Off the chart!

[Brandonm22]

Weaning weight has more to do with available groceries than it does with genetics.

Nope. The yhave to have the genetics to beneift from the groceries. You can pound feed to a calf and if it isn;t in it's genetic make up you will still end up with a dink.

True, but comparing two bulls raised on different ranches based on their own ACTUAL weaning weights tells me next to nothing about which one is the growthier.

 

[SRBeef]

Don't worry Jim. Just trust the EPDS they are are "good as gold".

Who said anything in this thread about EPD's?

My question was trying to understand the abrupt change (doubling, from about 2.0 to 4.0 lb/day) in Average Daily Gain (ADG) of the U213 bull from pre-weaning to post-weaning. And I don't understand the quote in the original post about "with 205 day wieghts that are off the chart"

I guess the answer I am being given is that this ADG of about 4 is "compensatory gain" from a sparse first 205 days. It doesn't seem like adjustments etc significantly affect the fact the ADG doubled.

Ok, I'll accept that answer from Knersie and others. I'm trying to figure out how to get some of that type gain for my own. And I am not challenging anyone else's numbers, just trying to understand them.

I still don't understand why a 205 day WW of 486 lb is "off the chart" but that's ok, let's move on.

I do however think it is important to know how a bull was raised. Ideally I want a bull raised in a similar way as I will be raising his offspring .

Jim

 

[vclavin]

My mind is not made up about anything here at all. I am still struggling to understand how a bull goes from bw 56 to ww 486 to yw 1118 and from an adg near 2.0 to an adg near 4.0. This is visually a very impressive bull. He would still be impressive at say 80 - 650 - 1118. 56 lb is a tiny bull calf. 486 even adj is an average bull calf at weaning. How does he get to a spectacular 1118 at 365 days except on some equally spectacular feed program which may not be at all like what most of his calves are likely to see. Knersie are you telling me this metamorphasis at 206 to 365 days is reasonably possible under realistic conditions?

I was looking at the Mushrush/Beckton catalog today and I believe I saw the adjusted
yearling weight of the bull in question to be 971 or 991 lbs.

Here is the data from the association.

http://search.redangus.org/animal/id/1295159#/animal/1295159

His data was BW WW YW %IMF REA FAT 58 491 971 2.40 11.57 0.31
Don't actually know his days of age at weaning may have been as little as 160, he was obviously fed well to another unknown age to get his yearling, with out the actual age #'s it is hard to do calculations of actual ADG between WW and YW. This was the dams second calf so their was some additional weight added for the adjustment. So one could surmise an actual WADG of right at 2 lbs/day. If his actual age was only 160 days at weaning and he was weighed for his yearling weight at 365 days he would of had 205 days to gain around 480 lbs, which mean an ADG of 2.34 lbs a day. Not an unrealistic scenario.

Doesn't look like he's much for carcass quality, couln't even reach choice with .31 " of fat. Wouldn't make a very tasty carcass no matter how fast or slow he grows!.
Valerie

 

[dun]

SRBEEF, you want compensatory gain there is ony one way to get it. Underfeed till weaning and then give them a decent ration

 

[Dylan Biggs]

Don't worry Jim. Just trust the EPDS they are are "good as gold".

Who said anything in this thread about EPD's?

My question was trying to understand the abrupt change (doubling, from about 2.0 to 4.0 lb/day) in Average Daily Gain (ADG) of the U213 bull from pre-weaning to post-weaning. And I don't understand the quote in the original post about "with 205 day wieghts that are off the chart"

I guess the answer I am being given is that this ADG of about 4 is "compensatory gain" from a sparse first 205 days. It doesn't seem like adjustments etc significantly affect the fact the ADG doubled.

Ok, I'll accept that answer from Knersie and others. I'm trying to figure out how to get some of that type gain for my own. And I am not challenging anyone else's numbers, just trying to understand them.

I still don't understand why a 205 day WW of 486 lb is "off the chart" but that's ok, let's move on.

