Hobby Lobby in the news.....

[John SD]

I have never shopped at Hobby Lobby. Honestly had never heard of the company until quite recently.

Seems there has been a bit of publicity recently around a small legal skirmish involving Hobby Lobby, and Hobby Lobby won its case. :clap:

As a result of the outcome of the case, there seems to be a widespread boycott in the making by opponents of Hobby Lobby. :shock:

I'm thinking the best way I can support this boycott is to purchase some Hobby Lobby gift cards for all of my female friends! ;-)

My computer can't deal with the company website, so I'm going to call Hobby Lobby to order several gift cards first thing in the morning. :nod:

If you are inclined to do the same, FYI you can order gift cards online at http://shop.hobbylobby.com/gift-card/ or by telephone at 1-800-888-0321 during normal business hours 8A-5P M-F CDT.

 

[Deepsouth]

I don't get in there often but I can usually find a birthday or Christmas gift for the wife in there. She gives them plenty of business. I'm glad they won their case against Obama care, it's a good step toward preserving what's left of the constitution.

 

[chippie]

I have no problem with a person's religious freedom, but when a company is involved, I believe that this will open doors that may be hard to close.
Some other religions religious freedoms are not so nice. Hobby Lobby winning their case may end up biting America in the rear.

I do not agree with Obama Care, but I do believe that whatever health care that is offered, the choices made should be made by the individual, not the company they work for. You do know that Hobby Lobby's beef with Obama Care is that they do not want their female employees to have access to contraceptive coverage.

 

[Bez__]

Another example of the IMOM - Internet Manufactured Outrage Machine

Bez__

 

[Deepsouth]

I have no problem with a person's religious freedom, but when a company is involved, I believe that this will open doors that may be hard to close.


Some other religions religious freedoms are not so nice.

Really? Explain.


Hobby Lobby winning their case may end up biting America in the rear.

I do not agree with Obama Care, but I do believe that whatever health care that is offered, the choices made should be made by the individual, not the company they work for. You do know that Hobby Lobby's beef with Obama Care is that they do not want their female employees to have access to contraceptive coverage.

Wrong. It's not about contraception. It's about the abortion pills.

 

[WalnutCrest]

I've never really understood the outrage put to HL.

Heath insurance is a benefit offered by some employers. Sorta like a 401k (which may or may not have an employer match) or paid paternity leave -- some companies offer them, some don't.

So, if the company you're working for doesn't offer the benefits that matter to you and yours, then ask HR and/or senior management to change them ... and if they don't, then go get another job. If you did your last job at a high level, you shouldn't have too hard of a time finding similar work at a company that offers benefits more in line with what you need / want / expect.

If enough talent leaves HL, they'll go out of business.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

This is just further evidence that if you tell enough lies, often enough, people won't know the truth.

1. There is no war on contraception. It is that the company, owned by a family, does not wish to pay for abortion medications for employees, as they don't want to fund abortion.

2. It is their dang company, paid for by their sweat, tears and re-investment. They started out of their garage and it ballooned because of their work ethic. It would be like me coming to you and demanding that you pay for my girlfriend's abortion out of your cattle sale proceeds- because that is where the money is coming from to fund the health care- their pocket.

3. Their employees are very happy around here. They take great care of them. In 2012, their BOTTOM end was making $13, and they raised it to $14 an hour last year. That is much better than about any other local store here that has a similar business. Even if they didn't pay for contraception WHICH THEY DO, the girls or boys that are involved for that matter, could sure pay the $9 a moth it costs to get it.

Their reasoning for paying their staff so well, is that they didn't want them to have to work two jobs. They want them to be able to spend time at home with their families- what an evil corporation!

4. This is David vs Goliath. Would any of you that are against them dare take on the Fed Government's legal team placing your business in the balance? They did. It wasn't for financial gain and they had tons to lose. They thought that being able to have a right to religious freedom was important enough for all, that is just what they did. If Obamacare can force you to pay for abortions, what can it NOT force you to do? And by you, I mean your business. If you have an agricultural business, this crap is eventually going to apply to you. Everyone either works for a business, or owns one, unless you are a government employee/or dependent- then they already control your actions (Doubt this, try praying in school or government building). If they control all activity of all businesses, they control the country. That simple.

5. You can still buy the dang abortion pills at the local pharmacy yourself if you really want to murder your baby.

This was not a war on women, it was a war by the government on religious freedom. If you aren't for that, just piss it away like many have with all the other rights purchased for you by blood of people you have never known.

I don't understand why the founders did what they did. If they were nearly as intellectual as many claim, surely they had to know that eventually the weak would lay down their freedoms one by one to drink the free slop at the trough.

 

[boondocks]

Scientific consensus is that the birth control methods this FOR-PROFIT corporation wants to restrict do NOT work by destroying fertilized eggs. See, e.g., http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/06/health/research/morning-after-pills-dont-block-implantation-science-suggests.html Rather, they prevent fertilization in the first place (that's a GOOD thing if you don't want the abortion rate to go up due to unwanted pregnancies).

Those who applaud this decision are not conservatives. A true conservative does not believe a for-profit CORPORATION has all of the rights of a human being, nor that an employer has the right to dictate health care decisions to its employees. "Nanny state" detractors: take note.

Evangelical Christianity is not the only "religion", and those who think this is a great ruling will, I'm sure, feel the same way when Wiccans get a ruling that men don't get Viagra, or Mormons get a ruling that smokers don't get lung cancer treatment; or Hindus get a ruling that meat-eaters don't get cholesterol meds (or coronary bypasses, or stents, or....).

There has been a pretty sharp line between the rights of an INDIVIDUAL and those of a CORPORATION. This decision, and Citizens United, turn that jurisprudence on its head, taking away our individual rights and giving them to large for-profit corporations. Sorry, but I'm generally for the rights of individuals over corporations. If you want the benefits (limited liability, etc) of acting as a corporation, you should not get the benefits of being a individual also. Corporations aren't people, period, full stop.

Then there's this investigation showing that Hobby Lobby has made extensive investments in such birth control, abortion, etc. : http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morn ... ion-drugs/

See also, http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2 ... objection/

Where I come from, we call that situational ethics (or just a hypocrite).

 

[John SD]

I visited with my cousin and another neighbor lady who have shopped HL before. My cousin got some items at HL for a recent wedding. She told me where the local HL store is. Not in the mall but near the mall in Rapid City. My cousin shops HL often and loves the place.

I might just skip the online ordering thing and go in to the local store just to see what they have there. Looks like another cool windy day in the making here, so I don't want to be outside much anyway.

 

[John SD]

This is just further evidence that if you tell enough lies, often enough, people won't know the truth.

1. There is no war on contraception. It is that the company, owned by a family, does not wish to pay for abortion medications for employees, as they don't want to fund abortion.

2. It is their dang company, paid for by their sweat, tears and re-investment. They started out of their garage and it ballooned because of their work ethic. It would be like me coming to you and demanding that you pay for my girlfriend's abortion out of your cattle sale proceeds- because that is where the money is coming from to fund the health care- their pocket.

3. Their employees are very happy around here. They take great care of them. In 2012, their BOTTOM end was making $13, and they raised it to $14 an hour last year. That is much better than about any other local store here that has a similar business. Even if they didn't pay for contraception WHICH THEY DO, the girls or boys that are involved for that matter, could sure pay the $9 a moth it costs to get it.

Their reasoning for paying their staff so well, is that they didn't want them to have to work two jobs. They want them to be able to spend time at home with their families- what an evil corporation!

4. This is David vs Goliath. Would any of you that are against them dare take on the Fed Government's legal team placing your business in the balance? They did. It wasn't for financial gain and they had tons to lose. They thought that being able to have a right to religious freedom was important enough for all, that is just what they did. If Obamacare can force you to pay for abortions, what can it NOT force you to do? And by you, I mean your business. If you have an agricultural business, this crap is eventually going to apply to you. Everyone either works for a business, or owns one, unless you are a government employee/or dependent- then they already control your actions (Doubt this, try praying in school or government building). If they control all activity of all businesses, they control the country. That simple.

5. You can still buy the dang abortion pills at the local pharmacy yourself if you really want to murder your baby.

This was not a war on women, it was a war by the government on religious freedom. If you aren't for that, just be nice it away like many have with all the other rights purchased for you by blood of people you have never known.

I don't understand why the founders did what they did. If they were nearly as intellectual as many claim, surely they had to know that eventually the weak would lay down their freedoms one by one to drink the free slop at the trough.

Well said, Commercialfarmer :clap: :clap: :clap:

I recently attended a 2 day workshop at my local church where a priest who is a native of Uganda was the main speaker.

He noted that we in modern America have become soft and don't know what being persecuted for our faith means.

None of us here are likely to be killed for defending our faith. Christians are slaughtered every day in modern day Uganda as back in biblical times. Satanism is rampant. Uganda sounded to me like a real 3rd world hellhole. We don't know how good we've got it.

His proposed solution is that we as both Christians and Americans need to turn to prayer. Prayer to renew both our resolve and for the courage required take positive action to combat the accelerating moral decay of our modern society.

Too many of us (including myself) are reluctant to speak out for fear of offending someone. This has to change.

IMO, supporting HL against a boycott is a good start.

 

[chippie]

I still don't think that one person should make others pay for his ideals and religious freedom.

I do not support abortion, but I feel that a woman has a right to make her own choices. The person who makes the decision is the person who has to live with herself. Freedom of Choice.

How would you all feel if a Middle Eastern religion that is known to abuse women goes to the supreme court and requires that all female employees follow its dictates?

That is what I am talking about opening doors.

BTW, how do you all know the costs for the meds? And as far as the stores go about treating employees. It is not like that across the board. Our store has a very high turnover of help. The working environment depends on the management, not the head CEO or owner of the company.

ETA: The ruling covers all contraceptives (birth control). Not just the abortion pill. Funny, the CEO doesn't have a problem with allowing Viagra to be covered.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/30/supreme-court-hobby-lobby_n_5521444.html?1404138050

 

[denvermartinfarms]

With The type of work we do we dont have any female employees, but As a small business owner I certainly like the way this has gone. I would go out of business before supplying insurance to someone that included going against god.

 

[backhoeboogie]

The lady in Little Rock who has had 9 abortions probably should not apply at Hobby Lobby.

I have been in one of their stores once. Kind of neat - the craft stuff they stock for reasonable prices.

 

[slick4591]

I have no problem with a person's religious freedom, but when a company is involved, I believe that this will open doors that may be hard to close.

Would it matter if the U.S. Code read like this?

26 U.S. Code § 7701

1) Person

The term "person" shall be construed to mean and include an individual, a trust, estate, partnership, association, company or corporation.

 

[melking]

Boy, I am really torn here. While I do not believe in god, and I rarely agree with commercialfarmer, in this instance I believe that cf is right on the money.

 

[chippie]

playing devil's advocate. What if the religion was one that does not believe in any medical healthcare. No vaccinations, no preventative medicine, the only treatment for illnesses and injuries is prayer?

Also, birth control pills are not only used to prevent contraception. We have a friend whose teenage daughter has severe menstrual problems. So bad, that bc pills were prescribed to get her cycles regulated and such in check. Should she be denied coverage for prescriptions that cost almost $100 per month?

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

playing devil's advocate. What if the religion was one that does not believe in any medical healthcare. No vaccinations, no preventative medicine, the only treatment for illnesses and injuries is prayer?

Also, birth control pills are not only used to prevent contraception. We have a friend whose teenage daughter has severe menstrual problems. So bad, that bc pills were prescribed to get her cycles regulated and such in check. Should she be denied coverage for prescriptions that cost almost $100 per month?

