much better to hear that your vet did well, rather than "you screwed up, I hope the calf lives". Of course this WILL be a supervised calving...that old girl is being treated like a queen (as will her calf when/if it arrives) and should I be lucky enough for it to be a heifer, then you can't IMAGINE how it will be spoiled!!!

Vet actually got here and was in the barn before I realized her truck was out there and when I walked up to the vehicle she was preparing the Ca IV...she laughed that Granny was just sitting there chewing her cud like nothing in the world was wrong. I really felt much better after she was here and am glad I called her to come out. She didn't mention giving additional calcium but i'll be sure to ask (about the mag too). Thanks again... now we just wait a couple days and see what happens.

 

[branguscowgirl]

I have a gut feeling, that with all you and your vets good care, that this is all going to work out for the best! We are all rooting for GRANNY!

 

[Nesikep]

Well, I don't know what more to say that "I hope everything comes out alright".. The last heifer calves of my granny were all spoiled brats, and not well integrated into the herd. All of Rosie's calves get pushed around until they're about 5 or 6 and they learn fighting techniques.

 

[Wisteria Farms]

Thanks Nes..I'm glad I'm not the only one that spoils them...
For anyone who needs the info... I found Calcium at Jeffers Livestock...called Cal-C Fresh Oral Calcium and Vitamin B. Its 5.95 a 300cc tube (the only drawback is you have to buy the applicator gun which looks like a caulk gun) for 18.95. Oh well... good investment if helps all work out ok. Thanks again...

 

[hicky214]

I just read all of this thread and I really admire what you are doing for this cow and calf. Spoil that big old girl. Im praying for the best for you and her.
Matt

 

[cowgirl8]

Thats the first thing we give a cow who goes down all of a sudden. You'll know real quick if its the cause. We had one go down last year and gave it to her in the field and a hour later she was normal again.

 

[Wisteria Farms]

Well...this morning went out to feed and found her in the stall (for those looking at pictures, its the doorway in front of the old green truck). Yesterday she was laying OUTSIDE the door, this morning she was in the stall. She was happy to see me (food) so I put the grain about 6' away just to see if she would get UP to go to it... (food is her biggest motivator/always has been). She TRIED to get up but didn't. The waterer is still untouched so I think due to the precip and wind we got overnight, she just knew where it was warm and dry and "army crawled" inside.

Cowgirl8 said we'd know real quick of its the cause... and judging by the fact that she's still down (calcium was given about 2:00p.m. yesterday)... I'm thinking Hypocalcaemia/Milk Fever is not the cause. The vet DID say that it certainly wouldn't HURT anything to give her the calcium. I REALLY think her old frame is just having a hard time supporting the weight of the late pregnancy. Most likely we will be inducing her in the next day or so...she's still bright eyed & eating/drinking like a champ...even got brushed head to tail so yes, she's being spoiled right now

 

[branguscowgirl]

Wisteria, you did not say if she has feeling and tone in her back legs and tail? Just curious if the vet examined her for a pinched nerve........(my vet can tell by the tail and takes a hemostat and pinches between the claws to check for feeling.)

 

[Wisteria Farms]

Branguscowgirl, I asked the vet about a pinched nerve and she shook her head "no"...
Because she had already examined her when I walked out there (she was preparing the Ca)... I took it that she had checked for that. She DOES have movement in her back legs (that's what's helping her to scoot along...and you can see her "scuffle" marks). I checked her just a minute ago and she is chewing cud (not like a happy chew but like a irritated chew)...her breathing is also slow and a little "grunty" (for lack of a better word). I have SOME cows who sound louder when they're dozing but this is different/softer so I'm going to watch her very close tonight... If I didn't know better, I'd think she might be in early stage labor but her udder hasn't blown out like it usually does... or she just might be half asleep...LOL...

We'll probably be taking the calf tomorrow (giving the Dex). I did stand and watch for about 20 minutes and the calf is lively... I can see it moving well...there's just a WHOLE LOTTA BELLY there so I'm even wondering if she might not have twins or a whole LOT of fluid...

 

[branguscowgirl]

Baby is probably trying to get in position, which would not be so easy without her up and moving around. Sometimes mine will lay there and look like the calf must be standing straight up in there! Their belly is a tall mountain. Lol
I will be thinking of you all night and tomorrow. So keep us informed! Very exciting!!

 

[Nesikep]

I can't remember for inducing labor, you give only dex? or dex and lute?... Oxcytocin comes after right?

 

[Wisteria Farms]

Nesikep... she said nothing about lute or oxytocin... just 20cc of 4mg Dexamethasone IM. I mentioned that I had Dex in the house but she commented that surely I had 2mg...not the 4mg needed (I checked and she was right). The REASON I have 2mg Dex is because when we do fall vaccinations I always notice that one or two have a bit of a reaction (stagger out of the chute) and I commented that I would like some Epinephrine just incase one of them actually goes down with a reaction. Instead of Epinephrine, they gave me the Dex. Haven't had to use it.

Anyway, she said I could come by the office and pick up the 20cc dose to give her. I'll probably do that tomorrow. She said from the time I give the shot, she should go into labor within 24 hours. The only drawback, she said, was that if the calf is NOT ready...(lungs/etc) that it'll basicly be an abortion... if the calf IS ready, then you get a live calf. That scared me a bit and is why I'm not JUMPING RIGHT IN to inducing her. I felt better that she was starting to produce milk but I'm NOT satisfied with her udder development...she usually blows up pretty big. But then you start second guessing that the fact that she's LAYING ON IT that maybe its having a hard time filling like it normally would... YIKES so much to consider. Just don't want to act too soon if the little bugger isn't ready.