Longhorn cross

[Lee VanRoss]

Going on 9 pages and the CAB premise falls on its face on the basis there is no empirical verification that anyone can identify
the color of the cow by the taste of the meat. The more this is brought up on these forums the greater the chance that more
people will become aware of the fallacy in the logic of marketing hair color in lieu of actual quality.

The very idea that the color of the hair of a cow can be identified by the taste of the meat is one of the most Bidenesque
arguments in the history of American agriculture.

 

[Named'em Tamed'em]

Going on 9 pages and the CAB premise falls on its face on the basis there is no empirical verification that anyone can identify
the color of the cow by the taste of the meat. The more this is brought up on these forums the greater the chance that more
people will become aware of the fallacy in the logic of marketing hair color in lieu of actual quality.

The very idea that the color of the hair of a cow can be identified by the taste of the meat is one of the most Bidenesque
arguments in the history of American agriculture.

But what if the steer identified as CAB!

 

[Warren Allison]

Going on 9 pages and the CAB premise falls on its face on the basis there is no empirical verification that anyone can identify
the color of the cow by the taste of the meat. The more this is brought up on these forums the greater the chance that more
people will become aware of the fallacy in the logic of marketing hair color in lieu of actual quality.

The very idea that the color of the hair of a cow can be identified by the taste of the meat is one of the most Bidenesque
arguments in the history of American agriculture.

ROFLMAO! Show me where in CAB marketing, any of the other certified Angus programs' marketing , or the USDA guidelines, does ANYONE, ANYWHERE, say that the color of a cow can be identified by the taste! I know you crave attention, and make a habit of posting contrary, argumentative replies to other people's post about almost anything, Probably because in real life, no one respects your opinion. Negative attention is better than no attention...that is why a lot of unruly children act out. So are you saying that ads promoting Angus should say
" Make sure to ask your grocer for certified Angus beef...the best tasting quality beef you can buy, but Certified ( name of a breed) is just as good"?!!! Or, are you saying Obiden should issue an EO abolishing the USDA's certified Angus programs, like CAB, so that your black cattle will no longer bring a premium price over your reds, whites, roans or whatever? Level the playing field? Spread the wealth? Are you a Socialist?!!!

 

[Lee VanRoss]

ROFLMAO! Show me where in CAB marketing, any of the other certified Angus programs' marketing , or the USDA guidelines, does ANYONE, ANYWHERE, say that the color of a cow can be identified by the taste! I know you crave attention, and make a habit of posting contrary, argumentative replies to other people's post about almost anything, Probably because in real life, no one respects your opinion. Negative attention is better than no attention...that is why a lot of unruly children act out. So are you saying that ads promoting Angus should say
" Make sure to ask your grocer for certified Angus beef...the best tasting quality beef you can buy, but Certified ( name of a breed) is just as good"?!!! Or, are you saying Obiden should issue an EO abolishing the USDA's certified Angus programs, like CAB, so that your black cattle will no longer bring a premium price over your reds, whites, roans or whatever? Level the playing field? Spread the wealth? Are you a Socialist?!!!

There is no need to ask me what I am saying, Just underline the words you don't understand and perhaps someone will explain them to you
or you could have someone look them up. I would add that you are one of the most representative proponents of CAB I have come across.
I would submit that with just a few more of you with a like mind that the CAB marketing program would reach the plateau it so richly deserves.
God bless your works of good will.

 

[anewcomer]

Thanks to all who posted to this thread. We got a little off in the weeds with CAB, which is a worthy discussion, but we talked a lot about cow efficiency. That was my interest. As I think Jeanne stated, a 1500 lb cow does not eat 50% more than a 1000 lb cow. The actual figure is 35% more. The number is based on metabolic weight, rather than live weight. Therefore 135, 1000 lb cows consume the same amount of forage as 100 1500 lb cows. This should be a consideration in designing a program. Fairly recent studies, which I hope to provide you if I can figure out how to, indicate that as cow weight increases, percentage of calf weaning weight decreases, as does pregnancy rate. There are lots of things to consider.

 

[mwj]

There is not any magic formula for feed efficiency. Grow cattle that both you and the buyers like and go from there. Profit trumps price but you need to move slowly and carefully.

You can change balers tomorrow but the wrong breed choice is a little harder.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Thanks to all who posted to this thread. We got a little off in the weeds with CAB, which is a worthy discussion, but we talked a lot about cow efficiency. That was my interest. As I think Jeanne stated, a 1500 lb cow does not eat 50% more than a 1000 lb cow. The actual figure is 35% more. The number is based on metabolic weight, rather than live weight. Therefore 135, 1000 lb cows consume the same amount of forage as 100 1500 lb cows. This should be a consideration in designing a program. Fairly recent studies, which I hope to provide you if I can figure out how to, indicate that as cow weight increases, percentage of calf weaning weight decreases, as does pregnancy rate. There are lots of things to consider.

Would love that study for my newsletter. You can just copy the web address.

 

[Rmc]

Thanks to all who posted to this thread. We got a little off in the weeds with CAB, which is a worthy discussion, but we talked a lot about cow efficiency. That was my interest. As I think Jeanne stated, a 1500 lb cow does not eat 50% more than a 1000 lb cow. The actual figure is 35% more. The number is based on metabolic weight, rather than live weight. Therefore 135, 1000 lb cows consume the same amount of forage as 100 1500 lb cows. This should be a consideration in designing a program.

