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Texas Ranch Man
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This is really good stuff, keep it comming.
Hay Making Equipment Recommendations
- Thread starter Texas Ranch Man
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dj
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CB and msscamp I gotta disagree.
MF 285(400 hrs on rebuild) with westendorf WL21 loader $8750
5 -bar IH 35 rake $300
new drum mower $3200 (my one exception on buying used/new)
Vermeer 605F $2500 (actually traded two cow/calf pairs).
So I still got $5,250 (from the 20,000) left to go shopping.
I've used this setup for 4 years and there have been misc. repair and maintence costs. not associated with normal wear. But nowhere near $5000 worth even if I charge my time back to it.
So it can be done. But you might not be the envy of the neighborhood. Until you got yours done and the neighbor is still trying to get all kinks out of the new stuff.
If I tried to mow 6 acres an hr my costs would sure go up.
repair would kill me.
5 yrs ago I sold a complete package.
MF 165 with loader
NH 84? rd baler
Ford square baler(with hitch for bale wagon)
4 wheel 3 point rake(you could flip it over and it will tedder)
JD sickle mower on a dolly
bale wagon ( needed new floor)
This equipment was haying about 250 acres a year and working fine. $9200
fair deals are out there if you keep looking.
MF 285(400 hrs on rebuild) with westendorf WL21 loader $8750
5 -bar IH 35 rake $300
new drum mower $3200 (my one exception on buying used/new)
Vermeer 605F $2500 (actually traded two cow/calf pairs).
So I still got $5,250 (from the 20,000) left to go shopping.
I've used this setup for 4 years and there have been misc. repair and maintence costs. not associated with normal wear. But nowhere near $5000 worth even if I charge my time back to it.
So it can be done. But you might not be the envy of the neighborhood. Until you got yours done and the neighbor is still trying to get all kinks out of the new stuff.
If I tried to mow 6 acres an hr my costs would sure go up.
repair would kill me.
5 yrs ago I sold a complete package.
MF 165 with loader
NH 84? rd baler
Ford square baler(with hitch for bale wagon)
4 wheel 3 point rake(you could flip it over and it will tedder)
JD sickle mower on a dolly
bale wagon ( needed new floor)
This equipment was haying about 250 acres a year and working fine. $9200
fair deals are out there if you keep looking.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
dj":2b3l8wwg said:
Your not buying any kind of tractor around here used that can pull a 4x5 round bailer for under 10,000 60 to 70 hp . A p!ss ant can pull a frieght train but it takes a long time. Like I said I have bailed hay with a Massey 135 and lost lots of hay cause it took so long to get it off the ground. My definition of used is also not wore out. There is plenty of wore out stuff you would spend more on fixing than bailing. In a normal year here with our normal rainfall hay equipment has to perform now.
Grippie
Well-known member
I bought all used equipment and went over it all with a fine tooth comb during the winter months. Replace a few bearing here and there, did a little welding, and was ready to go. Havent broken down in the field yet (other than a baler shear pin every once in a while) True, I may not cover ground quite as fast as some guys but, I don't need too cause I only make hobby hay.
cowtrek
Well-known member
Here's what I'd do:
I run Ford/New Holland 5610 tractors. Can't be beat for the price and horsepower. Got both new for $10k cash each, traded in a 30 year old 5200 Ford row crop tractor on one and a 20 year old 6600 Ford all purpose on the other. 95 model is 68 horse, 99 model is 72 horse. I wouldn't want to bale with anything much smaller, but depends on where you are (hills, heavy hay?) and what size baler you want to run. 4020 is a good tractor, but anything in that 50-70 horse range would do, IF IT IS IN GOOD MECHANICAL CONDITION. Check the tractor over with a fine tooth comb-- BIG money to fix and real easy to hide stuff about to go out. Sure wouldn't buy one at auction unless I knew the guy who had it and what shape it was in or got it for an absolute steal, even then be careful because getting it for a steal means you'll probably spend the money on repairs and still have crap. Buy tractor from a good reputable dealer motivated to make a sale rather than BS and jerk you around trying to make a killing off the occassional sales he happens to make. Shop around, look at parts available locally but don't be afraid to buy that brand from a dealer a ways off if he'll make a better deal. I went to a dealer 100 miles away for my tractors because the local NH guy wanted $18k after trade versus $10k up the country.
