Joplin MO School Shooting

[aplusmnt]

History pretty well proves that gun control is not the reason for this rising problem. Kids probably had more access to guns as you guys mentioned in the past. No one locked them up, no one had to register to own one, it was common to see one hanging in the back window of a truck.

Now we have control, we have them locked up and we are limited on how we can buy them, who can have them and now we have school shootings as a regular thing.

Obviously their is another problem here besides gun control. And I think Caustic pretty well showed what that is.

All comes back on Parents in the end.

And, it's obvious parents have dropped the ball.

It's nice to take these trips down memory lane...but right now it is what it is, children are bringing weapons to school and using them against other childen and faculty...so what would be your suggestion to correct this problem? What is your suggestion to controlling children bringing weapons to school?

My daughter teaches school...my grandson is in the 7th grade...2 granddaughters are in elementary school...3 more grandchildren will be attending public school...and I'm scared to death for all of them. I don't give a diddly about what things were like in the past...I care about what is going on right now...and how to stop this before anyone else is killed.

So tell me...what is your "right now" solution?

Alice

Not sure you can unring this bell! Guess you have to break it into areas with two separate solutions. I do not think they will ever be able to stop it personally, parents would have to sacrifice and put forth some effort to be parents, and I do not think that 180 degree change is likely.

But off the cuff,

1. you could implement some laws stating that if your son brings a gun to school the mother and father have to serve the same punishment as the child. If child goes to prison for 10 years so does the mother and father, regardless of where the gun came from.

2. If any crime is committed with a Gun, you get life in prison or the death penalty. No 2 or 3rd strikes.

3. Spankings in schools started again starting with this Kindergarten class of 2006.

4. Stricter curfews in cities if youth are found out after 10 p.m. and they do not have a good reason, such as coming home from a job them and their Parents have to spend a Saturday 8 hour day doing community service picking up trash beside the highway. (wearing pink jump suits)

5. If a kid skips school he and the parent have to do Saturday detention together.

6. If a kid is tardy for school, he and the kid have to serve an hour of detention for every 30 minutes he was late.

7. If a kid reaches a point where they are a nuisance to the school, kick them out. Send them on their way. The world needs ditch diggers and not all people are savable or worth the time and energy. Hopefully they will pull their selves up later in life, but in the mean time their is a school full of students with potential that could use the time and efforts from teachers.

8. Set up an in-between Penal system kind of a purgatory for bad kids. When a kid seems to be going down the wrong road, don't wait till he needs Detained for a crime, send him to a work camp for a month or so to teach him some respect and discipline. Before he reaches the point of needing Juvenile Detention Center or Prison.

Parents do not care if their kids have to do detention, get expelled from school. But if you make the punishment interfere with their self involved lives they will start paying a little more attention to where their children are and what they are doing.

But the ACLU would have a field day with my suggestions, it would be against the parents civil liberties.

Those are a few of my thoughts off the cuff.

As far as what could the schools do now in the present. I dunno, maybe have any qualified teachers or administrators that wish to given the right to carry weapons. Touchy issue not sure how I feel about it exactly but it is a thought to consider. Maybe a few select ones that no body but faculty know who they are.

Maybe give Parents the right to send their kids to any school they wish and the Government money follows the kids not the district you live in. This would create a competition between schools to secure and improve their own houses. Now the way it is they get money not for performance but for where a child lives. Lots of countries have this system and teachers are more involved with the kids because if enrollment is down they loose their jobs.

Make schools a free market and we as parents will only shop at schools that have their acts together, rather it is safety issues or educational issues.

And then we also realize that our kids are actually safe at school. School shootings are High Profile Incidents, much like Plane Crashes. But in the end it is safer to fly than drive and kids are in school are safer than when they are not.

I tell you another way to slow this problem down, put a media gag order on all School violence incidents. Only the local paper can report on it, no TV, No Radio, No Internet. Crimes were a lot less back when most people got their news from reading the paper vs the way the Networks Magnify these issues which leads to copy cat shootings.

These are some radical solutions to help with the problem. But the courts and organizations like the ACLU would not have it.