Feed efficiency is not always directly related weight.
You can have herd of 1400 lb cows and some will thrive and gain weight , some will maintain, some will loose condition when in the exact same pasture. You can have similar situation with 1000 lb cows .
Feed efficiency is Maintenance of body condition while producing the highest price calf to sell . Not much to do with weight. It is amount of profit per unit of investment.

 

[anewcomer]

Jeanette, this is not the article I quoted, still looking for it, but may be of interest. http// beefrepro.org by David Lalman, Oklahoma State University.

 

[anewcomer]

RMC, you know I always like your comments. Agree that there are big cows that are efficient and small cows that are inefficient. But the averages dictate to the smaller cows utilizing less of the forage base. Easy fleshing cattle, of any size, are our goal, per Johan Zeitsman. Read his book, if you haven't.

 

[anewcomer]

Jeane, the article I'm looking for is authored by David Lalman. There are some very good articles by Rick Ragsby at University of Nebraska-Lincoln that you would like. Still looking for my original article. Thanks for your interest.

 

[Rmc]

But the averages dictate to the smaller cows utilizing less of the forage base. Easy fleshing cattle, of any size, are our goal, per Johan Zeitsman.

To me feed efficiency and easily fleshing are not any closer to the same then feed efficiency and weight of cattle.
A cow that is easy fleshing ,of any size, but is slow to reproduce or raises a dink calf is useless to me as a breeding Animal to me.
In my opinion too many people try to get their breeding animals to look like their terminal cross ideal.
Breeding animals are tools used to produce a product.
If my product is a vehicle I don't expect my tools or the parts used to look like the completed vehicle.
Yet that is what many do when trying to produce cattle.
It is very difficult to produce the 2022 model of a vehicle if you use the fenders of a 2000 model vehicle without a lot of work. There are easier ways to produce a 2022 fender than by using a 2000 fender.
Why do we continue to try with cattle.
Many say produce what the buyers want. I say bs . Produce what the buyers are willing to pay for , that you can make the most profit off of.
Buyers want calves weaned and conditioned and started on feed. In my area they won't pay enough extra for it to be worth it so it isn't happening here .
I can tell you this, if I had to eat the beef that packers put in the store , I would not eat the amount of beef that I do , now because I raise my own.
Many other fruits and vegetables in the store are the same way. They don't put what customers want taste wise in the store , they put in the store what they can produce a profit on and will ship and store well.
Doesn't matter if it is the best tasting or not .

 

[mwj]

There is a niche market for whatever ''beef'' that you believe is the best. That market may or may not allow you to make a profit.

If Dunn was still around he would post a pic of grandma to show a small efficient grass converting cow.

 

[andybob]

A good article on the differences between genotypes which gain on grass as opposed to those adapted to grain finishing; - https://sangacattle.webs.com/apps/forums/topics/show/3169124-grass-feeding-a-whole-new-ballgame-

 

[andybob]

The video of the three day genetics workshop in Florida by |Johann Zietsman and Jaime Elizondo; - https://sangacattle.webs.com/apps/videos/videos/show/18906811-sustainable-ranching

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Bottom line - you need to develop a herd of cows that thrive in YOUR environment on least cost input.
I have BIG cows. Range from 1400- 1800#. They are expected to breed in a 60 days breeding season (Jan/Feb and Sept/Oct). Have just recently started using a clean-up bull in spring for past 2 years. We AI'd for 32 days and bull out for 30 days. Started enjoying a vacation and letting a bull watch cows.
My cows thrive on grass and hay. Hay raised on my land. Calves are weaned and put on whole shell corn. Steers sold after 1 month precondition and heifers are raised on up to 5# shell corn/hd/day thru our brutal winter with no housing or woods for protection. Then bred and put on grass, never getting grain again (unless they get picked for the show string)..
So, my females thrive on forage - my male calves thrive on a grain feedlot program. My feedlot buyer smiles and says "I love your calves, they make me money". I feed out 3-5 fall born steers on WSC. Born Sept/Oct and butchered Oct - so 12 -13 months of age. Average HCW of 750# - choice.
And my heifers demand a hefty price tag getting sold to other PB breeders.
So, by developing a herd of cows to fit my environment, I have calves that thrive on forage base diets AND calves that thrive in a grain finish feedlot environment.
You can't convince me you can't have both. You set goals and expect your cows to meet those goals or grow wheels.

 

[BFE]

Tenderness has more to do with a positive eating experience than marbling for sure. Don't misunderstand me, marbling is important but if it's tough, I despise eating a tough steak, I get tired of chewing on it.

We've bought a few ribeyes at the local meat locker recently, we're out of home raised. All their beef sold across the counter comes from the owners farm. We've bought both choice and select. Both were a fantastic experience because they were both fork tender. I agree, tenderness is most important.

 

[Son of Butch]

I agree, tenderness is most important.

Restaurant surveys have confirmed when it comes to steaks, tenderness is the #1 factor in determining customer satisfaction.

 

[anewcomer]

I recommend everyone on this board watch the Johann Zeitsman video that Andybob posted. It will amaze you.

 

[libertygarden]

I have a smoky cow that drops claves like clockwork, is an excellent mother, and is only about 1100 pounds max. She is always in good body condition, even when nursing and her calves at weaning are he same size as other calves from black cows but they don't sell for the premium of the black calves. I call that cow efficient. I would take ten more like her even if the calves don't sell for a premium.