This charbray heifer has been threatening to calve for the last 24 hours, restless, lying on her side intermittently, all bagged up. When there was no calf this morning, I put an arm in but she was very tight, not dilated at all, and quite dry. Her efforts have escalated during the day, she is lying on her side pushing, quite desperate. I put my arm in again, she is still not dilated much. I could not feel any sign of a calf, there is nothing in her pelvic area. I'm experienced with calving heifers, not a newbie. Has anyone struck this before? She's been trying to calve for so long now but is still tight around her back end, just losing a small amount of mucus.
Heifer trying to calve....no calf
- Thread starter jilleroo
- Start date
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rockridgecattle
Well-known member
When you put your arm in, does it feel like it wants to twist?
rockridgecattle
Well-known member
There is a good chance that if your arm does not twist, that the calf has not positioned itself and either the head is down and twisted back and the feet are down as well.
We have had this happen 2x. Once we got the calf out, but the cow never bred back. Second time we decided to take her in to save the cow to breed back.
If i remember you are not near a vet right? You need to go deep in..as far as the your shoulders can go and find the sack. If she has been in labor that long, she is in trouble.
If the head is back, you will need oxytocin to dilate her as far as she can go. If i remember you are not near a vet right?
We have had this happen 2x. Once we got the calf out, but the cow never bred back. Second time we decided to take her in to save the cow to breed back.
If i remember you are not near a vet right? You need to go deep in..as far as the your shoulders can go and find the sack. If she has been in labor that long, she is in trouble.
If the head is back, you will need oxytocin to dilate her as far as she can go. If i remember you are not near a vet right?
hillsdown
Well-known member
I am thinking the calf is far back and malpresented too. Sorry Jill, do not know what to say besides wait or you do a c section as you are all aways from a vet .
hillsdown
Well-known member
Sorry read again and if your arm can go in past the cervix you should be able to get the calf out .
Good luck .
Good luck .
Really I just feel like crying....it's been one of those days. The heifer is still the same - I can't find anything that feels like a calf.
I cannot tell if she has a twisted uterus - maybe she has. She's still got her belly like the calf is still right down but is in full labour.
Going back to her now to have another feel, poor thing.
I cannot tell if she has a twisted uterus - maybe she has. She's still got her belly like the calf is still right down but is in full labour.
Going back to her now to have another feel, poor thing.
Rockridge and Hillsdown - I've just put my arm in again, greased it up well, got a box to stand on and got it in as far as possible.
Everything is still way back. I can just get two fingers through the cervix - I can feel the calf's eye. Everything is tight as.
Why is she labouring? She's been on her side most of the day, hasnt eaten any hay. Just had a drink now.
Another one just popped out a calf after turning around twice, no fuss at all...
Everything is still way back. I can just get two fingers through the cervix - I can feel the calf's eye. Everything is tight as.
Why is she labouring? She's been on her side most of the day, hasnt eaten any hay. Just had a drink now.
Another one just popped out a calf after turning around twice, no fuss at all...
rockridgecattle
Well-known member
Jilleroo,
A twisted uterus will feel like your hand and arm want to rotate. There is no choice in the matter, you go in palm down but the fingers want to twist. It would also make it feel like she is not dilated.
Two possibles
1. shes not ready and she is having a hard time turning the calf
2. head first no feet can be a problem, let me rephrase...is a problem. Feel for the feet, and then pinch the feet hard, sign of life yet. Or pinch the tongue
Is the calf still in the sack?
If you are ready to go back in and give it a go, and if the calf has life, have some epinphrine on hand for the calf, dophram too if possible. And you need oxy for the cow...definitely post calving if you did not give pre calving.
A twisted uterus will feel like your hand and arm want to rotate. There is no choice in the matter, you go in palm down but the fingers want to twist. It would also make it feel like she is not dilated.
Two possibles
1. shes not ready and she is having a hard time turning the calf
2. head first no feet can be a problem, let me rephrase...is a problem. Feel for the feet, and then pinch the feet hard, sign of life yet. Or pinch the tongue
Is the calf still in the sack?
If you are ready to go back in and give it a go, and if the calf has life, have some epinphrine on hand for the calf, dophram too if possible. And you need oxy for the cow...definitely post calving if you did not give pre calving.
Rockridge, the uterus isnt twisted. The calf is still firmly in the sack. I can just run the tip of my longest finger around an eye socket (I think). I have no chance of getting ahold of the calf. Waiting and hoping is all we can do.
I've done head first no feet births, upside down no front feet births, breech births, run the full gamut over the years but this one has me stumped.
Thankyou for your concern, it makes me feel better, will let you know what happens overnight.
Hubby is around and will help if required, but there's nothing he can do.
