Hunting

[M-5]

Duck hunting is probably my favorite. And I love the taste. It is an expensive sport but and these same water holes that we shoot ducks in we also shoot dove and use lead. And if you've ever been to a fove shoot some people think you are supposed to shoot 10 boxes for a limit of 15 birds. It's all just a bunch of bs and I'm sure some of these regulators had there hand in the steel shot pot. My decoys have aabout a pound of lead attached to each line. I try not to lose them but it happens.

 

[Jogeephus]

Do you like the taste? Went to a fancy work dinner once where they served it. Thought it was kinda greasy and meh. Maybe I didn't have a "refined" enough palate (didn't care for the steak tartare appetizer either). We all pushed it around on our plates then went out for deep dish pepperoni.

I've never found duck to be greasy but I'm limited to shooting wood ducks and I love them. One of my favorite dishes is smoked Mandarin duck with wild rice. Its really delicious. I own some property known as the Horseshoe and its a duck haven. I used to just shoot them with no 6 low brass lead shells and didn't have any problem killing them with this but now, by law, you have to buy these "certified" steel shot duck rounds and they are expensive and just seem to maim them. I don't know if its too much velocity or if its the steel that passes right through.

I don't agree with this lead restriction. While I won't argue that lead could be toxic I think this is one of those regulations that is based on the possibility rather than the probability of it harming the ducks. I can't see where this is very likely since lead sinks and within no time the lead will be a foot or better under the muck. Also if you look at the increase in duck numbers you have to wonder how this happened if lead was killing so many ducks.

Incidentally, this same mindset has transferred over to defense and there is a mandate that all military bullets will be lead-free by 2020 or so. I have a friend who owns an ammunition factory and he gave me some of the prototypes he is working on to meet this mandate. They are zinc based alloy and are much less dense than a lead bullet. This will work out to higher muzzle velocities but I don't know how this will equate to impact energy downrange. Last I talked to him his work in this area is on hold because I think this mandate will soon be scrapped.

 

[dun]

When steel came in I quit duck/goose hunting. Still have the dekes somewhere. When I cooked them I put them on a rack that raised them about 1/2 inch from the bottom of the pan. All of the grease/oil was there and the bird was delicious.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Jo I think duck numbers went up because like a lot of people quit I did until they came out with an alternative safe to shoot in the classic guns.
Now I get a few Woodies ever year.
Before steel dad and I would put a couple hundred decoy spread with my
Uncle and cousin. We would have double barrels lined up in the boat hunting Sprigs (Pintail) on the bay.
Our favorite gauge was 16.
As you said low limits bad ammo it is just not worth it anymore.

 

[3waycross]

what's the actual price difference these days? Is it big?

There is still a pretty big difference between lead and steel. I think what you mare missing here is that YOU CANNOT USE LEAD FOR WATERFOWL HUNTING ANYWHERE ALREADY. That's why this is much ado about nothing. The amount of lead expended in those properties of which you speak by rimfire and centerfire firearms is literally negligible. As far as no lead rifle bullets they cost about the same or maybe a little more but they are a little funky to work with. There are also now some no lead rimfire varmint cartridges out there that work ok but their Ballistic co-efficient lags behind lead core bullets so their effective range is slightly diminished. The other real issue here is that their are literally millions of pounds of lead core or cast lead bullets out there that will still be continued to be used for generations to come (barring door to door confiscation)


This whole boondoggle started in California supposedly to protect the condors who were eating unrecovered rifle killed wildlife.....and like any good excuse to legislate away our 2nd amendment rights it has now snowballed across the nation.

 

[3waycross]

I think lead as far as waterfowl is concerned causes more wounded ducks that were not able to be recovered. Lead flies better and hits harder, which causes less lost/wounded game.

You want to stick with this statement?.........didn't you mean steel causes more wounded ducks?

 

[Ky cowboy]

I think lead as far as waterfowl is concerned causes more wounded ducks that were not able to be recovered. Lead flies better and hits harder, which causes less lost/wounded game.

You want to stick with this statement?.........didn't you mean steel causes more wounded ducks?

Yea I meant steel not lead. Need to proof read before hitting submit

 

[boondocks]

what's the actual price difference these days? Is it big?