I do however think it is important to know how a bull was raised. Ideally I want a bull raised in a similar way as I will be raising his offspring .



Jim

Jim, 205 day WW does not neccesarily mean he was wieghed and or weaned at 205 days or went on post wean ration at day 206 days. If a person has 200 head of calves that need to be weaned, chances are you are going to wean them as an entire bunch and wiegh them all the same day either just before or after weaning. They all have a wieght but they will vary in actual age that is why they adjust them to a constant age. With the 160 day age at weaning and wieghing scenario you wouldn't even need to push the calf hard to get him to 971 adj 365 day wieght.

In terms of the Title it was to get people to look at the post and compared to SAV it is off the other end of the chart. :cboy:

 

[WichitaLineMan]

I don't think Jim's the sharpest knife in the drawer.

 

[TexasBred]

I don't think Jim's the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Neither are you. :lol2: :lol2: :banana:

 

[SRBeef]

I don't think Jim's the sharpest knife in the drawer.

WLM, you must have been talking to my wife! ;-)

I may not have a large herd but I do realize each animal is not the same age at weaning therefore the need for adjustments. I use Cattlemax and may not be "the sharpest knife in the drawer" but do understand adjustments.

I also own a scale, weigh my cattle frequently and have a pretty good handle on weights as my cattle grow and the ADG at various points, at least in my system.

Jim

 

[Cowdirt]

I don't think Jim's the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Hey now! Jim's a nice guy. Don't try to turn him in to an axhole like some on here.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Jim is a nice guy for sure. He just don't quite understand how pampered his cows are.

 

[WichitaLineMan]

I don't think Jim's the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Neither are you. :lol2: :lol2: :banana:

No but at least I'm not a plastic spork like some of the posters here!

 

[TexasBred]

I don't think Jim's the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Neither are you. :lol2: :lol2: :banana:

No but at least I'm not a plastic spork like some of the posters here!

Shouldn't you be out taking cow pictures?? Get some of'em grazing that broom grass. Both of'em if you can.

 

[WichitaLineMan]

Neither are you. :lol2: :lol2: :banana:

No but at least I'm not a plastic spork like some of the posters here!

Shouldn't you be out taking cow pictures?? Get some of'em grazing that broom grass. Both of'em if you can.

 

[oakcreekfarms]

That was totally uncalled for!!

And no I don't agree with Jim, regardless of what you believe comments like that should be left off this forum.

 

[WichitaLineMan]

PUBLIC APOLOGY TO JIM.

Although I question some of Jim's thoughts, my original post was a jab at him "not getting" the "off the charts" phrase as being sarcastic not anything to do with his cattle!

As for a certain other poster here, I'm just going to let sleeping dogs lie with him he is not worth my time.

 

[Herefords.US]

Jim .......just don't quite understand how pampered his cows are.

:nod: :nod: :lol2:

George

 

[thommoos]

Off the chart, ha , do not take this offensive please you angus do not know 205 and 365. The bulls I raise birth at less that 65, wean at over 600 at 205. with yearly weights of 1100. Now you may like pushing them on feed but wake up and smell the beef, Lokk at a good beefmaster or Sanat gertrudis. 6 essentials

 

[SRBeef]

no text

 

[TexasBred]

PUBLIC APOLOGY TO JIM.

Although I question some of Jim's thoughts, my original post was a jab at him "not getting" the "off the charts" phrase as being sarcastic not anything to do with his cattle!

As for a certain other poster here, I'm just going to let sleeping dogs lie with him he is not worth my time.

Don't think the other poster gives a ratz azz what you do. :!:

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Off the chart, ha , do not take this offensive please you angus do not know 205 and 365. The bulls I raise birth at less that 65, wean at over 600 at 205. with yearly weights of 1100. Now you may like pushing them on feed but wake up and smell the beef, Lokk at a good beefmaster or Sanat gertrudis. 6 essentials

that's great,, but take those bull's up to Montana or the Dakota's?? those 6 essentials suddenly become ''1'' please lord if i can only make it another day,, im headed back to cotton country :cowboy: