heifer's 2nd calf vs. first

[backhoeboogie]

Brush hogging with a sickle is going to wear out that rotator cup and give you some big medical expenses.

 

[Brute 23]

I am looking at the books right now for one place. Since 10/24/06 to the current date it has cost me $112.50/ head on the cow/ calf side.

You must be riding a tri-cycle. No fuel cost at all. Are driving your cows to the sale barn with the old fashion cattle drive method? No tractor or equipment depreciation either but you are still going to need a new handle for that hoe after tilling all those acres by hand. How are you paying for the electricity to power that computer you are setting at? Solar? You are still going to need to depreciate that solar generator.

No tilling, we have people who haul the cattle, electricity is part of the lease, ect... I don't know what to say. No planting spring grass then winter grass. IF we do any thing that is plant coastal because it starts growing at the beggining of Feb and keeps us from having to feed in the winter until December. No ground feed... every thing is rasied on grass...

What about the #s... I did not see a comment to that? I used your $350 on that. Yall dodge more stuff than the Pres. Canidates. :lol2: I want to hear your response to the math.

 

[backhoeboogie]

I am looking at the books right now for one place. Since 10/24/06 to the current date it has cost me $112.50/ head on the cow/ calf side.

You must be riding a tri-cycle. No fuel cost at all. Are driving your cows to the sale barn with the old fashion cattle drive method? No tractor or equipment depreciation either but you are still going to need a new handle for that hoe after tilling all those acres by hand. How are you paying for the electricity to power that computer you are setting at? Solar? You are still going to need to depreciate that solar generator.

No tilling, we have people who haul the cattle, electricity is part of the lease, ect... I don't know what to say. No planting spring grass then winter grass. IF we do any thing that is plant coastal because it starts growing at the beggining of Feb and keeps us from having to feed in the winter until December. No ground feed... every thing is rasied on grass...

What about the #s... I did not see a comment to that? I used your $350 on that. Yall dodge more stuff than the Pres. Canidates. :lol2: I want to hear your response to the math.

The $350 a cow is just for an example. My costs are considerably higher. For instance $66 an acre for fertilizer.

Take that $90K, buying heavy bred cows, let them calve, have them bred by your bull, and haul them back to the sale barn and hopefully recoup your original investment within the fiscal year. Play the numbers any way you like. While they were on your property you fed them, they figured into fencing repair costs, fuel cost, fertilizer and equipment depreciation.

About that lease you speak of with electricity furnished, are you figuring in that lease money into your expense per head?

Also, you keep using the "we" term. I don't understand we. All I have is me.

This hi-jack has gone way beyond reason. Cypress, I apologize. My only real point is it is very expensive to expand a herd in these times for ME. Hence, I understand the good advice offered outside of this argument between Brute and myself.

 

[Brute 23]

I don't know what to say with out posting my spreadsheet on the e-net for all to see. We have found a way to spend very little on cattle and because of the market we are making good money back.

We is myself and the operations I take care of. I have teamed up with several business men that have made there money else where and now have bought ranches/ property. They are dead set in finding out if they can run cattle and make a profit. It has been a huge benefit to the way I think... to have people like that to work with. They can break down what you think you need... and what you actually need in a hurry. I am there for the knowledge of raising cattle and they are there for the knowledge of business. So many cattle men these day are all about the cattle and not the business then complain they don't make money.

They preach moving slow and not getting bogged down with over head. Part of that is contracting things out to keep large expenses such as tractors, trailers, $50K diesel trucks, ect... from backing you into a corner. That has a big deal to do with in case of a dought and we have to sell cattle or what ever we are not missing payments to any one. (If its a drought year and we are short on cash we are not making payments on a tractor and shredder that we don't need at that time. We just don't call So and So's Custom Shredding and save the money. Get it next year if things are going better.)

I was very skeptical about some of this but as it has played out it actually works. We have slowly built up an operation free of debt except for the initial purchasing of cattle. These men are all about looking at the books, the numbers, best case, worst case. Got to have every single thing documented to be able to look back on.

I was also born and raised ranching on family land which I am also now contributing and managing partner in. So we is any one I associate with in cattle and have learned some thing with.

