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jillaroo

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Dylan, not to change the subject, but have you noticed bulls sale averages are WAY up?
Here in BC, bulls averages are over $1000 higher than at the same sales last year. I saw Creech's average was quite high back in January and I wondering if it was a glimpse of things to come.
Are they higher in Alberta and Sask as well?
Hope calving is going well for you, or do you calve on pasture?
 

KNERSIE

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Jovid

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SRBeef

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I know nothing about Red Angus but it just is not computing in my head how any bull can have a 56 lb BW, 486 lb 205-day WW, and a 1118 lb 365 day YW.

So from birth to 205 days his ADG is 2.09 lb/day

however from 205 to 365 days his ADG is suddenly 3.95 lb/day?

Did he get struck by lightning on day 206 or what?

I am not being critical, just trying to understand what I am reading. Please help me.

Jim
 

Northern Rancher

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A green calf at weaning can really gain once they see some feed. No different than the compensatory gain you see on yearlings going out to grass.
 

SRBeef

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NR, OK if there was a drought and his dam was maybe a BCS 2 or 3 at birth and short on milk up through 205 days, was he put on feed at day 206 and stuffed with silage etc up to day 365?

If so which is the only way I think he can have a 3.95 ADG what does that tell me about that bull? What will be the BW and WW of his calves? I don't think the numbers then can mean much of anything.

I don't think the real genetics of this bull in "normal" conditions will be known until he has a bunch of calves on the ground. Unless "normal" conditions for the user is a skinny cow then dump the calf at weaning into a very rich diet feedlot program.

Thanks for the reply.

Jim
 

Northern Rancher

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I have no idea how he got to where he was lol. I know grass cattle will grow through their hides if conditions are right.
 

Herefords.US

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SRBeef":1rebfz0a said:
I don't think the real genetics of this bull in "normal" conditions will be known until he has a bunch of calves on the ground.
Jim

I'd say that statement would be true for ANY bull, not just one that might have been raised or fed in an unconventional manner.

And, as far as YOUR omnipotent EPD values go, you'd also need to add this - a bunch of calves on the ground that were produced in an environment where there were also contemporaries from a bull with proven EPDs :tiphat:

George
 

KNERSIE

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SRBeef":25yxf5tf said:
NR, OK if there was a drought and his dam was maybe a BCS 2 or 3 at birth and short on milk up through 205 days, was he put on feed at day 206 and stuffed with silage etc up to day 365?

If so which is the only way I think he can have a 3.95 ADG what does that tell me about that bull? What will be the BW and WW of his calves? I don't think the numbers then can mean much of anything.

I don't think the real genetics of this bull in "normal" conditions will be known until he has a bunch of calves on the ground. Unless "normal" conditions for the user is a skinny cow then dump the calf at weaning into a very rich diet feedlot program.

Thanks for the reply.

Jim

Nothing different from any other bull out there, atleast with this one you know what can happen in a feedlot situation.

Those type of WW is normal for me, not because a lack of growthability or a lack of milk, but because a lack of grazing or a lack of ideal growing conditions like your cattle experience. My showstring has WWs that can challenge any herd and that is usually after being fed for just two months. Don't ever underestimate compensatory gain.

My only concern in the case of these bulls would be if they weaned quite a bit lighter than their contemporaries I would question the milking ability they would pass on, but if they were in range with the rest of the herd I would not be hesitant to use that kind of genetics. In the cattle world every weight needs to be associated with an index in a proper contemporary group to have any use at all.
 

Herefords.US

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KNERSIE":1hv6g285 said:
My only concern in the case of these bulls would be if they weaned quite a bit lighter than their contemporaries I would question the milking ability they would pass on, but if they were in range with the rest of the herd I would not be hesitant to use that kind of genetics. In the cattle world every weight needs to be associated with an index in a proper contemporary group to have any use at all.

From the Red Angus web-site:

MUSHRUSH LOCK 'N' LOAD U213 - WW index 107%

MUSHRUSH IMPRESSIVE CA U236 - WW Index 120%

George
 

dun

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Herefords.US":32zds5w5 said:
KNERSIE":32zds5w5 said:
My only concern in the case of these bulls would be if they weaned quite a bit lighter than their contemporaries I would question the milking ability they would pass on, but if they were in range with the rest of the herd I would not be hesitant to use that kind of genetics. In the cattle world every weight needs to be associated with an index in a proper contemporary group to have any use at all.

From the Red Angus web-site:

MUSHRUSH LOCK 'N' LOAD U213 - WW index 107%

MUSHRUSH IMPRESSIVE CA U236 - WW Index 120%

George
Thanks, saved me the effort. In every breed there are bulls with offspring that wean moderatly to light and really grow as yearlings. Same with little 50 pound births that wean at 700. They're available
 

KNERSIE

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Herefords.US":7k0fem11 said:
KNERSIE":7k0fem11 said:
My only concern in the case of these bulls would be if they weaned quite a bit lighter than their contemporaries I would question the milking ability they would pass on, but if they were in range with the rest of the herd I would not be hesitant to use that kind of genetics. In the cattle world every weight needs to be associated with an index in a proper contemporary group to have any use at all.

From the Red Angus web-site:

MUSHRUSH LOCK 'N' LOAD U213 - WW index 107%

MUSHRUSH IMPRESSIVE CA U236 - WW Index 120%

George

Thanks
 

Herefords.US

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KNERSIE":3v2p3cek said:
Herefords.US":3v2p3cek said:
KNERSIE":3v2p3cek said:
My only concern in the case of these bulls would be if they weaned quite a bit lighter than their contemporaries I would question the milking ability they would pass on, but if they were in range with the rest of the herd I would not be hesitant to use that kind of genetics. In the cattle world every weight needs to be associated with an index in a proper contemporary group to have any use at all.

From the Red Angus web-site:

MUSHRUSH LOCK 'N' LOAD U213 - WW index 107%

MUSHRUSH IMPRESSIVE CA U236 - WW Index 120%

George

Thanks

The piece missing is the size of the contemporary groups. I wish they also included that in the database where you could see it. Now that they've got EPDs, I guess there's too few of us that want to see the actual performance data to bother with supplying all of it.

George
 

oakcreekfarms

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The actuals mean very little to me without ratios to show where that weight actually placed them within the contemporary group. Obviously that is a low WW, however if it ratios him at 105% then you can start to place an expectation on what he will do for you. An 80lb BW is moderate, unless it ratios a calf at 110%
 

SRBeef

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Thanks all for the education. In my small herd "group" a 486 lb WW gets him steered, not sold for 22k!

Jim
 

KNERSIE

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oakcreekfarms":3svtbu2o said:
The actuals mean very little to me without ratios to show where that weight actually placed them within the contemporary group. Obviously that is a low WW, however if it ratios him at 105% then you can start to place an expectation on what he will do for you. An 80lb BW is moderate, unless it ratios a calf at 110%

Next time read the entire thread.......? ;-) :lol2:
 
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