Unfortunately I can't get hold of any of those good drugs you suggest! I have dex and pen at the moment.
I've done head first no feet births, upside down no front feet births, breech births, run the full gamut over the years but this one has me stumped.
Thankyou for your concern, it makes me feel better, will let you know what happens overnight.
Hubby is around and will help if required, but there's nothing he can do.
Unfortunately I can't get hold of any of those good drugs you suggest! I have dex and pen at the moment.
rockridgecattle
Well-known member
Dang on the drugs. Is it because they are not allowed in AU? Even Epi?
If the calf is still in the sack, then either she is not ready or something is up...either way good it is still in the sack
I have never been able to run the tip of my finger in the eye socket. Have to ask, how far is your arm in?
Best of luck...it is 230 am here...I should be sleeping, too much pepsi. Pepsi is not something i usually drink alot of, any ways i need to try and get some sleep
I will check back later to see how you are doing... will say a prayer too, take care
If the calf is still in the sack, then either she is not ready or something is up...either way good it is still in the sack
I have never been able to run the tip of my finger in the eye socket. Have to ask, how far is your arm in?
Best of luck...it is 230 am here...I should be sleeping, too much pepsi. Pepsi is not something i usually drink alot of, any ways i need to try and get some sleep
I will check back later to see how you are doing... will say a prayer too, take care
hillsdown
Well-known member
Jill, how is it going ? Any progress yet ?
I would give Dex as well if you have it, I hope things are OK .
I would give Dex as well if you have it, I hope things are OK .
Hillsdown and Rockridge, the calf is out (dead) and the heifer is okay. It was a gruelling frustrating job but thanks to my wonderful hubby, its done. We had to go in and break the sack, all we could feel was an upside down head turned back, no feet.
It took an hour and lots of bad words and repeated attempts, but we finally succeeded. It was a large bull calf and very hard to extract, a very hard pull when we did get it sorted. The heifer is able to walk and went straight to the feeder....
Thankyou very much for your help and concern. We calved 70 or 80 heifers a few months ago without one incident. We're making up for it with this lot!
It took an hour and lots of bad words and repeated attempts, but we finally succeeded. It was a large bull calf and very hard to extract, a very hard pull when we did get it sorted. The heifer is able to walk and went straight to the feeder....
Thankyou very much for your help and concern. We calved 70 or 80 heifers a few months ago without one incident. We're making up for it with this lot!
Suzie Q
Well-known member
((((Jilleroo)))))
I am glad the heifer is okay.
I am glad the heifer is okay.
rockridgecattle
Well-known member
Jilleroo,
I posted earlier about our experiences with the head back. After pulling it like you did, our experience is, there will be problems with breed back. The one which had the problem was a second or third time calver. It was an awful pull...with a few bad words.
Be sure to either ship if you do not preg test or get her preg tested so she does not eat enough feed for other breeding animals...and find out she is open in a year from now.
I am sorry for your loss, and those head backs are hard to tell. When you can not see what is actually going on and you have to rely on the sense of touch it is tough. Take care and learn from this. We did.
My guess is the calf was to big for the heifer to turn on her own properly. (Just from what the vet said anyhow)
Take care
RR
I posted earlier about our experiences with the head back. After pulling it like you did, our experience is, there will be problems with breed back. The one which had the problem was a second or third time calver. It was an awful pull...with a few bad words.
Be sure to either ship if you do not preg test or get her preg tested so she does not eat enough feed for other breeding animals...and find out she is open in a year from now.
I am sorry for your loss, and those head backs are hard to tell. When you can not see what is actually going on and you have to rely on the sense of touch it is tough. Take care and learn from this. We did.
My guess is the calf was to big for the heifer to turn on her own properly. (Just from what the vet said anyhow)
Take care
RR
hillsdown
Well-known member
jilleroo":kd0ubpsh said:
Sorry about the calf but that is great news about the heifer getting up and going to eat right away , especially after her long ordeal. I had a heifer down for 5 weeks last winter after a very hard pull ,not fun at all and a heck of a lot of work when you are also in the middle of calving. :???: RR this one did breed back and vet thinks she is due in Feb ,so sometimes you get good news . But I do agree that it can reek havok on their repro system.
Thank you for updating, best up luck with the rest of your season. :tiphat:
Sorry was not more help last night, unlike RR I could barely keep my eyes open at that time ,should have had caffeine .
rockridgecattle
Well-known member
Hard pulls are one thing, but pulling out a calf where you have to get the head twisted around, or jack it out as is, is another. It really damages the uterus
jmo
jmo
Kathie in Thorp
Well-known member
jilleroo":a3q162w2 said:
Horrible presentation!! You did good. Lost the calf, but saved your cow. :tiphat:
