Longhorn cross

[Travlr]

Don't know what has caused this sudden hostility toward me the past few days. I won't lose much sleep over it, though. I just don't argue with pigeons like you. It is a waste of time. View attachment 23720

Someday you'll be able to get your thirteen year old grandson to explain it to you... when he grows up enough to understand it for himself.

I really hope you don't give him financial advice.

 

[simme]

I am learning a lot about CAB, but mostly from my own research.

I knew a guy whose father was a butcher. He told me his father could easily pick the best steak. Based on how easy the knife went through the meat as it was cut up. Realize that the USDA and CAB criteria are based on what you see. Not what you feel or taste. They are just an attempt to rate based on criteria that should be related to quality of eating experience.

CAB has 3 labels - CAB, CAB Prime and CAB Natural. CAB Prime has additional requirements beyond USDA Prime - sourced only from "A" maturity cattle and with a requirement for fine texture. CAB Natural has a requirement for no hormones or antibiotics. CAB website allows searches for stores and restaurants that sell/serve CAB beef. Looks like most major grocery chains do not sell CAB. Walmart of course has their own "angus" branded program.

USDA grades (select, choice, prime) existed before CAB and are not affected by CAB.

 

[gcreekrch]

It's also funny that your rebuttal to me is directed to 50/50, as though it saves you from talking to someone that can refute your lack of logic. Especially after that comment you made about the people on these fora that hide behind their screens.

I put old Warren on the ignore list. Hard for me to match wits with an unarmed person. I still envision Yosemite Sam.….. maybe crossed with Foghorn Leghorn…. If you can't dazzle with brilliance then baffle with bs…..

 

[Warren Allison]

I am learning a lot about CAB, but mostly from my own research.

I knew a guy whose father was a butcher. He told me his father could easily pick the best steak. Based on how easy the knife went through the meat as it was cut up. Realize that the USDA and CAB criteria are based on what you see. Not what you feel or taste. They are just an attempt to rate based on criteria that should be related to quality of eating experience.

CAB has 3 labels - CAB, CAB Prime and CAB Natural. CAB Prime has additional requirements beyond USDA Prime - sourced only from "A" maturity cattle and with a requirement for fine texture. CAB Natural has a requirement for no hormones or antibiotics. CAB website allows searches for stores and restaurants that sell/serve CAB beef. Looks like most major grocery chains do not sell CAB. Walmart of course has their own "angus" branded program.

USDA grades (select, choice, prime) existed before CAB and are not affected by CAB.

Yep. On the USDA webpages that talk about the history of how and why they developed the CAB guidelines, they say that there are 95 other certified angus programs, and 44 more certified programs, for a total of 140. There is a Certified Hereford Program, certified other breed programs, certified grass- fed programs, certified organic, etc. CB was just the first angus certified program and obviously the most successful. Their first guideline for the Angus was GL1. These have been revised many time. I think the last one, revised dec 2021 to allow red angus to be included, was GL83, if I remember right.

 

[Travlr]

I put old Warren on the ignore list. Hard for me to match wits with an unarmed person. I still envision Yosemite Sam.….. maybe crossed with Foghorn Leghorn…. If you can't dazzle with brilliance then baffle with bs…..

Ya know... most of his posts seem legitimate to me. But get a conversation started about CAB and he always seems to show up defending it. All while promoting corriente with Angus bulls on them. Defending black hides determining value in the marketplace, and arguing the discounted prices are deserved for anything but black hides with illogical arguments crafted to sound good if someone doesn't think about the logic involved. Has anyone considered that these forums might have shills writing to defend the CAB program? I mean, nothing he says about discounted prices makes sense if someone bothers to think about it...

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I totally understand what Warren is saying.
Go back a few years. ALL steers were scrutinized for any and all possible discounts (just like now). All #1 muscled steers were in the top category.
Then came CAB and Japan started paying a PREMIUM over and above the highest price paid that day for black hided cattle. I don't think we have the Japanese market any longer,, but CAB is a PREMIUM. The other top quality feeder steers (the whites, reds, etc. of equal quality to the blacks) are getting top dollar EXCEPT for the premium.
Junk calves, get DISCOUNTED. Top quality get top price, less the CAB premium.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I totally understand what Warren is saying.
Go back a few years. ALL steers were scrutinized for any and all possible discounts (just like now). All #1 muscled steers were in the top category.
Then came CAB and Japan started paying a PREMIUM over and above the highest price paid that day for black hided cattle. I don't think we have the Japanese market any longer,, but CAB is a PREMIUM. The other top quality feeder steers (the whites, reds, etc. of equal quality to the blacks) are getting top dollar EXCEPT for the premium.
Junk calves, get DISCOUNTED whether they are black or not. Top quality get top price, less the CAB premium.

 

[Travlr]

I totally understand what Warren is saying.
Go back a few years. ALL steers were scrutinized for any and all possible discounts (just like now). All #1 muscled steers were in the top category.
Then came CAB and Japan started paying a PREMIUM over and above the highest price paid that day for black hided cattle. I don't think we have the Japanese market any longer,, but CAB is a PREMIUM. The other top quality feeder steers (the whites, reds, etc. of equal quality to the blacks) are getting top dollar EXCEPT for the premium.
Junk calves, get DISCOUNTED. Top quality get top price, less the CAB premium.

Sorry... disagree that CAB is a premium when any color animal can be processed and end up as CAB labeled.

And the differences in dollars based on the color of hide is definitely not justified.

And beyond that the growing lack of genetic diversity is damaging to the industry.

 

[J+ Cattle]

I knew a guy whose father was a butcher. He told me his father could easily pick the best steak. Based on how easy the knife went through the meat as it was cut up. Realize that the USDA and CAB criteria are based on what you see. Not what you feel or taste. They are just an attempt to rate based on criteria that should be related to quality of eating experience.

I've had this same discussion with a butcher, he can tell the difference in tenderness when cutting up the meat. USDA grades like Choice or Prime are strictly for marbling, it can still be tough and well marbled. I know of no grading criteria for tenderness. The Angus Association doesn't publish an EPD for tenderness but it's a score on the HD50K DNA test that people use when registering an Angus bull. Why wouldn't they publish it as an EPD?

 

[Little Joe]

I've had this same discussion with a butcher, he can tell the difference in tenderness when cutting up the meat. USDA grades like Choice or Prime are strictly for marbling, it can still be tough and well marbled. I know of no grading criteria for tenderness. The Angus Association doesn't publish an EPD for tenderness but it's a score on the HD50K DNA test that people use when registering an Angus bull. Why wouldn't they publish it as an EPD?

Tenderness has more to do with a positive eating experience than marbling for sure. Don't misunderstand me, marbling is important but if it's tough, I despise eating a tough steak, I get tired of chewing on it.

 

[mwj]

Sorry... disagree that CAB is a premium when any color animal can be processed and end up as CAB labeled.

And the differences in dollars based on the color of hide is definitely not justified.

And beyond that the growing lack of genetic diversity is damaging to the industry.

Please tell us how that solid white steer meets CAB specs.

 

[50/50Farms]

Sorry... disagree that CAB is a premium when any color animal can be processed and end up as CAB labeled.

And the differences in dollars based on the color of hide is definitely not justified.

And beyond that the growing lack of genetic diversity is damaging to the industry.

I'm sorry, I put a lot of store by a lot of what you say, but that's BS and you know it.

 

[Silver]

Tenderness has more to do with a positive eating experience than marbling for sure. Don't misunderstand me, marbling is important but if it's tough, I despise eating a tough steak, I get tired of chewing on it.

I think just pricing out a beef tenderloin proves your point regarding tenderness as a determining factor in making a positive eating experience.

 

[50/50Farms]

I think just pricing out a beef tenderloin proves your point regarding tenderness as a determining factor in making a positive eating experience.

 

[Travlr]

Please tell us how that solid white steer meets CAB specs.

As said before... no one can tell what color a carcass-without-a-hide was when it walked through the slaughterhouse door and onto the kill floor. That a couple of thousand halves of beef with no hides, hanging in a cooler, are inspected for finish and yield (and maybe even tenderness)... and they worry about what color skin was on the animal days ago?

Are there really cattlemen that think every CAB labeled package is from an animal with a black hide? Really?

 

[50/50Farms]

As said before... no one can tell what color a carcass-without-a-hide was when it walked through the slaughterhouse door and onto the kill floor. That a couple of thousand halves of beef with no hides, hanging in a cooler, are inspected for finish and yield (and maybe even tenderness)... and they worry about what color skin was on the animal days ago?

Are there really cattlemen that think every CAB labeled package is from an animal with a black hide? Really?

You must have missed the ear part.

 

[Travlr]

I'm sorry, I put a lot of store by a lot of what you say, but that's BS and you know it.

Then tell me how...

 

[50/50Farms]

Then tell me

They grade with hide color in mind, that's why they cut the ear.

 

[Warren Allison]

As said before... no one can tell what color a carcass-without-a-hide was when it walked through the slaughterhouse door and onto the kill floor. That a couple of thousand halves of beef with no hides, hanging in a cooler, are inspected for finish and yield (and maybe even tenderness)... and they worry about what color skin was on the animal days ago?

Are there really cattlemen that think every CAB labeled package is from an animal with a black hide? Really?

The more you run that mouth, the stupider you look. Why not read the numerous links that I and several others have posted from USDA and other articles about it.? When a black animal that MIGHT could achieve CAB status steps on the kill floor, is hit with the bolt to kill it, is hoisted up and its hide peeled, it is stamped with and A, and/or its hocks are painted with a blue ink. Trained graders under USDA inspector's supervision, do this. When the carcass is sent to be graded, again by USDA inspectors, if it passes the ten requirements the USDA has set up, it will get the final go ahead to be certified Angus, and then graded either choice or prime. So yes, I, and most anyone else that has common sense and understands the process, are REALLY cattlemen and can say with absolute certainity that no damned white or red steer or heifer was marked CAB. Dude, put the pipe down!

 

[Warren Allison]

I totally understand what Warren is saying.
Go back a few years. ALL steers were scrutinized for any and all possible discounts (just like now). All #1 muscled steers were in the top category.
Then came CAB and Japan started paying a PREMIUM over and above the highest price paid that day for black hided cattle. I don't think we have the Japanese market any longer,, but CAB is a PREMIUM. The other top quality feeder steers (the whites, reds, etc. of equal quality to the blacks) are getting top dollar EXCEPT for the premium.
Junk calves, get DISCOUNTED. Top quality get top price, less the CAB premium.

Ecxctly!! And thank you