Joplin MO School Shooting

[msscamp]

It's aright to say blame the Parent, but what about the kid that doesn't have parents, that come from Childrens Homes or Steet Kids, Foster Homes etc who do you blame then.

Ummmm, chrisy, I don't mean to be a smarty pants here, but it is physically impossible for a child to exist without parents - the moral majority (and many other people) have a major problem with test tube babies. I'm not exactly sure what you were trying to get across, but if a parent(s) child/children was/were removed from their custody, I'm thinking they screwed up in a major kind of way and are totally responsible for that screw up. I cannot even begin to imagine what it must be like for a child to be removed from his/her parents and placed in foster care.

not all children in Foster care and Childrens homes are taken from their parents as such some are Orphaned. What then it is not the Parents fault in a lot of cases that they died.

Valid point, and my bad for not realizing that.

 

[chrisy]

sorry another siutation we will have to agree to disagree on. As I have said in previous threads. I have had first hand knowledge what it is like to have a child go off of the rails. My Son, now the sort of Son you couldn't wish for a better one. He went off of the rails because of the company he kept. he had and has a loving home was given all the love one can give to a child, he had hugs was told he was loved, had kisses when he wanted one, and when he didn't, before bed read stories too you name it he had it, Love, time and material things. not only from Me and his Daddy but from his sisters, but still he went wrong. he would go to school and that would be the last I saw of him until late into the night we would search the streets, go to the places we thought he was at, had worried nights wondering where he was, came to near divorce, and a nervous break down of my Husband, with worry of this boy. I would go to the school and wait by the gates and he would go out of the other gates, I could not be at three places at once, school has three exits. We did everything we could with this boy but never gave up, and never stopped loving him and told him this on many occasions.
one good thing he never stole or committed a crime, he did get suspended from school on more than one account and did not tell me, he was getting ready for school going out and hanging out with the riff raff he was associated with, then one day the school rang and asked why I had not been in to see them as asked in the letter they had given him. I went with him to school got him reinstated and the school tried there level best, along side us as a family but still no good. Then we went on holiday to Sri Lanka, a holiday of a lifetime so we thought and then tragedy hit the biggest Tsunami in our living history. He saw things there that a 16 year old should never have to see, death and distruction beyond all, and when he thought he had lost his Daddy in the wave, and saw what he did, I think it bought home to him what he had, as he has been a different boy since. so for me in some ways a little bit of bad has come a lot of good. I don't know where we would have been with him if this had not happened, but God has a funny way sometimes of putting you in the right or wrong place at the right time. So I can see where a Parent can't always be blamed for the child, and how some might give up. I am lucky he changed, but only hope he did not cause bad times for other parents, but I don't think so, as the crowd he followed into was already formed and now most are inside for one crime or another....I have seen it from a teachers side also, and hear stories of kids from my Daughter and Son-in-law as they are teachers to. I don't know the answer and I don't think anyone does, is it the times we now live? no don't think so, these things have been brewing for years, it would seem on both sides of the pond, what can be done, who knows? but things will change and we wont really know why but they will I HOPE.

The child didn't fail you! You failed in the most important job your were given on earth and that was a parent. Quit using the victim response and take accountability for your actions or lack of.

I did not fail my child, he did not fail me he fell for a while and like the prodical Son he came back, and was welcomed with open arms. he is loved and cared for and always was, he has said sorry to me for his behaviour and he says he realizes now what an idiot he was, he has never blamed me or his Daddy for his actions, he has said it was his fault for going with this gang and not heeding what we had taught and said to him. His is on the right track now, and is thankful we never gave up on him, and our Pastor who helped me a lot while this was going on is also pleased with the way it has turned out. My Son will be 18 in a few weeks, and is still in full time education and will be until he is 20. and I will be financing him throughout and careing for him, I have been there through thick and thin, have taken abuse and done all in my power to get back to where he is today, albeit it took a tragady to bring him to his sences, but I was there for him all the time, so how can you say I failed him?

 

[Caustic Burno]

To get back on the original subject. The 13 year old that was arrested in the Joplin MO shooting tried to break out of jail the other day, but was not successful.

The big debate around here now is rather they are going to try him as an Adult or a Juvenile.

With the risk of starting another heated debate any personal opinions on rather a 13 year old should be tried as an adult or not?

Old enough to do the crime old enough to do the time.

He'll do the time as a juvenile in a juvenile facility. Doing the time as a 13 year old in a state pen? That is wrong!

Alice

Bet if he was plotting to kill one of your kids that liberal view would change right quick. Actually you don't treat a mad dog you kill it . This was a planned premeditated event doesnt get any worse.

 

[Caustic Burno]

sorry another siutation we will have to agree to disagree on. As I have said in previous threads. I have had first hand knowledge what it is like to have a child go off of the rails. My Son, now the sort of Son you couldn't wish for a better one. He went off of the rails because of the company he kept. he had and has a loving home was given all the love one can give to a child, he had hugs was told he was loved, had kisses when he wanted one, and when he didn't, before bed read stories too you name it he had it, Love, time and material things. not only from Me and his Daddy but from his sisters, but still he went wrong. he would go to school and that would be the last I saw of him until late into the night we would search the streets, go to the places we thought he was at, had worried nights wondering where he was, came to near divorce, and a nervous break down of my Husband, with worry of this boy. I would go to the school and wait by the gates and he would go out of the other gates, I could not be at three places at once, school has three exits. We did everything we could with this boy but never gave up, and never stopped loving him and told him this on many occasions.
one good thing he never stole or committed a crime, he did get suspended from school on more than one account and did not tell me, he was getting ready for school going out and hanging out with the riff raff he was associated with, then one day the school rang and asked why I had not been in to see them as asked in the letter they had given him. I went with him to school got him reinstated and the school tried there level best, along side us as a family but still no good. Then we went on holiday to Sri Lanka, a holiday of a lifetime so we thought and then tragedy hit the biggest Tsunami in our living history. He saw things there that a 16 year old should never have to see, death and distruction beyond all, and when he thought he had lost his Daddy in the wave, and saw what he did, I think it bought home to him what he had, as he has been a different boy since. so for me in some ways a little bit of bad has come a lot of good. I don't know where we would have been with him if this had not happened, but God has a funny way sometimes of putting you in the right or wrong place at the right time. So I can see where a Parent can't always be blamed for the child, and how some might give up. I am lucky he changed, but only hope he did not cause bad times for other parents, but I don't think so, as the crowd he followed into was already formed and now most are inside for one crime or another....I have seen it from a teachers side also, and hear stories of kids from my Daughter and Son-in-law as they are teachers to. I don't know the answer and I don't think anyone does, is it the times we now live? no don't think so, these things have been brewing for years, it would seem on both sides of the pond, what can be done, who knows? but things will change and we wont really know why but they will I HOPE.

The child didn't fail you! You failed in the most important job your were given on earth and that was a parent. Quit using the victim response and take accountability for your actions or lack of.

I did not fail my child, he did not fail me he fell for a while and like the prodical Son he came back, and was welcomed with open arms. he is loved and cared for and always was, he has said sorry to me for his behaviour and he says he realizes now what an idiot he was, he has never blamed me or his Daddy for his actions, he has said it was his fault for going with this gang and not heeding what we had taught and said to him. His is on the right track now, and is thankful we never gave up on him, and our Pastor who helped me a lot while this was going on is also pleased with the way it has turned out. My Son will be 18 in a few weeks, and is still in full time education and will be until he is 20. and I will be financing him throughout and careing for him, I have been there through thick and thin, have taken abuse and done all in my power to get back to where he is today, albeit it took a tragady to bring him to his sences, but I was there for him all the time, so how can you say I failed him?

Oh but you did by your own admiision he had one foot in the jail house and the other on a bananna peel. Again you can't take responsibilty it was his fault for going with a gang. Wrong it was yours you failed as a parent or he wouldn't have to turn to a gang. It doesn't stop at saying you can't run with this bunch.

 

[dun]

Speaking of liberels. By brother was a diehard eaten up with it liberal and anti-death penalty. When bussing started and his boys would have had to go to a predominantly black school he started to change, 10 years later when his son was murdered he became a convert.
He still called himself a liberal, but it was a pretty selective liberal.
Kind of funy that the only 2 things we really disagreed about was his earlier view on the death enalty and his problem with having the boys in the predominantly black school. And I'm a conservative.
The problem with the lables of liberal or conservative is that with a few rare exceptions, we're all a little of both. I think there are probably a lot more moderates then either of the other 2 categorys combined. The hard part is getting them stirred up enough to get out and do there duty and vote.
End of unpaid political announcement.

dun

 

[aplusmnt]

I have some mixed fillings on this child as an adult, hope I am not turning liberal :lol:

I think the ages and ways we look at it on Teens is kind of messed up. An 18 year old can go to War carrying an M16 and die for this country. He can register and vote for laws involving the sale of alcohol but he can not drink for another 3 years when he is 21.

A 13 year old steals a car and goes for a Joy ride and he is tried as a child, but he commits a more serious crime and he is tried as an adult.

I think there needs to be a more standardized pattern either he is a kid or an adult not making choices based on Media attention.

I would make it were a certain age is a child and a certain age is an adult. Not sure what that age would be.

I think maybe something along the lines that a Juvenile could be given more years than just when he reaches 21 but at 21 he would be eligible for parole if the Parole board deemed him reformed if not he goes on and serves time as an adult.

So I guess after all that the short answer is I would probably not tried a 13 year old as an adult, but before he could be released he would have to show he has been reformed and hopefully, the Juvenile system has corrected the mistakes the parents made.

 

[aplusmnt]

Speaking of liberels. By brother was a diehard eaten up with it liberal and anti-death penalty. When bussing started and his boys would have had to go to a predominantly black school he started to change, 10 years later when his son was murdered he became a convert.
He still called himself a liberal, but it was a pretty selective liberal.
Kind of funy that the only 2 things we really disagreed about was his earlier view on the death enalty and his problem with having the boys in the predominantly black school. And I'm a conservative.
The problem with the lables of liberal or conservative is that with a few rare exceptions, we're all a little of both. I think there are probably a lot more moderates then either of the other 2 categorys combined. The hard part is getting them stirred up enough to get out and do there duty and vote.
End of unpaid political announcement.

dun

Along the same line, I have found that not all Dems are Liberals. My parents are Democrats have been since they voted the first time for JFK in the 60's. But they have not got a liberal view in their body. I laugh some times and cry sometimes because they Vote Dem because that is the way they have always voted. They think the Dems are for the poor and Republicans are for the rich. But If you look at the top 100 issues facing politicians my parents would be on the right on all them.

They are just uneducated and set in their ways.

 

[chrisy]

sorry CB I will leave it now as you have your view and me mine. I was here in the situation and know the whole story, probably my fault in the way as he had everything, but still he wanted the stars.

as for the young boy in the thread, he should be tried as a Youth, as he is only 13. If he was here he would be, then when gets to 18 he will be moved into an adult correction centre, until his sentence was up or the parole board thought other wise. When released he would be give a different identity and a place to live far from where the crime was committed. It has happened this way here when two boys one aged 12 and the other 13 kidnapped and killed a 2 year old on the train tracks. My Husband has also explained this to me as he is a Correctional Officer with the Met:

 

[aplusmnt]

Well we can add a little more Drama to this Joplin MO Shooting. The father has now been arrested. Turns out he was a convicted Felon years ago, something to do with Meth and Robbery.

As a Felon he is not allowed to posses firearms. Looks like he might end up winning Father of the Year Award. Guess him and son can celebrate together in Jail. :roll:

 

[Caustic Burno]

Speaking of liberels. By brother was a diehard eaten up with it liberal and anti-death penalty. When bussing started and his boys would have had to go to a predominantly black school he started to change, 10 years later when his son was murdered he became a convert.
He still called himself a liberal, but it was a pretty selective liberal.
Kind of funy that the only 2 things we really disagreed about was his earlier view on the death enalty and his problem with having the boys in the predominantly black school. And I'm a conservative.
The problem with the lables of liberal or conservative is that with a few rare exceptions, we're all a little of both. I think there are probably a lot more moderates then either of the other 2 categorys combined. The hard part is getting them stirred up enough to get out and do there duty and vote.
End of unpaid political announcement.

dun

Along the same line, I have found that not all Dems are Liberals. My parents are Democrats have been since they voted the first time for JFK in the 60's. But they have not got a liberal view in their body. I laugh some times and cry sometimes because they Vote Dem because that is the way they have always voted. They think the Dems are for the poor and Republicans are for the rich. But If you look at the top 100 issues facing politicians my parents would be on the right on all them.

They are just uneducated and set in their ways.

The Dems of my youth would be considered Republican today they had moral values and were for the working man not the Dems of today backing special intrest groups.

 

[john250]

The problem with the lables of liberal or conservative is that with a few rare exceptions, we're all a little of both. I think there are probably a lot more moderates then either of the other 2 categorys combined. The hard part is getting them stirred up enough to get out and do there duty and vote.
End of unpaid political announcement.

dun

It is a strange and wonderful system where candidates must run first toward the activists, who tend to be extreme but willing to spend money, and then run for the center as not to turn off the majority. The majority is always found in the center. Praise the Lord for that, as I recoil from the extremes of both the major parties.

 

[Wewild]

The Dems of my youth would be considered Republican today they had moral values and were for the working man not the Dems of today backing special intrest groups.

Most folks don't remember that it switched.

"Ask not what your country can do; ask what you can do for your country."

The quote was stolen from JFK.

 

[dun]

In todays climate it's hard to believe that Lincoln was the first Republican president

 

[Lammie]

To get back on the original subject. The 13 year old that was arrested in the Joplin MO shooting tried to break out of jail the other day, but was not successful.

The big debate around here now is rather they are going to try him as an Adult or a Juvenile.

With the risk of starting another heated debate any personal opinions on rather a 13 year old should be tried as an adult or not?

Old enough to do the crime old enough to do the time.

He'll do the time as a juvenile in a juvenile facility. Doing the time as a 13 year old in a state pen? That is wrong!

Alice

If he is sentenced to, say, 10 years, then he would serve his time at a juvenile facility until he is 18 and then continue his time in the adult judicial system.