Under the Hobby Lobby ruling she would not be affected.

The folks at HL only objected to providing the morning after pill and, I believe, IUDs. Not traditional birth control pills.

 

[backhoeboogie]

playing devil's advocate. What if the religion was one that does not believe in any medical healthcare. No vaccinations, no preventative medicine, the only treatment for illnesses and injuries is prayer?

Also, birth control pills are not only used to prevent contraception. We have a friend whose teenage daughter has severe menstrual problems. So bad, that bc pills were prescribed to get her cycles regulated and such in check. Should she be denied coverage for prescriptions that cost almost $100 per month?

1) You might attract employees that cannot get a job anywhere else. Or they may believe in your same religion.

2) Seems preventative medicines were not an issue with HL.

Chik Fila is still closed on Sundays here in TX. They were in the hoopla news not long ago and the rainbow groups were boycotting them. Seems that turned into a boon for them. My grandsons love to eat there. Not on Sunday tho!

 

[CottageFarm]

playing devil's advocate. What if the religion was one that does not believe in any medical healthcare. No vaccinations, no preventative medicine, the only treatment for illnesses and injuries is prayer?

Also, birth control pills are not only used to prevent contraception. We have a friend whose teenage daughter has severe menstrual problems. So bad, that bc pills were prescribed to get her cycles regulated and such in check. Should she be denied coverage for prescriptions that cost almost $100 per month?

Any private company should have the right to not offer health insurance benefits, or any other benefit of their choosing.
Any private citizen should have the right to decide for whom they will work. If a company doesn't offer the benefits they want, they can choose to work for a company that does.

I would also like to clarify the ruling made by the SCOTUS yesterday. It was a very narrow ruling that said that certain types of companies (those closely held and operated by a few individuals) could not be compelled to provide certain types of medications/devices, or the funding of the same, because it would be a violation of their 1st amendment rights. The courts specifically ruled that this decision in no way was contradictory to the execution of ACA rules as the work around has already been established for faith based organizations.
The suit brought by HL was very specific in its objection to post fertilization termination drugs and a couple of IUD's that can also terminate post fertilization. The company currently provides coverage for contraception prevention drugs and did so prior to the passage of ACA.

We do not give up our constitutional freedoms as individuals simply because we start a business. That was the gist of the Citizens United ruling, and personally I applaud that ruling.

 

[john250]

Scientific consensus is that the birth control methods this FOR-PROFIT corporation wants to restrict do NOT work by destroying fertilized eggs. See, e.g., http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/06/health/research/morning-after-pills-dont-block-implantation-science-suggests.html Rather, they prevent fertilization in the first place (that's a GOOD thing if you don't want the abortion rate to go up due to unwanted pregnancies).

Those who applaud this decision are not conservatives. A true conservative does not believe a for-profit CORPORATION has all of the rights of a human being, nor that an employer has the right to dictate health care decisions to its employees. "Nanny state" detractors: take note.

Evangelical Christianity is not the only "religion", and those who think this is a great ruling will, I'm sure, feel the same way when Wiccans get a ruling that men don't get Viagra, or Mormons get a ruling that smokers don't get lung cancer treatment; or Hindus get a ruling that meat-eaters don't get cholesterol meds (or coronary bypasses, or stents, or....).

There has been a pretty sharp line between the rights of an INDIVIDUAL and those of a CORPORATION. This decision, and Citizens United, turn that jurisprudence on its head, taking away our individual rights and giving them to large for-profit corporations. Sorry, but I'm generally for the rights of individuals over corporations. If you want the benefits (limited liability, etc) of acting as a corporation, you should not get the benefits of being a individual also. Corporations aren't people, period, full stop.

Then there's this investigation showing that Hobby Lobby has made extensive investments in such birth control, abortion, etc. : http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morn ... ion-drugs/

See also, http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2 ... objection/

Where I come from, we call that situational ethics (or just a hypocrite).

Did Nancy Pelosi deliver your copy of the "talking points" personally, or did you have get them from MSNBC?