Heifer trying to calve....no calf

[Gale Seddon]

I've been following this thread, keeping my fingers crossed. Sorry about the calf, but happy for the heifer and for you after such a trying time. I'm sure you are grateful for all the support from the CT calving team!

 

[KNERSIE]

Just a last bit of unasked for advice....

20cc Penicilin every day for the next 5 days will do wonders to making her breed back sooner.

 

[hillsdown]

Just a last bit of unasked for advice....

20cc Penicilin every day for the next 5 days will do wonders to making her breed back sooner.

I am sure that is why Lexi finally got up ,I was always sticking her with a needle so she wouldn't get an infection or bed sores. :???: However it did do wonders and looks like she bred back with the first heat of exposure . Good Advice ,if they can get near her again. ;-)

 

[regolith]

Sounds good advice Knersie, I'm wishing now I'd done that with a couple of mine... counted up & realised I'm hoping to breed *4* out of 53 2 yr olds that I know have uterine infections, frustrating since I've never seen that many before, that's nearly 10% and they've all failed to clear up with treatment.
Ah - good reminder, that's what I came on the internet for, to find out more about this.

So how about if you start that 5 days treatment 14 weeks after calving...? One of them's sick now, started her on pen yesterday running a high temperature apart from that and still having the uterine infection haven't a clue what is up with her.

 

[KNERSIE]

Sounds good advice Knersie, I'm wishing now I'd done that with a couple of mine... counted up & realised I'm hoping to breed *4* out of 53 2 yr olds that I know have uterine infections, frustrating since I've never seen that many before, that's nearly 10% and they've all failed to clear up with treatment.
Ah - good reminder, that's what I came on the internet for, to find out more about this.

So how about if you start that 5 days treatment 14 weeks after calving...? One of them's sick now, started her on pen yesterday running a high temperature apart from that and still having the uterine infection haven't a clue what is up with her.

I have no idea, the idea is to prevent infection in high risk cases. I think if there is already an infection you need to bump the dosage up and in the case of one not clearing up I have seen a change in antibiotic do wonders even though it shouldn't have been the drug of choice in the first place.

 

[hillsdown]

Rego have you tried Excenel on her ?
I would also give her a shot of prostaglandin too if you haven't yet .

Here is a good link : http://www.das.psu.edu/research-extensi ... terine.pdf

 

[wbvs58]

Prostaglandin is a good idea, years ago we used a long acting oestrogen (ECP) on them to open the cervix and tone up uterus to push the sh$t out, the advent of prostaglandin superseded this but the effect was still the same to get them cycling.
Ken

 

[cow pollinater]

Prostaglandin. :nod: I don't think I'd spend to much money trying to get her bred back though. Long lasting clinical metritis causes scar tissue that basically walls off the inside of the uterus so that even if she drops clean mucus and shows great heats she's not capable of concieving.

 

[hillsdown]

Prostaglandin. :nod: I don't think I'd spend to much money trying to get her bred back though. Long lasting clinical metritis causes scar tissue that basically walls off the inside of the uterus so that even if she drops clean mucus and shows great heats she's not capable of concieving.

Or, if they do conceive it results in a mummified calf sometimes . However in dairy you will get another lactation even if no calf so that is not such a burden if dealt with properly.

Hard to remember back that far, it has been over 10 years now that I have had to deal with any of this on such an intense level.

 

[regolith]

I looked at Merck and it said prostaglandin is the drug of choice - you know vets don't give out pgf2a here, they administer it themselves and the vet has seen this animal (and the others) twice ??
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index ... 111002.htm

Anyway, I think I need serious discussion with him about the plan of attack for next year because what I'm doing this year isn't working. I'll be back in at the vets for more antibiotics this week anyway - excenel isn't on my prescription but it isn't hard to get drugs added as long as there's a vet in the clinic to approve it.

When have you ever seen a lactation result from a mummified calf HD? I lost one of my good cows out on lease that way last year, idiots tried to induce her and apparently managed to kill the calf without effecting birth, I was told the vet ripped her uterus some months later trying to extract it and she had to be destroyed. I've known maybe one or two cows with mummified calves, they didn't calve on time or lactate.

Oestrogen was a good drug - banned now. The vet thought maybe the clovers on the farm was having an oestrogenic effect... certainly they've cycled well until a little way into the AI season they all suddenly stopped. Given the condition score and feed supply, cycling well is about the last thing you'd expect.

 

[dun]

Usually the estrogen type affect only affects sheep.

 

[jilleroo]

Some interesting reading going on in this thread....just an update on the heifer, she's doing well. I bushgated her out into a bigger paddock straight after we pulled the calf so she could rest and recuperate peacefully. Saw her this morning, she looks knocked about of course, but is grazing and walking well, no hunched back or anything. We won't be breeding her again, she'll go to sale.
Have had a dreadful run of **** stuff happening since the incident with her - will write about it in the Aussie thread!

 

[hillsdown]

I looked at Merck and it said prostaglandin is the drug of choice - you know vets don't give out pgf2a here, they administer it themselves and the vet has seen this animal (and the others) twice ??
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index ... 111002.htm

Anyway, I think I need serious discussion with him about the plan of attack for next year because what I'm doing this year isn't working. I'll be back in at the vets for more antibiotics this week anyway - excenel isn't on my prescription but it isn't hard to get drugs added as long as there's a vet in the clinic to approve it.

When have you ever seen a lactation result from a mummified calf HD? I lost one of my good cows out on lease that way last year, idiots tried to induce her and apparently managed to kill the calf without effecting birth, I was told the vet ripped her uterus some months later trying to extract it and she had to be destroyed. I've known maybe one or two cows with mummified calves, they didn't calve on time or lactate.

Oestrogen was a good drug - banned now. The vet thought maybe the clovers on the farm was having an oestrogenic effect... certainly they've cycled well until a little way into the AI season they all suddenly stopped. Given the condition score and feed supply, cycling well is about the last thing you'd expect.

Rego I have had it happen twice , waited for them to calve, calf was mummified . We induced ,per vet instructions , and pulled dead calf out. Milked them/her never rebred her, shipped her when dry.

I cannot believe that you are not allowed to use Prostaglandin without a vet , you run a flippen dairy herd !! How the h@ll are you supposed to make a go of it if you have to call them out for everything .. Sorry, wish I could be more help. I do agree that you need to put your foot down and HE needs to come up with something viable for you . I would be beyond pe'd off at this point .

 

[regolith]

That was an interesting link Hillsdown, thanks. Not sure how I missed it the first time.

Dun, the sugestion that clovers might be having an effect arose because I kept one of the two heifers that were open; and asked the vet to pd her last time he was here because she's making an udder and I'd missed seeing her last couple of cycles - though even if a neighbour's bull had got her it's way too early to see an udder. He called her still open and she cycled about ten days later and has been bred. She's still got a rather well-defined udder.

 

[dun]

That was an interesting link Hillsdown, thanks. Not sure how I missed it the first time.

Dun, the sugestion that clovers might be having an effect arose because I kept one of the two heifers that were open; and asked the vet to pd her last time he was here because she's making an udder and I'd missed seeing her last couple of cycles - though even if a neighbour's bull had got her it's way too early to see an udder. He called her still open and she cycled about ten days later and has been bred. She's still got a rather well-defined udder.

I did some research into the estrogen deal about 10 years ago when one of our pastures after 3 years of drought just took off in clover and practically choked out the grass. We never had bloat issues but the girls were always very well rounded and didn;t cycle until about 3 months post calving. I thought maybe the clover was the problem. Don;t guess it was since as soon as they started cycling they all settled first service except one lunatic that was raising twins and decided to try to make a greasy spot on the ground out of me. She was tough as wang leather but really great tasting burger.

 

[regolith]

That would describe these pastures also - haven't used bloat oil this season and haven't seen a problem, touch wood, the clover plants are just starting to flower now.
I haven't figured out how many are holding to the AI yet, but it looks pretty normal.

One of the vets at the clinic gave me four doses of prostaglandin (estrumate) drawn into syringes and a reminder to wear gloves, plus excede which I haven't used before. It's nearly two months meat withholding, so those heifers won't be going anywhere soon. Whatever was up with the sick one, the penicillin put her straight back to normal. All four are out with bulls - I drafted all the non-cyclers and dry cows out of the main milking herd this morning.

 

[regolith]

Well, my luck ran out regarding the bloat :-(
No warning symptoms seen. Just two dead cows. So they're getting bloat oil now, and usually at this time of year the danger period is over.

 

[Gale Seddon]

Sorry, regolith.

What is bloat oil? I know we have something called "Therabloat" (poloxalene) here.

 

[regolith]

alcohol ethoxylate is what I use. The stuff I had was jelly, so I mixed it in hot water and hope it's okay - cleaning out my drench system after every use to make sure it doesn't solidify in the smaller bore lines.
It's lethal to calves still on milk, so you have to be very careful if adding it to water troughs or mixing it alongside the calf feeding equipment.