Max price on a Bull for commercial use

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Amo

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No, he was bidding against someone else to get the minimum amount he wanted. After the bull basically no-saled, he offered him to us after the sale because we had shown earlier interest. I know he was deceptive in his bidding practice, but it wasn't against us.
Ya, we all know an auction is supposed to be an auction. Guess if I sell something at a consignment auction I put a reserve on it. I don't have a bid being pulled out if its dirt cheap or to get a bid....yes theres a fine line there. You run me after the price gets up there a ways, thats a different story.
 

Nkline

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Does anyone here know what hertiability actually is and how it's defined?

How hertiable do you think each of these traits are?
Cows having 4 legs.
Cows having 4 teats
Mature size
Color of hair
Leg number- is hard to run heritability on because of low variance in the population
Teat number- I would guess at moderate to high
Mature height- is .59 via. Aaa
Mature weight- is .35 via. Aaa
Hair color is largely simple genetics

Heritability is basically difference caused by genetics.
 

farmerjan

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Not sure on percentages, but I know that they even rate the heritability of things like disposition, and teat length and now the effects of certain bulls on daughter survivability, and things like somatic cell count in daughters ... in dairy bulls from AI sire groups. So... heritability is pretty well proven.
 

Nesikep

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Not sure on percentages, but I know that they even rate the heritability of things like disposition, and teat length and now the effects of certain bulls on daughter survivability, and things like somatic cell count in daughters ... in dairy bulls from AI sire groups. So... heritability is pretty well proven.
It's counterintutitive, but heritabliity is how much genetic variation there is in the population, so cows having 4 legs is NOT a heritable trait because pretty much all cows have 4 legs, cows having 4 teats, well, there's lots with 5 or 6, so there's a bit of variation there and thus is a slightly heritable trait.
Getting to mature size and color of coat, milking ability, etc there's much more variation and thus it's a more heritable trait..

This does not mean that selecting a bull being best in a 90% heritable trait will mean that 90% of his calves will have that trait
 

Son of Butch

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heritability: the proportion of an observed variation in a particular trait
(such as height) that can be attributed to inherited genetics factors in contrast
to environmental factors.... (Webster dictionary)

No trait is 90% heritable, in Angus mature height has the highest heritability at 59% SC 48% birth weight 46% WW 28% marbling 48% carcass weight 44% and Milk is the lowest at 12%

It seems people sometimes confuse epd accuracy with the heritability of the epd trait.
 
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Nesikep

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heritability: the proportion of an observed variation in a particular trait
(such as height) that can be attributed to inherited genetics factors in contrast
to environmental factors.... (Webster dictionary)

No trait is 90% heritable, in Angus mature height has the highest heritability at 59% SC 48% birth weight 46% WW 28% marbling 48% carcass weight 44% and Milk is the lowest at 12%

It seems people sometimes confuse epd accuracy with the heritability of the epd trait.
I just pulled a number out of my arse for that, wasn't intended as a concrete example

Here's another video I just watched
 

Lee VanRoss

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It can run up to +20 % variation in humans and assume (there is an opening for someone) a similar number for most of the
higher species. A big box of metaphorical chocolates!
 

Nkline

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It's counterintutitive, but heritabliity is how much genetic variation there is in the population, so cows having 4 legs is NOT a heritable trait because pretty much all cows have 4 legs, cows having 4 teats, well, there's lots with 5 or 6, so there's a bit of variation there and thus is a slightly heritable trait.
Getting to mature size and color of coat, milking ability, etc there's much more variation and thus it's a more heritable trait..

This does not mean that selecting a bull being best in a 90% heritable trait will mean that 90% of his calves will have that trait

No genetic variation is not heritability.

You can have highly heritable traits with low variance, or the inverse, or low heritability traits with high variance or the inverse... etc. etc..

As breeders the easiest traits to make progress selecting for have high heritability, high variance, and are easy to accurately measure.