Mower-- I've got a PZ Zweegers CM212 drum mower-- bought new in 89 and run it every year, cut roadsides and custom, only had to replace U-joint and yoke once. Rebuilt it last year with a new cluster gear $500 and new slides underneath for about $300. Works really good and only 6 gears in the gearcase. 7ft2in cut, wider would be nicer but consistently cut at 6 mph. Keep sharp blades, 8 total reversible so pretty cheap to run. Sure wouldn't want to go narrower than 7 foot though, and 9 would be better. Hard to find drum mowers anymore. I'm looking at upgrading to a Kuhn disc mower when I can afford to, as that's about what 90% of guys run here. Lotsa deals on used disk mowers but BE CAREFUL. Lotsa moving parts in disc mowers and most of em daisychain together. I check out mowers at the auction frequently and some are good some are dogs. Look for smooth turning bar (make several complete revolutions to make sure- no catching or hard spots and check that all disks turn in time, check the amount of backlash from one end of the bar to the other--disc on the far end should start turning within less than 1/4 turn of the other end, more than that pass it by) Grab the individual disks and rock back and forth forward and backward and up and down. Noticeable movement= bearings shot. Inspect the discs for cracks/excess wear- no loose bolts or egged out holes, especially in blade bolt holes. Look at the bar skid plates and noses for excess wear. New disks and skids=$$$. Look between the disks and bar for twine, wire, etc. Dust and dirt in there should tell you what kind of fields it's been run on--sand wears cutters out faster than clay. Check where the bar mounts to the frame. Bolts should be tight, not egged out and on machines with bushings, make sure they're intact and that the bosses aren't worn out or the mounts egged out from the bushing having gone out and run that way awhile. Check frames for welds/cracks/bends/warps. Check the driveline and overrun clutch, belts, pulleys, etc. Check the curtain and frame. Gotta have a curtain and don't want a busted frame letting it wave like a flag while you're cutting. You could go with a sicklebar but for the money you'd probably do better with a disk mower. Haybines are nice if you need the conditioning but check the rollers carefully, and the drives and wobble box, and cutter bar for proper operation and general condition.
Rake- I'd go with a rolabar rake myself because they're more versatile. You can be tempted to get a wheel rake because there are some dirt cheap but I'd think twice. Rolabar rakes can handle short hay, long hay, heavy hay, light hay, wet hay, dry hay, legumes, grasses, and just about anything else in between better than a wheel rake. Wheel rakes are ok on flat ground in medium yield hay with little wind, but I've seen them have all kinds of problems in windy conditions, with long hay and heavy hay like sorghum-sudan and johnsongrass, with any prairie hay with any stray vines in it, on hills, etc. I run a Kuhn cutter for a buddy of mine on occassion and he's constantly folding his wheel rake to dump a ball-up because of tough conditions. I run a NH256 and 258 on a double hookup and miss a lot less hay and do a lot better job with less loss than his wheel rake ever thought about. Irregular shaped meadows and obstacles in the field like trees and stuff to work around will definitely make you glad you have a rolabar rake too. Rolabars have more maintenance but definitely do a better job IMHO. You can find em pretty cheap at auction but watch for the following. Check the bearings on the bar ends first. Rotate the basket and make sure it turns smoothly and doesn't catch or hit any hard spots. Watch each bearing end individually as it turns to make sure it turns true and even with no slop or walking. Grab each bar end and pull back and forth up and down in and out. Shot bearings are readily apparent. Check where the bar bearings bolt to the end spider wheels. Look for egged out holes, broken holes, loose bolts, etc. Grab each bar and twist it to check for looseness. Shift it in gear and turn the basket. Forward it should freewheel, backward it should catch and hold with no 'ratcheting' or jumping (shot gearbox or ground drive dogs) Check the U-joints and ground drive ratchets. They should ratchet when turning forward but should hold when turning the basket backward. If you turn the basket backward more the wheels should try to pull the rake backwards. Listen for both ratchets clicking. Grab the wheels at the top and rock side to side, look for slop in the wheel hub bushings. Look at the basket suspension for broken parts, worn parts (especially the bellcranks which tend to wear sideways) and make sure the cranks turn properly. I bought my 258 with a lot of these problems, but I got it cheap and put all new bearings in bars, a new spider to replace egged out/ broken holes, new wheel hub bushings, new springs and ratchet dogs, and two new bellcranks for about $300. It's like a brand new rake for less than half the price. Rakes are easy to rebuild and the parts are reasonable, so don't be afraid of a 'dog' but make sure you can get parts for it (not a problem with NH but there are lots of others out there) and make sure the rake frame and basket/stripper bars are in good shape. If it looks like a D6 ran over it or it was folded around a tree it'll never run right, but if it's straight and not shot don't be afraid of a few bearings or bushings needing replaced, but price accordingly. Also, check out rakes on the dealer lots just as carefully as auction rakes. Anything you find wrong just drives the price down, unless they want to fix it for you before you buy.