It is not the only way.. but it is working for us now. Not saying what yall do doesn't work... but you will not see me come on here and complain there is no money to be made in cattle. I enjoy people trying to gind holes... that is to our benefit. Yall may think of some thing we are missing. I have no shame is saying I am wrong, when I am. :tiphat:

 

[dyates]

Same old song, different day. Maximum inputs, maximum outputs vs. minimum inputs, minimum outputs. You're probably both right and both wrong at the same time. Focus on optimal inputs and optimal outputs. There is a huge difference in most cases between the optimum and either the minimum or maximum. We all better be working hard to figure our optimums.

 

[Brute 23]

Same old song, different day. Maximum inputs, maximum outputs vs. minimum inputs, minimum outputs. You're probably both right and both wrong at the same time. Focus on optimal inputs and optimal outputs. There is a huge difference in most cases between the optimum and either the minimum or maximum. We all better be working hard to figure our optimums.

So true.. its all relative.

 

[backhoeboogie]

We is myself and the operations I take care of. I have teamed up with several business men that have made there money else where and now have bought ranches/ property. They are dead set in finding out if they can run cattle and make a profit.

Congratulations Brute. One partner with capital is hard to find. Do you care to share your secret on finding several to buy ranches?

 

[Caustic Burno]

We is myself and the operations I take care of. I have teamed up with several business men that have made there money else where and now have bought ranches/ property. They are dead set in finding out if they can run cattle and make a profit.

Congratulations Brute. One partner with capital is hard to find. Do you care to share your secret on finding several to buy ranches?

So he is saying he is the hired help boogie?

 

[backhoeboogie]

We is myself and the operations I take care of. I have teamed up with several business men that have made there money else where and now have bought ranches/ property. They are dead set in finding out if they can run cattle and make a profit.

Congratulations Brute. One partner with capital is hard to find. Do you care to share your secret on finding several to buy ranches?

So he is saying he is the hired help boogie?

He used the terms "partner" and "teamed up". I also read "lease" and there were many "we" statements. At some points he puts it as if he is running several places and uses "spread sheets". He hires all the cattle hauling and other things done. The "several" investors buying ranches to see if they can make a profit with cattle thing really got me to wondering. I never heard the word employee though.

 

[Brute 23]

Pure luck... :lol2:

I started working for two of them during high school when I had a lawn mowing business. They had a guy at the first origal place that was taking care it it for them. He moved on and I started taking care of the place.
While attending college I convinced them to run their own cattle on their property and to get rid of the guy that was leasing it from them.
Then I also proposed for them to go in and purchase some raw land that we could clean up and resale to all the people that are coming out of Houston paying $5k/ acre. We buy at $1500 an acre and resale at $3500 and acre,, that's a whole nother topic. We did some of that while I was in college.
After I graduated and got my real estate license they got two more close friends that had invested on other deals with them. They all started buying up properties that I manage where we run cattle, do hunts, or will rent out for weddings, business meetings, ect...
I was very lucky to meet them but I did them right and got their trust. Every time we do a deal I am offered x% of the business as pay for work along with a small salary.
Most people would think since I work for/ with people with pleanty of money it is easy... but they run a tight business. If it can not support itself at the least it gets scrapped. I have proposed far more that we do now, some failed, some never got past planning.

 

[Brute 23]

My father says I am a professional Kiss @$$/ con man and get paid to do spend others money. He says he has no clue how I convinced two guys to pay me to learn how to run a bussiness and manage their stuff for them. :nod: :mrgreen:

On a serious side what I have said is really true. I am not sure who all it will work for but it will for some others. I just post so that maybe others can get an idea or a bit of info and use it for their own benefit. I would not post any thing to mislead some one into spending money or time on some thing. I know how alot of people have alot of money and hard hours invested in their cattle. I was raised butchering calves when we needed meat to eat and selling calves when bills were do, not at Xamount of days because so and so says that is the "optimal weaning time". ;-)

 

[Caustic Burno]

Thanks Cypress for starting a good thread to debate on.
Sorry to say it is now .

 

[Wewild]

My father says I am a professional Kiss @$$/ con man and get paid to do spend others money.

I'd say he's right.

Show us a list of the expenses in the $112.

 

[cypressfarms]

Thanks Cypress for starting a good thread to debate on.
Sorry to say it is now .

I tried Caustic.....

I'm going watch Rio Bravo and John Wayne on AMC. :cboy:

 

[Brute 23]

My father says I am a professional Kiss @$$/ con man and get paid to do spend others money.

I'd say he's right.

Show us a list of the expenses in the $112.