I got another 1,000 or so suggestions if you want to hear them? But I imagine most got bored reading a long time ago so I will stop.

 

[msscamp]

History pretty well proves that gun control is not the reason for this rising problem. Kids probably had more access to guns as you guys mentioned in the past. No one locked them up, no one had to register to own one, it was common to see one hanging in the back window of a truck.

Now we have control, we have them locked up and we are limited on how we can buy them, who can have them and now we have school shootings as a regular thing.

Obviously their is another problem here besides gun control. And I think Caustic pretty well showed what that is.

All comes back on Parents in the end.

And, it's obvious parents have dropped the ball.

It's nice to take these trips down memory lane...but right now it is what it is, children are bringing weapons to school and using them against other childen and faculty...so what would be your suggestion to correct this problem? What is your suggestion to controlling children bringing weapons to school?

My daughter teaches school...my grandson is in the 7th grade...2 granddaughters are in elementary school...3 more grandchildren will be attending public school...and I'm scared to death for all of them. I don't give a diddly about what things were like in the past...I care about what is going on right now...and how to stop this before anyone else is killed.

So tell me...what is your "right now" solution?

Alice

Parents do not care if their kids have to do detention, get expelled from school. But if you make the punishment interfere with their self involved lives they will start paying a little more attention to where their children are and what they are doing.

I think you're right on this. As sad as your statement is, I believe it to be truth from what I've seen.

I tell you another way to slow this problem down, put a media gag order on all School violence incidents. Only the local paper can report on it, no TV, No Radio, No Internet. Crimes were a lot less back when most people got their news from reading the paper vs the way the Networks Magnify these issues which leads to copy cat shootings.

I think you're right with this statement, too. I also think a lot of the truth in this statement goes back to the previous statement about parents not caring what their kids do as long as it doesn't interfere with thier self-absorbed lives. I know that, as a school teacher, my Mother has had parents ask her why school can't be year round so - in their words - "they didn't have to deal with their children."

I got another 1,000 or so suggestions if you want to hear them? But I imagine most got bored reading a long time ago so I will stop.

For what it's worth, I didn't. I can't say as I agree with most of your suggestions, because I believe they will only raise the abuse rate - the reason being that very few parents are going to look at their parenting ability, they will simply blame the child, and take out their frustrations and anger on that child. But I do agree with some of them. FWIW.

 

[aplusmnt]

Self-Absorbed lives that was what I was looking for I had a brain fart and could not think of the right word. Self involved did not sound right. You just gave my mind a rest I was going crazy trying to think of the word I was looking for. :lol:

I am not sure I even agree with some of the suggestions I gave. I think there is some food for thought there and some principals that could maybe lead to some good policies if smarter minds gathered and pondered it.

I did hear a story of a Coach one time that coached a sporting team after school some YMCA program or such. Kids were always late and he would make them run as punishment, well he realized that it was not the kids fault they were late it was the parents. So he started a new rule. If a kid was late for practice they could not practice that day or the next day.

Well this interfered with parents schedule, as many used this program as a Baby Sitter. Once it interfered with the parents schedule being late stopped almost 100%.

Make parents responsible for their kids and changes will slowly begin to happen.

 

[msscamp]

Self-Absorbed lives that was what I was looking for I had a brain fart and could not think of the right word. Self involved did not sound right. You just gave my mind a rest I was going crazy trying to think of the word I was looking for. :lol:

I'm glad I could help.

I am not sure I even agree with some of the suggestions I gave. I think there is some food for thought there and some principals that could maybe lead to some good policies if smarter minds gathered and pondered it.

I think there is some good food for thought there, too. Unfortunately, we cannot tell our citizens (or immigrents) that they can or cannot have children. I'm sure that seems a bit harsh, but it has always seemed strange to me that we are required to have a license to drive, we have to meet certain requirements to adopt an animal from any type of animal shelter, we have to attend classes and pass rigourous (sp?) screenings to adopt or become a foster parent, but anyone with functioning reproductive organs can become a parent? What is wrong with this picture? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for less government, but there seems to be something very wrong with this scenario - at least to me. Maybe I'm just weird. :lol: :lol: Some people will excel as parents, but others will produce them and, for whatever reason, not provide any kind of guidance, leadership, or support to their children. Others will flat out abuse and neglect their children. I don't know what the answer is.

I did hear a story of a Coach one time that coached a sporting team after school some YMCA program or such. Kids were always late and he would make them run as punishment, well he realized that it was not the kids fault they were late it was the parents. So he started a new rule. If a kid was late for practice they could not practice that day or the next day. Well this interfered with parents schedule, as many used this program as a Baby Sitter. Once it interfered with the parents schedule being late stopped almost 100%.

:lol: Good for him! It's amazing how that works, isn't it?

Make parents responsible for their kids and changes will slowly begin to happen.

Yep, you're right. The sad part is that is has to be enforced to become effective - isn't that part of the deal when one chooses to have children?

 

[backhoeboogie]

Make parents responsible for their kids and changes will slowly begin to happen.

That works for most kids but there are many one parent families today. Mom/Dad are struggling to make ends meet and the kids need more than the one parent can give.

But then again, I see really good kids coming out of single parent homes and cases where problem kids come from two parent homes.

More rules is not the solution. That is what got us here. Just like the no child left behind rule that leaves everyone else waiting on the one kid to catch up with them. Then they get out in front again and have to wait yet again. Doesn't that sort of take out the incentive of being ahead of the game?

 

[chrisy]

It's aright to say blame the Parent, but what about the kid that doesn't have parents, that come from Childrens Homes or Steet Kids, Foster Homes etc who do you blame then. It is the situation and the company that they keep that often makes a child the way they are. Peer pressure, to be like the kid they think is cool, to tag along with a particular group so as not to be bullied. there are a lot of things to consider. some kids come from homes with all the love and care a child needs and he or she can turn out bad, as I said it comes down to peer pressure, a lot of the time. and unfrotunatly the hands being tied of the teacher, they can't carry out the disipline at school like they used to. Children pick up on this and know their rights and play on it. We as adults know what it is like to transgress from teenager to adult and how hard it can be, feelings all mixed up and sometimes it can be the chemicals in the brain that go adrift and don't gell properly, in turn causes manic depression, or schizophrenia, if not spotted that child is labelled as a delinquent. not always the case but there are a lot of undiagnosed cases about. So before we label Parents as the bad guys we need to look at the bigger picture. sorry for going so long, but there is a lot more I could say.

 

[aplusmnt]

It's aright to say blame the Parent, but what about the kid that doesn't have parents, that come from Childrens Homes or Steet Kids, Foster Homes etc who do you blame then. It is the situation and the company that they keep that often makes a child the way they are. Peer pressure, to be like the kid they think is cool, to tag along with a particular group so as not to be bullied. there are a lot of things to consider. some kids come from homes with all the love and care a child needs and he or she can turn out bad, as I said it comes down to peer pressure, a lot of the time. and unfrotunatly the hands being tied of the teacher, they can't carry out the disipline at school like they used to. Children pick up on this and know their rights and play on it. We as adults know what it is like to transgress from teenager to adult and how hard it can be, feelings all mixed up and sometimes it can be the chemicals in the brain that go adrift and don't gell properly, in turn causes manic depression, or schizophrenia, if not spotted that child is labelled as a delinquent. not always the case but there are a lot of undiagnosed cases about. So before we label Parents as the bad guys we need to look at the bigger picture. sorry for going so long, but there is a lot more I could say.

Let me rephrase all my above suggestions to not only include Parent but also the word Guardian! I do not care who is the kids Guardian, rather it is Parent, Uncle, Grandparent or Foster Parent. Guardians have to be held accountable, punish some parents for their kids doing wrong because they got associated with the wrong crowd and maybe that Guardian will make sure Where their kid is and who he is with. Maybe they will not allow them to be part of the wrong crowd.

There is no fix all, and what might work for 90% of kids won't work for the other 10% but we do not give up on fixing the 90% that could be helped just because the other 10% do not fit into the mold. There is always collateral damage in any policies not one rule or regulation fits for all. If you want to hold out for some change that will make everyone happy then you will be waiting a long time.

I know their is no perfect parents and kids no matter what can have their own will. But if nothing else we have to be able to accept responsibility for how they turn out and not blame someone else.

God gave us a naked little baby. Everything from then on is up to us to mold him, what he learns, what he wears and how he is allowed to act. Baring some sort of Mental Problems.

 

[aplusmnt]

More rules is not the solution. That is what got us here. Just like the no child left behind rule that leaves everyone else waiting on the one kid to catch up with them. Then they get out in front again and have to wait yet again. Doesn't that sort of take out the incentive of being ahead of the game?

I am not that read on the "No Child Left Behind Act" But I am not so sure all the negative responses we get from the Teachers is a reliable source (even though it should be). School officials fought this from day one and why wouldn't they, it basically put their jobs on the line. If they failed to make the improvements in their school they would loose funding. It enabled a parent to move their kid to another school if the school failed to improve academically. Teachers and School officials have a lot riding on this, mostly their Jobs!

For 30 years prior to the NCLB Act our schools and academic situation had been deteriorating. No one Law could fix it completely but that is no reason not to try to fix it. So far from what I have read it has showed some improvements. You can go to http://www.ed.gov/nclb/overview/importa ... index.html To get a specific report card on improvements in your specific state.

But here are some general advancements within the U.S. as a whole. In just 5 short years.



Multiple studies and reports show that student achievement is rising across America:

The long-term Nation's Report Card (NAEP) results, released in July 2005, showed elementary school student achievement in reading and math at all-time highs and the achievement gap closing.

More progress was made by nine-year-olds in reading in the last five years than in the previous 28 years combined.
America's nine-year-olds posted the best scores in reading (since 1971) and math (since 1973) in the history of the report. America's 13-year-olds earned the highest math scores the test ever recorded.
Reading and math scores for African American and Hispanic nine-year-olds reached an all-time high.
Math scores for African American and Hispanic 13-year-olds reached an all-time high.
Achievement gaps in reading and math between white and African American nine-year-olds and between white and Hispanic nine-year-olds are at an all-time low.

The state-by-state Nation's Report Card results, released in October 2005, showed improved achievement in the earlier grades in which NCLB is focused. In the last two years, the number of fourth-graders who learned their fundamental math skills increased by 235,000—enough to fill 500 elementary schools!

Across-the-board improvements were made in mathematics and in fourth-grade reading.
African American and Hispanic students posted all-time highs in a number of categories.
Forty-three states and the District of Columbia either improved academically or held steady in all categories (fourth- and eighth-grade reading and fourth- and eighth-grade math).

The Nation's Report Card Trial Urban District Assessment, released in December 2005, showed students in select urban school districts improving faster than their peers nationwide over the last two years.

Fourth-graders in eight of the 10 urban districts made larger gains in math scores than the national average.
Fourth-graders in seven of 10 urban districts made larger gains in reading scores than the national average.
Eighth-graders in seven of 10 urban districts made more progress in basic math skills than the national average.

And the Nation's Report Card Science 2005 Report found significant academic gains by fourth-graders.

Overall, fourth-graders improved four points in science achievement over 1996 and 2000 levels.
The lowest-performing students made the largest gains.
African American and Hispanic fourth-graders made significant gains as well, narrowing the achievement gap.
Reading and math are important foundational skills for science.

 

[chrisy]

