Hereford Genetic Summit

[alexfarms]

Have you ever wondered why we still have so many horned Herefords when the polled gene is dominant and if nature were let take its course then the number of horned cattle in the breed should be slowly declining.

imo if they let mother nature take its course there would be no such thing as a polled hereford. imo there is way too much inconsistency, junk, whatever attached to the polled gene. sit at any sale barn, visit with any commercial hereford rancher or any feeder... there is no such thing as a commercial polled hereford ranch... maybe hobby but that about cover it. all opinion gathered all on my own.

I guess if we went by economic value then, there would be no such thing as a horned Hereford then either, IMO, as there is no economic profitability trait tied to the horned gene.

If nature took it's course there would be fewer polled cattle because the horned bulls beat the crap out of the polled bulls. Look at the Aleutian cattle for proof of that.

In that article I posted a link to in earlier in this thread it states scientists believe the reason the mutant recessive horn gene survived is because it increased the ability of the cattle to fight off predictors. Not very relavent today in the US and definately not rellavent if the horns have been sloped. The fact remains, without some type of selection pressure the dominant polled gene will over power the mutant recessive horn gene.

 

[Jake]

In that article I posted a link to in earlier in this thread it states scientists believe the reason the mutant recessive horn gene survived is because it increased the ability of the cattle to fight off predictors. Not very relavent today in the US and definately not rellavent if the horns have been sloped. The fact remains, without some type of selection pressure the dominant polled gene will over power the mutant recessive horn gene.

If human selection is working in favor of the polled gene yes. I don't know if fighting off predators is as much a factor as simply overpowering rival bulls. Horned bulls run with polled bulls in a natural setting will breed more cows and pass along that recessive gene more often because of their ability to whip the polled bull. I can tell you I would rather be hit with a round head than a pointed horn and cattle feel the same way.

 

[alexfarms]

In that article I posted a link to in earlier in this thread it states scientists believe the reason the mutant recessive horn gene survived is because it increased the ability of the cattle to fight off predictors. Not very relavent today in the US and definately not rellavent if the horns have been sloped. The fact remains, without some type of selection pressure the dominant polled gene will over power the mutant recessive horn gene.

If human selection is working in favor of the polled gene yes. I don't know if fighting off predators is as much a factor as simply overpowering rival bulls. Horned bulls run with polled bulls in a natural setting will breed more cows and pass along that recessive gene more often because of their ability to whip the polled bull. I can tell you I would rather be hit with a round head than a pointed horn and cattle feel the same way.

[/quote]

I've never set up a fight between a horned bull and a polled bull and I won't. I was surprised when a friend, who runs both horned and polled Herefords, told me the polled bull will whip the horned bull. He claims when the horns are turned down it broadens the surface area used to inflict the blow, while the point of the poll inflicts the same impact on a smaller surface area and inflicts a sharper blow and the polled bull wins.

 

[Jake]

In that article I posted a link to in earlier in this thread it states scientists believe the reason the mutant recessive horn gene survived is because it increased the ability of the cattle to fight off predictors. Not very relavent today in the US and definately not rellavent if the horns have been sloped. The fact remains, without some type of selection pressure the dominant polled gene will over power the mutant recessive horn gene.

If human selection is working in favor of the polled gene yes. I don't know if fighting off predators is as much a factor as simply overpowering rival bulls. Horned bulls run with polled bulls in a natural setting will breed more cows and pass along that recessive gene more often because of their ability to whip the polled bull. I can tell you I would rather be hit with a round head than a pointed horn and cattle feel the same way.

I've never set up a fight between a horned bull and a polled bull and I won't. I was surprised when a friend, who runs both horned and polled Herefords, told me the polled bull will whip the horned bull. He claims when the horns are turned down it broadens the surface area used to inflict the blow, while the point of the poll inflicts the same impact on a smaller surface area and inflicts a sharper blow and the polled bull wins.[/quote][/quote][/quote]


Exact opposite of what I have been told. Know of several guys out west that ran on large BLM ground and would run horned and polled bull together so they would separate and go with different sets of cows.

 

[smnherf]

In that article I posted a link to in earlier in this thread it states scientists believe the reason the mutant recessive horn gene survived is because it increased the ability of the cattle to fight off predictors. Not very relavent today in the US and definately not rellavent if the horns have been sloped. The fact remains, without some type of selection pressure the dominant polled gene will over power the mutant recessive horn gene.

If human selection is working in favor of the polled gene yes. I don't know if fighting off predators is as much a factor as simply overpowering rival bulls. Horned bulls run with polled bulls in a natural setting will breed more cows and pass along that recessive gene more often because of their ability to whip the polled bull. I can tell you I would rather be hit with a round head than a pointed horn and cattle feel the same way.

[/quote][/quote][/quote]

It doesn't really matter anyway as without human intervention very, very few of todays cattle could survive on their own. I choose to deal with reality and focus on economically important traits.

 

[Aaron]

I've never set up a fight between a horned bull and a polled bull and I won't. I was surprised when a friend, who runs both horned and polled Herefords, told me the polled bull will whip the horned bull. He claims when the horns are turned down it broadens the surface area used to inflict the blow, while the point of the poll inflicts the same impact on a smaller surface area and inflicts a sharper blow and the polled bull wins.

:bs:

 

[smnherf]

To get back on topic, I would encourage everyone to go to this summit and let them know what you think. Otherwise it will just be a bunch of academics and big money investment types providing direction for the breed. It is one of those things that you will learn just as much by visiting with the fellow attendees as the speakers.

 

[alexfarms]

I've never set up a fight between a horned bull and a polled bull and I won't. I was surprised when a friend, who runs both horned and polled Herefords, told me the polled bull will whip the horned bull. He claims when the horns are turned down it broadens the surface area used to inflict the blow, while the point of the poll inflicts the same impact on a smaller surface area and inflicts a sharper blow and the polled bull wins.

:bs:

Not, bs.

That pointy head gets sharp wth a ton of power behind it!!!

 

[Jake]

I've never set up a fight between a horned bull and a polled bull and I won't. I was surprised when a friend, who runs both horned and polled Herefords, told me the polled bull will whip the horned bull. He claims when the horns are turned down it broadens the surface area used to inflict the blow, while the point of the poll inflicts the same impact on a smaller surface area and inflicts a sharper blow and the polled bull wins.

:bs:

Not, bs.

That pointy head gets sharp wth a ton of power behind it!!!

Horned bull must have been the biggest p*88y around.

But to get back on smnherf's point. There are real things to discuss about the Hereford breed at this summit. Hereford is probably the hottest breed in the nation at the moment outside of angus. Hopefully this summit doesn't derail that momentum for you Hereford breeders.

 

[Elder Statesman]

I would think the majority of focus will be on feed efficiency. Hopefully it is a more balanced approach than in the previous decades. The Hereford breed just got to the point where commercial guys are starting to take it seriously again.

These are the two most intelligent posts on this whole topic. A lot of them sound like the conversations at the salebarn and barbershop.

Jake, that is the fear of many, someone sitting in an office screwing this thing up.

However, I did get a chuckle out of Aaron's :bs:

 

[alexfarms]

I would think the majority of focus will be on feed efficiency. Hopefully it is a more balanced approach than in the previous decades. The Hereford breed just got to the point where commercial guys are starting to take it seriously again.

These are the two most intelligent posts on this whole topic. A lot of them sound like the conversations at the salebarn and barbershop.

Jake, that is the fear of many, someone sitting in an office screwing this thing up.

However, I did get a chuckle out of Aaron's :bs:

"Jake, that is the fear of many, someone sitting in an office screwing this thing up"

That is why you need to go.

 

[buymorebulls]

The Hereford breed can't even begin to make progress as long as members are still debating horn vs. poll.

We expect our bulls to go breed cows not spend time fighting each other. That's the bull(s) that sires the most calves, not the "dominant horned" or "dominant polled" fighting bull.

 

[alexfarms]

The Hereford breed can't even begin to make progress as long as members are still debating horn vs. poll.

We expect our bulls to go breed cows not spend time fighting each other. That's the bull(s) that sires the most calves, not the "dominant horned" or "dominant polled" fighting bull.

I agree. There are some super herds of both polled and horned Hereford cattle that are marketing their cattle very well and more power to them.

 

[farmguy]

For what it's worth I have farm magazines from the 1940s, 50s and 60s. The same argument was going on then as horned breeders were competing for sales with the new polled breeders. The same magazines had people dead set against diesels, hybrid corn and TV to mention a few.