I will. I need to take some of the names out first. This is a small place that is actually still paying off buying the herd. ;-) It is simular to some one wanting to start up.

I am all for learning if some one can show me some thing I am missing. No shame here.

 

[Alice]

My father says I am a professional Kiss @$$/ con man and get paid to do spend others money.

I'd say he's right.

Show us a list of the expenses in the $112.

I will. I need to take some of the names out first. This is a small place that is actually still paying off buying the herd. ;-) It is simular to some one wanting to start up.

I am all for learning if some one can show me some thing I am missing. No shame here.

I've followed this thread and watched as it went south...and decided it wasn't worth even trying to really understand...until all the chest bumping started.

Wewild, shame on you...in fact, shame on all of you. Altho, no less could be expected of Camp Caustic...especially his "potty" humor.

You know what, Brute? You don't have to show any such thing...you don't have to prove any such thing...if you aren't comfortable doing that. Don't you let any of these people try to shame you or push you into divulging anything that has to do with your business...or lack thereof, for that matter...especially on the freakin' internet!

Alice

 

[Brute 23]

I've followed this thread and watched as it went south...and decided it wasn't worth even trying to really understand...until all the chest bumping started.

Wewild, shame on you...in fact, shame on all of you. Altho, no less could be expected of Camp Caustic...especially his "potty" humor.

You know what, Brute? You don't have to show any such thing...you don't have to prove any such thing...if you aren't comfortable doing that. Don't you let any of these people try to shame you or push you into divulging anything that has to do with your business...or lack thereof, for that matter...especially on the freakin' internet!

Alice

Same old thing... people crying because they aren't making money and trying to find any thing they can against people who are. Heaven forbid they are doing some thing wrong. :lol2:

Its ok, if the few who spoke out against only knew of all those who PMed me or E-mailed me that agree with what I am saying. I was told multiple times to give up, "they" will never understand. :lol:

If any one wants to acually look at the books I will e-mail them for this one small place (160ac.) that I helped get started up. I sold the guy the property and he gives me a little money to kind of consult and help out when necessary. He leases the land from himself, buys hay, pays to have cattle worked and hauled. It is actually paying for itself. Just PM me.

 

[backhoeboogie]

No need to post the spread sheet as far as I am concerned. We have figured out how you do $112 for 15 months; no expenses for anything out of your own pocket.

 

[backhoeboogie]

I've followed this thread and watched as it went south...and decided it wasn't worth even trying to really understand...until all the chest bumping started.
Alice

Alice I was watching too and trying to learn. (edit: Cypress's informatin was excellent) Then I thought I smelled a rat and got back into the discussion.

The very best long time cattle folks I know are spending well over (way over) $112.50 for 15 months. Folks who own their farms and pay cash for items they purchase. Some of those old timers can squeeze a lot of juice out of a lemon and they aren't doing so well these days.

Alice you know how bad the flies are in this area. Innoculations, Rabon mineral, immunizations, ear tags, and you have already dropped a lot of nickels into each cow.

Then you lose fence to flooding and to the water trucks running into them. Repairs to that alone pro-rated over the herd puts me marginally close to the $112 for last year. Those things were way beyond my control.

Sorry for offending you. It wasn't my intent.

 

[Alice]

I've followed this thread and watched as it went south...and decided it wasn't worth even trying to really understand...until all the chest bumping started.
Alice

Alice I was watching too and trying to learn. (edit: Cypress's informatin was excellent) Then I thought I smelled a rat and got back into the discussion.

The very best long time cattle folks I know are spending well over (way over) $112.50 for 15 months. Folks who own their farms and pay cash for items they purchase. Some of those old timers can squeeze a lot of juice out of a lemon and they aren't doing so well these days.

Alice you know how bad the flies are in this area. Innoculations, Rabon mineral, immunizations, ear tags, and you have already dropped a lot of nickels into each cow.

Then you lose fence to flooding and to the water trucks running into them. Repairs to that alone pro-rated over the herd puts me marginally close to the $112 for last year. Those things were way beyond my control.

Sorry for offending you. It wasn't my intent.

Oh, BHB, you did not offend me...my statement was painted with too broad a brush. I was trying, in my own convoluted way, to warn against posting something like business books/spreadsheets on an internet message board...especially if one felt pushed into it to try to prove their point.

I was a little quick to pull the trigger on people that I know to be honest...you being one of them. My apologies to you for that.

Alice