Animals will also produce different distributions of progeny, some will have more standouts than others, but that doesn’t mean the particular animal will have a higher epd than an animal that throws more just above average progeny.
 

elkwc

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Some of you have asked how many cows The Bull would breed. We typically run 1 bull per 25 cows. I think that’d be fairly normal rate. And we don’t always get as many years out of a bull as we’d like but I think on average we’d get 4 breeding seasons before it’s time for new genetics. So 100 calves x $40 bucks =4000
Plus $2000 for cull price=$6000
Or the 5 calf rule would be approx:
5x1300= $6500

also I’m not sure if it makes any difference to some if it’s a terminal sire or more of a maternal.
What weight and where are you selling the steer calves @ that they bring $1,300.00? Around here even the PB breeders uae $700.00-$800.00 as the base price times 5.
 

elkwc

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I have bid up to $6,500.00 a few times the last 2 years and never got any of them. It also depends on age what I will pay. I'm not willing to pay over 4,000 for a yearling. And 5,000 for a 2 y/o. Recently bought a proven 6 y/o a PB breeder was done with. He has daughters in production. If I get one calf crop of 20 calves he will be cheaper than an unproven $6,500 yearling that lasts 2-3 years. Some of the best bulls we've used recently are home raised bulls. I've also bought bred reg cows and retained the better bull calves. We are commercial but try to improve our herd. Tried AIing once with no luck. Currently considering trying it again on around 15 hd 10 of which are replacements. I've got all kinds of opinions including those from a friend who is an AI tech and has taught it. They adked why I would consider it and running the cows through the chute at least 4 times when what I'm doing is working. Othersfeel it would be a good move. If I do it will only be a small group until we see how it works. My thought is 3 of the replacements are daughters of our heifer bull. Also thought I would try some of the bloodlines I like that either I can't afford or can't find. Still trying to find a tech and nail down costs. If by AIing a small group I get 3-4 replacements and one bull it will be cheap. We run 100 cows.
 

3waycross

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"...but your bull is 1/2 of the current calf crop and a good one is 2/3 of your replacements in value if he is a good one." A repeated fallacy. The female delivers mitochondrial DNA and the male does not. A good cow herd can prop up a mediocre bull. Not all calves are 50/50 or else genetic testing would not be needed and EPDs would be of very little functional use.
The rules of genetics don't change because you want them to. Each parent contributes 50% to the offspring. That in fact doesn't mean that they give each offspring the same 50%. If you want proof then just go to a bigtime bull sale and inspect the results of a major league flush. They can be and are all over the place. Also when purchasing bulls for commercial herds you can greatly affect the replacements by selecting bulls with highly maternal EPD's. Such as Milk Plus or minus depending on the requirements of your environment, Stayability, and calving ease maternal.
 
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Josher

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What weight and where are you selling the steer calves @ that they bring $1,300.00? Around here even the PB breeders uae $700.00-$800.00 as the base price times 5.
Yes as silver mentioned that’d be in Canadian dollar. We ship our calves in Lloydminster, Sk. 6 weights in fall.
 

FungusProudKY31

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The rules of genetics don't change because you want them to. Each parent contributes 50% to the offspring. That in fact doesn't mean that they give each offspring the same 50%. If you want proof then just go to a bigtime bull sale and inspect the results of a major league flush. They can be and are all over the place. Also when purchasing bulls for commercial herds you can greatly affect the replacements by selecting bulls with highly maternal EPD's. Such as Milk Plus or minus depending on the requirements of your environment, Stayability, and calving ease maternal.
I still disagree.
 

W.B.

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I have bid up to $6,500.00 a few times the last 2 years and never got any of them. It also depends on age what I will pay. I'm not willing to pay over 4,000 for a yearling. And 5,000 for a 2 y/o. Recently bought a proven 6 y/o a PB breeder was done with. He has daughters in production. If I get one calf crop of 20 calves he will be cheaper than an unproven $6,500 yearling that lasts 2-3 years. Some of the best bulls we've used recently are home raised bulls. I've also bought bred reg cows and retained the better bull calves. We are commercial but try to improve our herd. Tried AIing once with no luck. Currently considering trying it again on around 15 hd 10 of which are replacements. I've got all kinds of opinions including those from a friend who is an AI tech and has taught it. They adked why I would consider it and running the cows through the chute at least 4 times when what I'm doing is working. Othersfeel it would be a good move. If I do it will only be a small group until we see how it works. My thought is 3 of the replacements are daughters of our heifer bull. Also thought I would try some of the bloodlines I like that either I can't afford or can't find. Still trying to find a tech and nail down costs. If by AIing a small group I get 3-4 replacements and one bull it will be cheap. We run 100 cows.
You don’t have to run cows down a chute 4 times to ai necessarily. If you have ability and time to heat detect once will do. With that said synchronization is very effective and cows that know their way down a chute stress very little in the process.
 

Nkline

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You don’t have to run cows down a chute 4 times to ai necessarily. If you have ability and time to heat detect once will do. With that said synchronization is very effective and cows that know their way down a chute stress very little in the process.
MGA synchronization programs might be an easy option too.
 
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