Off the chart!

[Herefords.US]

I know almost nothing about Red Angus, but aren't these bulls from the same line that Julian has?

Edited to add: And it always pizzes me off when I go to one of these "other breed" assn's website and find it easier to navigate and find what I want than our AHA web-site.

George

 

[angusdave63]

here in indiana we had a dry late summer and fall my weaned calves were the worst i had weaned in years but 90 days on feed and good hay and they were weighing close to 800 so i know if conditions are right they will really grow David

 

[showing71]

I know almost nothing about Red Angus, but aren't these bulls from the same line that Julian has?

George

A large amount of the U.S. RA bulls that are low BW stem from the Beckton line, so yes.

 

[redcowsrule33]

Thanks all for the education. In my small herd "group" a 486 lb WW gets him steered, not sold for 22k!

Jim

I think, Jim, that most of us would like to see how our cattle would perform on your pastures, which from what I have seen are exceptional compared to most. Mushrush's pastures couldn't look like yours with a couple tons of nitrogen/acre under irrigation. Southern Wisconsin's heavy soils make great grazing pastures!

 

[SRBeef]

I appreciate what you are saying and understand that cattle are raised in many different environments. I do think that rotational grazing really helps get the most out of pastures.

I did see some parched ground in Indiana last fall that looked like it had been grazed to a golf green. However it seems to me like that would be the time and place for supplements rather than graze the ground bare.

Apologies if my steer comment sounded offensive. Thi is a good argument for whole herd reporting and also buying bulls from folks with conditions and Methods like your own. What would the above bull's 1118 lb YW have been on "normal" pasture?

 

[Northern Rancher]

Their yearling weight might not of changed just where in the year they gained it.

 

[KNERSIE]

What would the above bull's 1118 lb YW have been on "normal" pasture?

Probably not much different because compensatory gain would have made up for the slower early growth once the bull was put on feed.

 

[dun]

A steer wwe sold just had his weigh in for the fair. He's been getting prairie hay and a cople of pounds of 13% grain a day since weaning. BW 72 pounds, WW (178 days) adj 679, YW (314 days adj) 1027
Just information, that's all

 

[TexasBred]

What would the above bull's 1118 lb YW have been on "normal" pasture?

Probably not much different because compensatory gain would have made up for the slower early growth once the bull was put on feed.

4 lbs. per day for 160 days?? Must be some awesome pasture. :???:

 

[3waycross]

My only concern in the case of these bulls would be if they weaned quite a bit lighter than their contemporaries I would question the milking ability they would pass on, but if they were in range with the rest of the herd I would not be hesitant to use that kind of genetics. In the cattle world every weight needs to be associated with an index in a proper contemporary group to have any use at all.

From the Red Angus web-site:

MUSHRUSH LOCK 'N' LOAD U213 - WW index 107%

MUSHRUSH IMPRESSIVE CA U236 - WW Index 120%

George

I freely admit to not being the brightest bulb on the tree but math is math and I cannot for the life of me see how you can ratio that high with those weaning weights. I also would like to see THAT contemporary group numbers.

One thing I have heard from people who should know is that the Bectons and possibly Mushrush just flat out starve their cattle. That being one of the reasons that the survivors have such great ME , epd's. Maybe that is what caused those weaning weights. and like Knersie said the compensatory gain from ww to yw

 

[Northern Rancher]

Never heard that about Beckton's before.

 

[sandvalley]

really good looking bulls to me, is the cattle family behind these bulls know for good udders and temperament?

 

[goodbeef]

Haven't heard that Beckton's or Mushrush starve their cattle, however they do breed for lower maintanance requirements. I have not visited the ranch, but have talked to Joe Mushrush several times, and he seems to be a very honest man that will tell you what he thinks will work. Have a group of cows I bought from him sight unseen and have been very happy with them. Didnt realize how big some of my cows were untill I bought a group from him. Calves perform really well, and the cows are easy fleshing for sure.

 

[3waycross]

Maybe I should qualify that STARVE statement. What the fella said to me was compared to almost anyone he knows they feed next to nothing. I didn't mean they STARVE as in ABUSE their cows.

 

[TexasBred]

Maybe I should qualify that STARVE statement. What the fella said to me was compared to almost anyone he knows they feed next to nothing. I didn't mean they STARVE as in ABUSE their cows.

Need to watch your language 3way. You probably meant "low imput cost as well as volume". I'd still love to watch that bull put on that 4 lbs. per day and see how he did it or wonder if the guy just pulled that yearling wt. out of his ass.

 

[3waycross]

Talked to a pretty sharp RA fella tonight about these two bulls and those weaning weights. He pointed out something that I missed completely. They are both FALL calves. He says and I agree with him that the time of year they were born could easily have a 100 pound effect on WW. Especially in a very low input herd situation.

It still doesn't explain the ratios though. I am not able to suspend my disbelief enuf to imagine how dinky the rest of that contemporary group must have been.

 

[KNERSIE]

What would the above bull's 1118 lb YW have been on "normal" pasture?

Probably not much different because compensatory gain would have made up for the slower early growth once the bull was put on feed.

4 lbs. per day for 160 days?? Must be some awesome pasture. :???:

I think one of us misunderstood the question.

I said to gain that on feed isn't a tall order, what I think Jim meant was what the yearling weights would have been if they were raised from birth to WW on 'his "normal"' pasture (as opposed to dry low quality pasture) and still were fed the same from weaning to yearling age.

 

[SRBeef]

I don't mean to be critical of this bull. He is obviously a feedlot bull.

If his cows can be raised and his calves weaned on sparse inputs and then explode on a feedlot and if that is what buyers are looking for then here's your bull.

If someone is looking for a grass bull this one is a shot in the dark, at least that's the way I interpret the numbers.

A matter of matching the bull and how and where he has been raised to what the buyers intended use is, or so it seems. I personally see cattle needing to be raised on more grass and less feed in the economic climate of the future. jmho.

Jim

 

[smnherf]

What would the above bull's 1118 lb YW have been on "normal" pasture?

Probably not much different because compensatory gain would have made up for the slower early growth once the bull was put on feed.

4 lbs. per day for 160 days?? Must be some awesome pasture. :???:

I think that calculateing ADG based on adjusted 205 day weights and adjusted YW is a dangerous game that may very well lead to false conclusions. If the animal was weighed at 250 days, and on poor feed, his adj WW may have been adjusted down considerably from what it actually was. The way the formula is calculated, younger animals tend to get adjusted up more than what they actually gain whereas the older animal gets punished for not gaining as much as the formula thinks they should have gained. Same way on yearling data. Most guys who want to brag about their adj WW push them hard and then weigh them as young as possible.

The AI company apparently has confidence in the data or they wouldn't have made the purchase. I am not saying that I agree with everything that AI companies do.

 

[Northern Rancher]

Not alot of salebarns will let you sell on a computer adjusted extrapolation either. Weaning weight is one of the most overused selection tools available when compared from herd to herd.