inyati13
Well-known member
Anyone have any knowledge or experience to share on In Force, 2593861?
Lucky_P":v66pjqsu said:Already told you what I know & like - and what I don't.
Topside - Hook's Shear Force 38K: calving ease, EXT-like udders, docility, marbling, ribeye, great API & TI.
Bottomside...not so much... rumors may be just rumors, but I've stayed away from MIF. LOT of folks used him, though.
In Force oughta sire calves that just fall out of 'em, though. But, the bull's just half the genetics; the walking Angus bull here has sired calves ranging from probably 50 # to 105# in the same calf crop - but different cows, contributing different genetic combination.
FlyingLSimmentals":oq0qi2ph said:Don't know really anything about the bull, but I personally don't like the looks of him in what pics I have seen. He isn't stylish enough for me. Have heard of people using him but I think it's because of his epd's more than anything else.
Lucky_P":spq6dtjc said:Ron
While the bull still has low accuracy on his epds, everything for several generations, top and bottom, is stacked for calving ease.
With the pre-partum issues you identified several weeks back and the relative 'over-conditioning' we're accustomed to seeing in your cattle, the 'blame', if any is there to be assigned, probably falls on the heifer. Certainly looked big enough that she should have been able to deliver a 112Y calf easily - but genes don't always align the way we expect them to.
But, an overconditioned heifer, with lots of intrapelvic fat may have difficulty delivering a calf that in a lesser BCS, she'd have just lain down and spit out uneventfully.
I understand your concern, but knowing what's behind this bull, I'd be sleeping peacefully while awaiting the next calf.
Lucky_P":30dg2enq said:You just need more cows, Ron.
Lucky_P":3iuxj6yq said:You can't predict everything.
We've been using Triple C Bettis as a CE(CED 18.5/BW 1.1) sire on heifers for a year or two now - calves have all been pretty small. But, I had a big, fat SHxAN heifer this week try to deliver one with a leg back. By the time I got that deal straightened out, she and the calf's head were so swollen that I didn't think I could get him out without killing one or both of 'em. Had to call in a veterinary colleague to do a C-section(I no longer have all the stuff I need to do one); got the calf out alive - big calf, but not HUGE, and no, I didn't weigh him. Calf and dam are doing well now.
Next day, another heifer bred the same way was in labor when I got home from work. Watched her for an hour and a half, didn't feel like she was making any headway, so I drove her to the barnlot and pulled it - everything was presented normally - big head, but not swollen, and I did pull it by hand - maybe if I'd left her alone, she'd have gotten him out... but I was gunshy.
Kinda sweating the last heifer in this group bred to Bettis, but at 7/8 Angus, she's not got much hybrid vigor or potential for high BW behind her, so I may be worrying needlessly.
redcowsrule33":3v1hpczw said:I have to wonder about the cow side of the situation, too, Inyati. I have a cow family that will have 100+ # calves bred to a Jersey. BUT they are built for it. What was Miss Miley's pedigree?
Lucky_P":jxeneeh3 said:Ron,
Need to also look at accuracies. At 0.31(112Y's acc. on CED epd), it's pretty low.
Granted, looking at what's behind him, it oughta be pretty believable - but until he gets some progeny reported, it's a guesstimate.
Bettis, the bull I've been using on heifers, has 0.91 acc on his 18.5 CED epd - pretty reliable, at least on paper. But, his full sib, Singletary (whom I have used - but not on heifers) has CED of 3.9 with .85 acc - still pretty reliable). That's a pretty wide spread for two full-sibs.
Why? - I'd say if you went solely on averages of parental performance, they'd be similar - but just like my two sons are very different from one another, so may the performance of progeny of two similarly-bred bulls differ.
EPDs are a 'population-based' estimate - with reported data from the bull/cow, their own offspring, closely-related individuals, and the population as a whole, influencing changes in the numbers. Too much math for me to wrap my feeble mind around.
Additionally, as the 'E' stands for 'expected'...you don't always get what you expect.