sorry another siutation we will have to agree to disagree on. As I have said in previous threads. I have had first hand knowledge what it is like to have a child go off of the rails. My Son, now the sort of Son you couldn't wish for a better one. He went off of the rails because of the company he kept. he had and has a loving home was given all the love one can give to a child, he had hugs was told he was loved, had kisses when he wanted one, and when he didn't, before bed read stories too you name it he had it, Love, time and material things. not only from Me and his Daddy but from his sisters, but still he went wrong. he would go to school and that would be the last I saw of him until late into the night we would search the streets, go to the places we thought he was at, had worried nights wondering where he was, came to near divorce, and a nervous break down of my Husband, with worry of this boy. I would go to the school and wait by the gates and he would go out of the other gates, I could not be at three places at once, school has three exits. We did everything we could with this boy but never gave up, and never stopped loving him and told him this on many occasions.
one good thing he never stole or committed a crime, he did get suspended from school on more than one account and did not tell me, he was getting ready for school going out and hanging out with the riff raff he was associated with, then one day the school rang and asked why I had not been in to see them as asked in the letter they had given him. I went with him to school got him reinstated and the school tried there level best, along side us as a family but still no good. Then we went on holiday to Sri Lanka, a holiday of a lifetime so we thought and then tragedy hit the biggest Tsunami in our living history. He saw things there that a 16 year old should never have to see, death and distruction beyond all, and when he thought he had lost his Daddy in the wave, and saw what he did, I think it bought home to him what he had, as he has been a different boy since. so for me in some ways a little bit of bad has come a lot of good. I don't know where we would have been with him if this had not happened, but God has a funny way sometimes of putting you in the right or wrong place at the right time. So I can see where a Parent can't always be blamed for the child, and how some might give up. I am lucky he changed, but only hope he did not cause bad times for other parents, but I don't think so, as the crowd he followed into was already formed and now most are inside for one crime or another....I have seen it from a teachers side also, and hear stories of kids from my Daughter and Son-in-law as they are teachers to. I don't know the answer and I don't think anyone does, is it the times we now live? no don't think so, these things have been brewing for years, it would seem on both sides of the pond, what can be done, who knows? but things will change and we wont really know why but they will I HOPE.

 

[Alice]

now...and how to stop this before anyone else is killed.

So tell me...what is your "right now" solution?

Alice

I've talked with teachers and administrators and from what I am told, I think this "no child left behind" business is hogwash.

It is hogwash...and has been shown to be a dismal failure. Of course, there will be sites on the internet touting the wonderful things it has done...and sites touting the what a failure it has been. I've read both and not with a jaundiced eye toward either. I was raised in a family full of teachers, my daughter is a teacher...my sister is a 30 year child protective services worker/administrator who has had to deal with the fallout of lousy parenting and social services rules and regulations regarding these children. You have legislators making laws that have never had to slug it out in the trenches with the teachers and school administrators and school counselors and concerned parents of children who are trying to get educations. Last year my daughter had a boy that went off...threw desks...banged his head on the floor. She cleared the other students out of the room, and called the principal who came immediately.

Seems there's only one way a teacher/principal is allowed to restrain a child. She couldn't do it because he was a big kid...the principal couldn't do it because he couldn't get hold of him to restrain him. This is a 3rd grade kid now. Finally, the principal more or less said he's leaving this room one way or the other, picked him up, wrestled with him and managed to get him out of the room. I understand the principal had bruises from head to foot.

Result? An entire afternoon of teaching was blown. And this wasn't the only time mornings and afternoons were wasted because of this one child...however, this incident finally was given the attention my daughter had sought for this boy since the beginning of the school year. The boy was finally placed in an alternative school. The last six weeks of school went well. Yep, out of an entire school year, one full six weeks was devoted to teaching and only teaching. The other kids dug in and their testing showed how much better they learned without the distraction and constant upheavel. They all passed their TAKS and passed with really good scores. It did come at a price for the remaining kids, however. Their entire class time was drill, after drill, after drill...no free time to go to the library...no free time to for fun stuff like show and tell.

No wonder schools aren't happy with "no child left behind." Their teachers can't make and keep "scores" that are required for their funding because that have to deal with problems like this, over, and over and over.

Alice

 

[Ryder]

I've talked with teachers and administrators and from what I am told, I think this "no child left behind" business is hogwash. In our school system, we are putting troubled kids in the mainstream classes. When I was in school, these students went to special ed so they would not interfere with the other children. Some of these kids are going to be trouble and are dangerous at a very young age - but they can't be left behind. Heck, that is life. That is nature. Pull them out and put them somewhere else. Most of it is the parents fault anyway and it is not the school's job to correct this - they can't.

Excuse my ignorance, but can someone explain just what this "no child left behind" business is?

 

[peg4x4]

I gotta ask,how old does a child have to be when they are responsible for their own actions? My drug addict is 35...Is it still my fault?? Was it ever my fault?? Have two good ,smart kids..What did I do right with them,and wrong with the other?? Do I claim credit for them?? Should I be in jail beside her,have a gold crown for the other two??? Did what I could,but the "voices" were too strong..

 

[chrisy]

I gotta ask,how old does a child have to be when they are responsible for their own actions? My drug addict is 35...Is it still my fault?? Was it ever my fault?? Have two good ,smart kids..What did I do right with them,and wrong with the other?? Do I claim credit for them?? Should I be in jail beside her,have a gold crown for the other two??? Did what I could,but the "voices" were too strong..

exactly peg this is what I have said, it is not always our fault. I had three who were good, one died at 25, and the youngest a little sod.

 

[john250]

I've talked with teachers and administrators and from what I am told, I think this "no child left behind" business is hogwash. In our school system, we are putting troubled kids in the mainstream classes. When I was in school, these students went to special ed so they would not interfere with the other children. Some of these kids are going to be trouble and are dangerous at a very young age - but they can't be left behind. Heck, that is life. That is nature. Pull them out and put them somewhere else. Most of it is the parents fault anyway and it is not the school's job to correct this - they can't.

Excuse my ignorance, but can someone explain just what this "no child left behind" business is?

No Child Left Behind is the Bush education agenda.
Includes performance goals for schools via testing. Schools are supposed to perform vis a vis making students proficient in their readin, writin and rithmetic.
Not very well funded, for the scope of its' goals. IMO
It is the agenda of the day for schools, however.
We make impossible demands of our school systems, IMO. We all want our kids to turn out a lot smarter than we are. If they don't, we blame the school.
Education policy is not for the faint.

 

[Alice]

I gotta ask,how old does a child have to be when they are responsible for their own actions? My drug addict is 35...Is it still my fault?? Was it ever my fault?? Have two good ,smart kids..What did I do right with them,and wrong with the other?? Do I claim credit for them?? Should I be in jail beside her,have a gold crown for the other two??? Did what I could,but the "voices" were too strong..

exactly peg this is what I have said, it is not always our fault. I had three who were good, one died at 25, and the youngest a little sod.

It's so true...sometimes you can't do enough...and the kids weren't born with an absolute instruction manual...you do what you can when you can how you can and the best you can...then you hope for the best.

Alice

 

[peg4x4]

I gotta ask,how old does a child have to be when they are responsible for their own actions? My drug addict is 35...Is it still my fault?? Was it ever my fault?? Have two good ,smart kids..What did I do right with them,and wrong with the other?? Do I claim credit for them?? Should I be in jail beside her,have a gold crown for the other two??? Did what I could,but the "voices" were too strong..

exactly peg this is what I have said, it is not always our fault. I had three who were good, one died at 25, and the youngest a little sod.

It's so true...sometimes you can't do enough...and the kids weren't born with an absolute instruction manual...you do what you can when you can how you can and the best you can...then you hope for the best.

Alice

Thanks----I never could,from the day she could talk,get her to admit anything was her fault...that her actions were the direct cause .... far fetched example..she was 4,messed in her pants..it wasn't her,couldn't be her,when asked who did it then,clamed it was all her sisters doing!!!

 

[Alice]

I gotta ask,how old does a child have to be when they are responsible for their own actions? My drug addict is 35...Is it still my fault?? Was it ever my fault?? Have two good ,smart kids..What did I do right with them,and wrong with the other?? Do I claim credit for them?? Should I be in jail beside her,have a gold crown for the other two??? Did what I could,but the "voices" were too strong..

exactly peg this is what I have said, it is not always our fault. I had three who were good, one died at 25, and the youngest a little sod.

It's so true...sometimes you can't do enough...and the kids weren't born with an absolute instruction manual...you do what you can when you can how you can and the best you can...then you hope for the best.

Alice

Thanks----I never could,from the day she could talk,get her to admit anything was her fault...that her actions were the direct cause .... far fetched example..she was 4,messed in her pants..it wasn't her,couldn't be her,when asked who did it then,clamed it was all her sisters doing!!!

Peg, sometimes they're just born wrong headed. Sad and scary, but it just happens.