There is still a pretty big difference between lead and steel. I think what you mare missing here is that YOU CANNOT USE LEAD FOR WATERFOWL HUNTING ANYWHERE ALREADY. That's why this is much ado about nothing. The amount of lead expended in those properties of which you speak by rimfire and centerfire firearms is literally negligible. As far as no lead rifle bullets they cost about the same or maybe a little more but they are a little funky to work with. There are also now some no lead rimfire varmint cartridges out there that work ok but their Ballistic co-efficient lags behind lead core bullets so their effective range is slightly diminished. The other real issue here is that their are literally millions of pounds of lead core or cast lead bullets out there that will still be continued to be used for generations to come (barring door to door confiscation)


This whole boondoggle started in California supposedly to protect the condors who were eating unrecovered rifle killed wildlife.....and like any good excuse to legislate away our 2nd amendment rights it has now snowballed across the nation.

Sounds like an issue we have here. We get deer hunters who don't get a clean shot then are too trifling to track the deer. I really care that much (I need all the deer gone that I can git gone) but it does seem unsporting to hit an animal then not try to recover it (understanding that there will always be a few that get away wounded)

 

[crop hail]

I had never been duck hunting until last year when couple of buddies and me bought a guided cast and blast down at Port O'Connor In a benefit auction that I was auctioneering. We have now gone on 2 trips with the same guide. Had a great time, none of us know a damn thing about ducks or duck hunting. The ducks down there are mostly all red heads and you can only kill 2 a day and there are THOUSANS of them. Doesn't make sense why the limit is only 2. At least the guide took us fishing in the afternoons because the duck hunts were sure short!!! CB, I agree with the steel/lead thing, we dove hunt around stock tanks and cases of lead are splashed into the water but if I wanted to shoot ducks on the same pond, I would have to have steel shot. Makes a lots of sense don't it!!!

 

[Caustic Burno]

I had never been duck hunting until last year when couple of buddies and me bought a guided cast and blast down at Port O'Connor In a benefit auction that I was auctioneering. We have now gone on 2 trips with the same guide. Had a great time, none of us know a be nice thing about ducks or duck hunting. The ducks down there are mostly all red heads and you can only kill 2 a day and there are THOUSANS of them. Doesn't make sense why the limit is only 2. At least the guide took us fishing in the afternoons because the duck hunts were sure short!!! CB, I agree with the steel/lead thing, we dove hunt around stock tanks and cases of lead are splashed into the water but if I wanted to shoot ducks on the same pond, I would have to have steel shot. Makes a lots of sense don't it!!!

If you ever get into Pintails my goodness are you in for some fun.
They will spiral down out of the stratosphere and they have a large jet rammed up their butt. You will get one pass out of that flock better make your shot count. They like open water on the bays.

 

[jedstivers]

Untold numbers of ducks are crippled with the bs steel. I've hit ducks so hard with good shots they are literally lifted up higher in the air only to have them fly off. That's with a 12 ga three and a half inch #4.
Same spot, same duck would come down dead with a 16ga #6.

 

[Dave]

Yet I was perfectly fine with saying we can do without lead ammo in national parks, wildlife refuges and other federal lands. I see that this has now been overturned.

Those "other federal lands" make up huge portions of states in the west. Some counties out here are 90% federal land so guess where the hunting is done. A few thousand rifle bullets in a county that is bigger than half a dozen eastern states sure isn't going to have a noticeable affect.
And the steel shot for ducks is a terrible injustice. I have hit ducks with steel shot where I completely turned the duck around and still had them fly off. There are certainly more ducks that fly off to die later with steel shot than ever died from picking up lead shot for grit.

 

[boondocks]

This has been a good discussion. Thanks to all for keeping it (relatively) civil so we didn't get locked. I'm still not 100% sure about the change but you have given me some good info to think on. :tiphat:

 

[3waycross]

This has been a good discussion. Thanks to all for keeping it (relatively) civil so we didn't get locked. I'm still not 100% sure about the change but you have given me some good info to think on. :tiphat:

I don't want to belabor the point but here's a little side note to what the others say about shooting ducks and geese with steel. I was goose hunting about a month ago and when we were done for the day I had a limit but had shot over a box of steel 12ga 3 1/2 in BBB shells. I was telling my buddy that I sure had shot bad and he laughed and said I watched you hit over 15 geese today and saw 4 drop. What do you think happened to the others. They died(somewhere else). So here's the stark reality. Had I been shooting lead I would probably have "killed" 4 birds. As it is I really "killed 15 birds without meaning to. Now do you think that those other 11 birds would have died from ingesting at the most 1 of those lead pellets apiece or maybe none since it was a barley field where it would most likely be disced under........BTW the birds I did bring home of the 4, 3 had broke wings. Otherwise they would have got away to die somewhere else also................the lead ban is :bs:

On a side note; My Dad who was a Dentist loved the switch to steel. He laughed all the way to the bank. If you bite a lead pellet you might not break a tooth. Try that with steel. I bit down on one and welded two gold crowns together in the process.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I used steel hard on the pattern board and in the field. Used to hunt southern Manitoba and the eastern Dakotas. Used to stone hovering snows with a scoped turkey shot gun. :idea: Lead is simpler and easier - - but non toxic can work if you open up your choke and your pocket book, and move up about 3 shot sizes.

Need 1s for jump shooting mallards to get penetration thru the back. Twos, or perhaps 3s, over decoys for mixed ducks. Fours are a special teal load at best. Geese are a bigger challenge. Steel 1s work if the birds are right in your face. Otherwise I always carry some of the spendy high density alloys in case steel BBs can not reach out.

 

[boondocks]

I used steel hard on the pattern board and in the field. Used to hunt southern Manitoba and the eastern Dakotas. Used to stone hovering snows with a scoped turkey shot gun. :idea: Lead is simpler and easier - - but non toxic can work if you open up your choke and your pocket book, and move up about 3 shot sizes.

Need 1s for jump shooting mallards to get penetration thru the back. Twos, or perhaps 3s, over decoys for mixed ducks. Fours are a special teal load at best. Geese are a bigger challenge. Steel 1s work if the birds are right in your face. Otherwise I always carry some of the spendy high density alloys in case steel BBs can not reach out.

wow I need Google Translator for that! :lol: Impressive summation, sir!

 

[Stocker Steve]

Dabbling ducks in very shallow water would be about the only place where lead amounts of lead shot "may" have an effect.

- A lot of the initial lead research was done in the eastern fly way. I don't think those city boys were very good shots, and some spots in the flyway were carpeted with lead.
- Bottom is a big fatality factor. Lead will sink out of birds reach in soft bottom areas, but lays there for years and years on hard bottom.
- Canada was practical for a while. You could use lead for field hunting (where it never got picked up by the birds), even after it was banned over water. We would leave the roosts alone, and sit out in an adjoining field with lead. Lead 2s really reach out. :nod:

 

[3waycross]

Dabbling ducks in very shallow water would be about the only place where lead amounts of lead shot "may" have an effect.

- A lot of the initial lead research was done in the eastern fly way. I don't think those city boys were very good shots, and some spots in the flyway were carpeted with lead.
- Bottom is a big fatality factor. Lead will sink out of birds reach in soft bottom areas, but lays there for years and years on hard bottom.
- Canada was practical for a while. You could use lead for field hunting (where it never got picked up by the birds), even after it was banned over water. We would leave the roosts alone, and sit out in an adjoining field with lead. Lead 2s really reach out. :nod:

When my Dad passed I found a whole case of Copper plated #2' lead in his ammo dump. Sure wish I could find a way to use the darned things.

 

[Stocker Steve]

When my Dad passed I found a whole case of Copper plated #2' lead in his ammo dump. Sure wish I could find a way to use the darned things.

Have tried them on late season pheasants. Birds flushed far enough out that the roosters looked black. Could scratch a pheasant down once in a while with the "golden BB", but these loads work much much better on predators.

 

[3waycross]

When my Dad passed I found a whole case of Copper plated #2' lead in his ammo dump. Sure wish I could find a way to use the darned things.

Have tried them on late season pheasants. Birds flushed far enough out that the roosters looked black. Could scratch a pheasant down once in a while with the "golden BB", but these loads work much much better on predators.

Never even thought about pheasants, pretty sure they are 3in. might try that. I bet they would wreck some havoc on a coyote at 40yds out of a turkey choke.

BTW being a 16ga nut it's pretty wonderful to find out that Dad had 2 cases of 16ga nitro express #6's hidden away. Now I can give my kids and grandkids all 16gauges and know that they can use them