molasses/sulfur toxicity/protein tub

[NC Liz 2]

TexasBred wrote Re: molasses/sulfur toxicity

Please note that the NRC sulfur level is the recommended level for the TOTAL DIET. What percentage of the "Total Diet" do you think the feed from the tub represents? Just to be on the very conservative side assume she eats 2 lbs. of the molasses tub and 20 lbs. of hay. You can do the math.

Once again it is obvious you are attempting to shoot the messenger instead of the message.
If you are seriously having problems grasping the concept of sulfur being toxic after all the write ups SL and I have posted, I suggest you direct your questions to "Steve Ensley, Iowa State University veterinary toxicologist and diagnostician".
http://beefmagazine.com/pasture-range/c ... nge-cattle

As for your question above.
From reading some of your other posts on this subject, you should know you have furnished insignificant information to do any math, but I will take it as far as I can now.
It is a known fact that the vast majority of beef cattle get a sufficient amount of sulfur ( .3 - .5% ) from their daily diet of water, grass and hay and most are supplement with either granular mineral or mineral blocks should a deficiency be know.
Therefor, any additional supplemental feeding, containing sulfur, is in excess of the daily requirement.
Now if you would furnish me the brand name and product ID of the protein tub of which you speak, I would be happy to see if I can take your math question a little further.
Liz

 

[cross_7]

Sometimes I feel like Jesse James
Still tryin' to make a name.
Knowing nothing's gonna change what I am.

 

[cross_7]

[youtube]F9f_HHV5Pc4[/youtube]

 

[NC Liz 2]

FYI; & interesting.
Polio or not ?-----------Pics
Sir Loin » Nov 10, 2012
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=80340&p=964686&hilit=polio+like+symptoms#p964686

I have seen no documentation that this is an indication/symptomatic of polio, but I have seen it in all the animals with the same symptoms as Yoyo.

"Steve Ensley, Iowa State University veterinary toxicologist and diagnostician".
May 3, 2013

A new form of polio (polioencephalomalacia), resulting from cattle consuming high levels of sulfur

http://beefmagazine.com/pasture-range/c ... nge-cattle

Sounds to me like SL was on the right track in Nov. 2012!
Liz

 

[cross_7]

Am I ever gonna change
Will I always stay the same
If I say one thing,
Then I do the other
It's the same old song,
That goes on forever
Am I ever gonna change
I'm the only one to blame
When I think I'm right,
I wind up wrong
It's a futile fight,
Gone on too long

 

[backhoeboogie]

THis whole subject reminds me of someone advising me to add lime. What the heck? Lime plants all around me. Lime leaching out of the limestone hills.

Now I am supposed to read and comprehend someone from Iowa State? What does he know about my pastures? What does he know about sulfur levels on my ground?

If you got bad hay. cows need protein. If the cows are sustaining or gaining on the hay they are getting, you don't need protein tubs or syrup tubs.

The hay loss thread never did talk about the type of hay, climate, or anything else of value. Just more of the attempted shock affect.

Oh. I have not had one sustain a prolapse either.

Can we just carry on and talk about sensible things?

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Anyone going to tune in to watch the Blues get a win against the Coyotes tonight?

 

[TexasBred]

TexasBred wrote Re: molasses/sulfur toxicity

Please note that the NRC sulfur level is the recommended level for the TOTAL DIET. What percentage of the "Total Diet" do you think the feed from the tub represents? Just to be on the very conservative side assume she eats 2 lbs. of the molasses tub and 20 lbs. of hay. You can do the math.

Once again it is obvious you are attempting to shoot the messenger instead of the message.
If you are seriously having problems grasping the concept of sulfur being toxic after all the write ups SL and I have posted, I suggest you direct your questions to "Steve Ensley, Iowa State University veterinary toxicologist and diagnostician".
http://beefmagazine.com/pasture-range/c ... nge-cattle

As for your question above.
From reading some of your other posts on this subject, you should know you have furnished insignificant information to do any math, but I will take it as far as I can now.
It is a known fact that the vast majority of beef cattle get a sufficient amount of sulfur ( .3 - .5% ) from their daily diet of water, grass and hay and most are supplement with either granular mineral or mineral blocks should a deficiency be know.
Therefor, any additional supplemental feeding, containing sulfur, is in excess of the daily requirement.
Now if you would furnish me the brand name and product ID of the protein tub of which you speak, I would be happy to see if I can take your math question a little further.
Liz

As I said....You can do the math. You must figure consumption into the equation SL/NC or everything is useless. Look at the sulfur guarantees on those tubs then consider consumption. Do the same with the remainder of the diet which typically will be from 20 to 40 lbs. per head per day. The sulfur level in the water article would be excessive only because there is the potential for the cow to drink as much as 40-50 gallons of it per day. If she only drank 4-5 gallons it would be harmless. The same for the molasses tubs. The consumption on those tubs is a very small percentage of the total diet. This applies to every nutrient density contained in anything an animal may eat. That is why we "balance" rations. To ensure that we have no shortage, no overages as well as compensate for those things that tend to be antagonistic towards other elements. It's a bit more complex than downloading the OSU ration calculator or cutting the tag off something and claiming that it is deadly. Dr. Ensley ( a veterinarian rather than a nutritionist) more or less is attempting to tell you the same thing IF you can comprehend.

 

[J&D Cattle]

Anyone going to tune in to watch the Blues get a win against the Coyotes tonight?

Do you bleed BLUE sim?

I'll watch a bit, they are playing well this year.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Anyone going to tune in to watch the Blues get a win against the Coyotes tonight?

Do you bleed BLUE sim?

I'll watch a bit, they are playing well this year.

They have been doing a lot better this year. Stanley maybe? :lol2:

 

[J&D Cattle]

Anyone going to tune in to watch the Blues get a win against the Coyotes tonight?

Do you bleed BLUE sim?

I'll watch a bit, they are playing well this year.

They have been doing a lot better this year. Stanley maybe? :lol2:

I would love that. Trying to get some tickets from the local radio station to take my boy.

 

[NC Liz 2]

TexasBred
Here is the product information sheet for a Crystalex tub, what is the sulfur content of this protein tub?
Liz
Crystalyx BGF-30
http://www.crystalyx.com/products/611_bgf-30.aspx

Crude Protein, Min
30.0%
NPN, Max
12.0%
Crude Fat, Min
4.0%
Crude Fiber, Max
3.0%
Calcium, Min
2.0%
Calcium, Max
2.5%
Phosphorus, Min
2.0%
Salt, Min
none added
Magnesium, Min
0.5%
Potassium, Min
2.0%
Cobalt, Min
3.3 ppm
Copper, Min
330 ppm
Iodine, Min
17 ppm
Manganese, Min
1,330 ppm
Selenium, Min
6.0 ppm
Zinc, Min
1,000 ppm
Vitamin A, Min
80,000 IU/Lb
Vitamin D-3, Min
8,000 IU/Lb
Vitamin E, Min
100 IU/Lb

INGREDIENTS Molasses products, hydrolyzed feather meal, processed grain by-products, monocalcium phosphate, dicalcium phosphate, urea, hydrolyzed vegetable oil, calcium carbonate, magnesium oxide, manganous oxide, manganese sulfate, zinc oxide, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, copper chloride, ethylenediamine dihydroiodide, calcium iodate, cobalt carbonate, sodium selenite, vitamin A acetate, vitamin D-3 supplement, vitamin E supplement.

 

[TexasBred]

TexasBred
Here is the product information sheet for a Crystalex tub, what is the sulfur content of this protein tub?
Liz
Crystalyx BGF-30
http://www.crystalyx.com/products/611_bgf-30.aspx

Crude Protein, Min
30.0%
NPN, Max
12.0%
Crude Fat, Min
4.0%
Crude Fiber, Max
3.0%
Calcium, Min
2.0%
Calcium, Max
2.5%
Phosphorus, Min
2.0%
Salt, Min
none added
Magnesium, Min
0.5%
Potassium, Min
2.0%
Cobalt, Min
3.3 ppm
Copper, Min
330 ppm
Iodine, Min
17 ppm
Manganese, Min
1,330 ppm
Selenium, Min
6.0 ppm
Zinc, Min
1,000 ppm
Vitamin A, Min
80,000 IU/Lb
Vitamin D-3, Min
8,000 IU/Lb
Vitamin E, Min
100 IU/Lb

INGREDIENTS Molasses products, hydrolyzed feather meal, processed grain by-products, monocalcium phosphate, dicalcium phosphate, urea, hydrolyzed vegetable oil, calcium carbonate, magnesium oxide, manganous oxide, manganese sulfate, zinc oxide, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, copper chloride, ethylenediamine dihydroiodide, calcium iodate, cobalt carbonate, sodium selenite, vitamin A acetate, vitamin D-3 supplement, vitamin E supplement.

As you can easily see it has no guarantees for sulfur, however, I hope it is a minimum of 1-1.5% for synthesis of microbial protein from dietary urea or inorganic sulphate. In sulphur deficient diets, S-supplementation improves performance by enhancing bacterial protein synthesis in the rumen and improving the amino acid balance.

 

[NC Liz 2]

TexasBred
Here is the product information sheet for a Sweetpro tub product, with the sulfur content of the Fibermate 20 protein tub being a minimum of 1.50% Who knows what the maximum content is!!
They do not list the ingredient but do state " no molasses".
Now add that to the natural sulfur of (.3 - .4% ) they ingest daily and you have 1.90%.
Now doesn't that sseem a little excessive to you?
http://www.sweetpro.com/beef-fibermate20.html
Liz

 

[NC Liz 2]

Now here is another interesting fact about both Crystalex and Sweetpro.
They both say:
Crystlex: "WARNING: This product, which contains added copper, should not be fed to sheep or any species that have a low tolerance to supplemental copper."
Sweetpro: "
CAUTION: Contains 600 ppm copper • DO NOT FEED TO SHEEP • Do not use in association with another feed containing supplemental selenium."
Q, Why is that? Why are they both adding additional copper?
A. Because it is a well known fact that excess sulfur blocks the absorption of copper and they are trying to correct a copper deficiency by adding more copper.
Does it work?
No, not if you see " red saddle " on your cattle.

Now you have a situation where you are dealing with excess sulfur and a copper deficiency in your cattle's diet and no amount of protein will/can cure that.
Liz

 

[NC Liz 2]

Another interesting fact from:
http://beefmagazine.com/pasture-range/c ... nge-cattle

Watch for symptoms
Ensley says the first clinical sign to watch for is blindness.

Could this blindness also include " white eye " in both born and unborn calves ? :???:
Liz

 

[pricefarm]

Sheep has a low tolerance for copper all cattle minerals that I see also says do don't feed to sheep. I know people who have feed molasses tub or licks for year and years and has had nothing but good luck from them.

 

[Anonymous]

And flounder could just be a fish too

 

[sim.-ang.king]

My glasses bills are really high because of all my blind calves.

 

[NC Liz 2]

Pricefarm
I to have feed protein tubs with success ,but that was before they were full of Ethanol by-products full of sulfur.
If you can find one that lists the sulfur content at a reasonable content, please let me know the brand name.
As for " knowing people who feed tubs for years with no problems" I also know someone who fed Ethanol By-products and won a law suit in appellate court because 80 of his cows died.
See: Newman v. A.E. Staley MFG, Co. ( Alabama ).

So I think we need to stick to what the professionals have to say on the suject, rather then our own experiences.
Liz