Alice

 

[peg4x4]

Yep....All you can do is the best you can do at the time..That is what I tell myself anyway--- I don't really think I'm any more responsiable for her being as she is than I am for the other one haveing lymphoma..... !OH !On lymphoma.. You can't get lymphoma without haveing had Mono..You can have Mono without geting lymphoma---Thats what they told Dau#2 at hosp.

 

[aplusmnt]

now...and how to stop this before anyone else is killed.

So tell me...what is your "right now" solution?

Alice

I've talked with teachers and administrators and from what I am told, I think this "no child left behind" business is hogwash.

It is hogwash...and has been shown to be a dismal failure. Of course, there will be sites on the internet touting the wonderful things it has done...and sites touting the what a failure it has been. I've read both and not with a jaundiced eye toward either. I was raised in a family full of teachers, my daughter is a teacher...my sister is a 30 year child protective services worker/administrator who has had to deal with the fallout of lousy parenting and social services rules and regulations regarding these children. You have legislators making laws that have never had to slug it out in the trenches with the teachers and school administrators and school counselors and concerned parents of children who are trying to get educations. Last year my daughter had a boy that went off...threw desks...banged his head on the floor. She cleared the other students out of the room, and called the principal who came immediately.

Seems there's only one way a teacher/principal is allowed to restrain a child. She couldn't do it because he was a big kid...the principal couldn't do it because he couldn't get hold of him to restrain him. This is a 3rd grade kid now. Finally, the principal more or less said he's leaving this room one way or the other, picked him up, wrestled with him and managed to get him out of the room. I understand the principal had bruises from head to foot.

Result? An entire afternoon of teaching was blown. And this wasn't the only time mornings and afternoons were wasted because of this one child...however, this incident finally was given the attention my daughter had sought for this boy since the beginning of the school year. The boy was finally placed in an alternative school. The last six weeks of school went well. Yep, out of an entire school year, one full six weeks was devoted to teaching and only teaching. The other kids dug in and their testing showed how much better they learned without the distraction and constant upheavel. They all passed their TAKS and passed with really good scores. It did come at a price for the remaining kids, however. Their entire class time was drill, after drill, after drill...no free time to go to the library...no free time to for fun stuff like show and tell.

No wonder schools aren't happy with "no child left behind." Their teachers can't make and keep "scores" that are required for their funding because that have to deal with problems like this, over, and over and over.

Alice

Sounds like a disciplinary issue to me not an issue having anything to do with testing and Teachers being held accountable for the progress.

Teachers are paid employees, there should be some accountability. I know my workers have to answer for the productivity of what I pay them for.

And my question is what program was working before No Child Left Behind? Liberals always are quick to condemn anything Bush does but they offer no programs or plans to correct it themselves. The spend 8 years in office and offer no educational reforms. Maybe history will show this system failed but at least someone is trying to go down fighting instead of sitting around debating why something will not work.

I say give it a shot, what worse can happen than what already was happening for the few previous decades.

And seems like some progress is being shown for something that has only 4 years of statistics to go by.

Thing is with the Teachers Union worried about Money and Job security and Liberal Media looking to Bash anything Bush does how will anyone really know if this could work or is working with out digging deep into research on it.

Ps. The website I posted is a fact sheet for each state to look and see if there has been progress made or not. You might go to your state and find nothing has been improved I dunno go read and see. It is not some Conservative web page with an agenda.

Go read some of the States improvements and lack of improvements. Then ask yourselves when in the last years have you heard anything about any educational improvements being made besides after NCLB?

 

[aplusmnt]

I gotta ask,how old does a child have to be when they are responsible for their own actions? My drug addict is 35...Is it still my fault?? Was it ever my fault?? Have two good ,smart kids..What did I do right with them,and wrong with the other?? Do I claim credit for them?? Should I be in jail beside her,have a gold crown for the other two??? Did what I could,but the "voices" were too strong..

A parent is responsible for Kids while minor under 18. If a minor is out causing vandalism while the parent is out drinking at 2:00 a.m. or at home a sleep or watching TV then parent gets punished also. They should have known where they where.