As for No Child Left Behind, my opinion of it is that it has dummied down the curriculum in many schools in order to teach to the lowest common denominator. If children arent going to be successful taking the original tests, then the tests are made easier in order for the children to pass. Now, there is nothing wrong with modifying tests for special needs children, but what I think happens is that children will rise, or fall, to your expectations. If you expect a child of normal intelligence to succeed, then he will with the proper instruction. If you continue to make it easier for that child, he will stop trying as hard.

We have over 100 kids in content mastery, which is a service that is provided for kids that have trouble keeping up. We are a 3A school. Small. On the days they test, (bench marks), the halls are empty. It is sad.

 

[backhoeboogie]

In todays climate it's hard to believe that Lincoln was the first Republican president

Funny thing is Lincoln failed so many political aspirations. When he was elected November 6, 1860 - Lincoln received 180 of 303 possible electoral votes and only 40 percent of the popular vote. If that had not been a split election, he may not have been elected then either.

 

[VanC]

Along the same line, I have found that not all Dems are Liberals. My parents are Democrats have been since they voted the first time for JFK in the 60's. But they have not got a liberal view in their body. I laugh some times and cry sometimes because they Vote Dem because that is the way they have always voted. They think the Dems are for the poor and Republicans are for the rich. But If you look at the top 100 issues facing politicians my parents would be on the right on all them.

They are just uneducated and set in their ways.

Same with my folks. Grew up in Depression and WWII and were real big FDR people. Been voting Dem ever since (Dad is gone but Mom still alive). Mom has a picture of JFK hanging on her wall. I've tried to explain to her that if he were alive today, and in his prime, he wouldn't stand the remotest chance of getting the Democratic nomination. Waaaaay too conservative for the Dem party of today. And he was pro-life, which is the kiss of death if you want to run as a Democrat.

I started out like they did but have started voting mostly Rep the past 10-15 years. We have some fine local Dems around here but don't see too many on the national scene any more. (Actually, I don't see too many good leaders on the national scene, period, but the ones I do see are mostly Republican IMO).

I may have said this before, but I'll say it again : Ronald Reagan used to say "I didn't leave the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party left me". That's pretty much the way I feel about it. Dun is right though. Anyone who is 100% liberal or 100% conservative would be a very closed-minded and probably very dangerous person.

Anyway, I know this subject is supposed to be taboo on here, but I wanted to get my .02 in.

 

[Alice]

Students are taught to fight intruders:

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/15759624.htm

 

[peg4x4]

Students are taught to fight intruders:

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/15759624.htm

I saw that----same as airline passengers--For a long time it was "Sit tight,we're going to Cuba" Now it's "Let's roll!" Only logical to me,a swarm of 5th graders would make most anyone run..

 

[aplusmnt]

Students are taught to fight intruders:

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/15759624.htm

I saw that----same as airline passengers--For a long time it was "Sit tight,we're going to Cuba" Now it's "Let's roll!" Only logical to me,a swarm of 5th graders would make most anyone run..

Something just does not sound right to me. Not sure this is the smartest move. Hard for me to put my hand on it exactly. But teaching some grade school kids to attack a armed person just does not register.

I would like to see some statistics to how many times Guys with guns in schools were talked out of shooting anyone. In this Joplin MO case in the end the Kid left due to the Principals words not violence.

We might find that due to the media's exploiting of these things that you are safer to hide and hope they can negotiate withe the armed person. I would have to see some data before I made a choice. We do not always hear of the cases of school violence that were disarmed with no violence.

Now if a guy is shooting, and already killed maybe a teacher might have to say lets get this guy if he walks in our room. But not sure attacking at first sign of a gun is the smartest things for an 8 year old.

 

[Alice]

Students are taught to fight intruders:

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/15759624.htm

I saw that----same as airline passengers--For a long time it was "Sit tight,we're going to Cuba" Now it's "Let's roll!" Only logical to me,a swarm of 5th graders would make most anyone run..

Something just does not sound right to me. Not sure this is the smartest move. Hard for me to put my hand on it exactly. But teaching some grade school kids to attack a armed person just does not register.

I would like to see some statistics to how many times Guys with guns in schools were talked out of shooting anyone. In this Joplin MO case in the end the Kid left due to the Principals words not violence.
We might find that due to the media's exploiting of these things that you are safer to hide and hope they can negotiate withe the armed person. I would have to see some data before I made a choice. We do not always hear of the cases of school violence that were disarmed with no violence.

Now if a guy is shooting, and already killed maybe a teacher might have to say lets get this guy if he walks in our room. But not sure attacking at first sign of a gun is the smartest things for an 8 year old.

I thought the kid left 'cause his gun jammed.

I'm not saying I'm for or against this...I just thought the article interesting.

Alice