Balers-- I'm looking at replacing my ancient Ford 552 (built by Gehl) one of these days. It's been a good baler but long in the tooth and parts are getting harder to find. It makes decent rolls but not the rock-hard beautiful bales these newer balers make. It's paid for so I'll run it til it dies I guess but I'm keeping my eyes open. I'm leaning toward Vermeer for a replacement simply because out of all the balers I've looked at, I like their design the best. They seem to have the heaviest bearings and shafts and chains. They just look "sturdier" and seem pretty simple compared to a lot of others, and I like simplicity and sturdiness. Don't want to start a paint war here but that's my impression. Course it depends on what kind of deal you can get and what shape it's in. Bout a million things to check on a baler, but generally speaking, check overall condition, focus on the bearings and rollers, condition of the belts, pickup and tines, chains and sprockets, hydraulic/air hoses/valves etc. rust, cracks, breaks, welds, look for burnt or ground out spots where bearings went out and ate up the side sheets, etc. I'd really want to make few rolls with a baler before I bought it. Baler is big $$$ and repairs are too, and if the rollers don't run true or if it's worn out it might not make a proper bale and it's too much $$$ to make a goof on this one. After all, even if you have a great mower, rake, and tractor, if your baler leaves you sitting your hay is going to be crappy if you get it up at all. Don't know if I'd be too quick to buy a baler at auction either, around here they're about as much at auction as you'd pay at a good dealer, and with the dealer you do have SOME recourse, though as the old adage says, you get what you pay for.
Good luck! OL JR
I run Ford/New Holland 5610 tractors. Can't be beat for the price and horsepower. Got both new for $10k cash each, traded in a 30 year old 5200 Ford row crop tractor on one and a 20 year old 6600 Ford all purpose on the other. 95 model is 68 horse, 99 model is 72 horse. I wouldn't want to bale with anything much smaller, but depends on where you are (hills, heavy hay?) and what size baler you want to run. 4020 is a good tractor, but anything in that 50-70 horse range would do, IF IT IS IN GOOD MECHANICAL CONDITION. Check the tractor over with a fine tooth comb-- BIG money to fix and real easy to hide stuff about to go out. Sure wouldn't buy one at auction unless I knew the guy who had it and what shape it was in or got it for an absolute steal, even then be careful because getting it for a steal means you'll probably spend the money on repairs and still have crap. Buy tractor from a good reputable dealer motivated to make a sale rather than BS and jerk you around trying to make a killing off the occassional sales he happens to make. Shop around, look at parts available locally but don't be afraid to buy that brand from a dealer a ways off if he'll make a better deal. I went to a dealer 100 miles away for my tractors because the local NH guy wanted $18k after trade versus $10k up the country.
Mower-- I've got a PZ Zweegers CM212 drum mower-- bought new in 89 and run it every year, cut roadsides and custom, only had to replace U-joint and yoke once. Rebuilt it last year with a new cluster gear $500 and new slides underneath for about $300. Works really good and only 6 gears in the gearcase. 7ft2in cut, wider would be nicer but consistently cut at 6 mph. Keep sharp blades, 8 total reversible so pretty cheap to run. Sure wouldn't want to go narrower than 7 foot though, and 9 would be better. Hard to find drum mowers anymore. I'm looking at upgrading to a Kuhn disc mower when I can afford to, as that's about what 90% of guys run here. Lotsa deals on used disk mowers but BE CAREFUL. Lotsa moving parts in disc mowers and most of em daisychain together. I check out mowers at the auction frequently and some are good some are dogs. Look for smooth turning bar (make several complete revolutions to make sure- no catching or hard spots and check that all disks turn in time, check the amount of backlash from one end of the bar to the other--disc on the far end should start turning within less than 1/4 turn of the other end, more than that pass it by) Grab the individual disks and rock back and forth forward and backward and up and down. Noticeable movement= bearings shot. Inspect the discs for cracks/excess wear- no loose bolts or egged out holes, especially in blade bolt holes. Look at the bar skid plates and noses for excess wear. New disks and skids=$$$. Look between the disks and bar for twine, wire, etc. Dust and dirt in there should tell you what kind of fields it's been run on--sand wears cutters out faster than clay. Check where the bar mounts to the frame. Bolts should be tight, not egged out and on machines with bushings, make sure they're intact and that the bosses aren't worn out or the mounts egged out from the bushing having gone out and run that way awhile. Check frames for welds/cracks/bends/warps. Check the driveline and overrun clutch, belts, pulleys, etc. Check the curtain and frame. Gotta have a curtain and don't want a busted frame letting it wave like a flag while you're cutting. You could go with a sicklebar but for the money you'd probably do better with a disk mower. Haybines are nice if you need the conditioning but check the rollers carefully, and the drives and wobble box, and cutter bar for proper operation and general condition.
Rake- I'd go with a rolabar rake myself because they're more versatile. You can be tempted to get a wheel rake because there are some dirt cheap but I'd think twice. Rolabar rakes can handle short hay, long hay, heavy hay, light hay, wet hay, dry hay, legumes, grasses, and just about anything else in between better than a wheel rake. Wheel rakes are ok on flat ground in medium yield hay with little wind, but I've seen them have all kinds of problems in windy conditions, with long hay and heavy hay like sorghum-sudan and johnsongrass, with any prairie hay with any stray vines in it, on hills, etc. I run a Kuhn cutter for a buddy of mine on occassion and he's constantly folding his wheel rake to dump a ball-up because of tough conditions. I run a NH256 and 258 on a double hookup and miss a lot less hay and do a lot better job with less loss than his wheel rake ever thought about. Irregular shaped meadows and obstacles in the field like trees and stuff to work around will definitely make you glad you have a rolabar rake too. Rolabars have more maintenance but definitely do a better job IMHO. You can find em pretty cheap at auction but watch for the following. Check the bearings on the bar ends first. Rotate the basket and make sure it turns smoothly and doesn't catch or hit any hard spots. Watch each bearing end individually as it turns to make sure it turns true and even with no slop or walking. Grab each bar end and pull back and forth up and down in and out. Shot bearings are readily apparent. Check where the bar bearings bolt to the end spider wheels. Look for egged out holes, broken holes, loose bolts, etc. Grab each bar and twist it to check for looseness. Shift it in gear and turn the basket. Forward it should freewheel, backward it should catch and hold with no 'ratcheting' or jumping (shot gearbox or ground drive dogs) Check the U-joints and ground drive ratchets. They should ratchet when turning forward but should hold when turning the basket backward. If you turn the basket backward more the wheels should try to pull the rake backwards. Listen for both ratchets clicking. Grab the wheels at the top and rock side to side, look for slop in the wheel hub bushings. Look at the basket suspension for broken parts, worn parts (especially the bellcranks which tend to wear sideways) and make sure the cranks turn properly. I bought my 258 with a lot of these problems, but I got it cheap and put all new bearings in bars, a new spider to replace egged out/ broken holes, new wheel hub bushings, new springs and ratchet dogs, and two new bellcranks for about $300. It's like a brand new rake for less than half the price. Rakes are easy to rebuild and the parts are reasonable, so don't be afraid of a 'dog' but make sure you can get parts for it (not a problem with NH but there are lots of others out there) and make sure the rake frame and basket/stripper bars are in good shape. If it looks like a D6 ran over it or it was folded around a tree it'll never run right, but if it's straight and not shot don't be afraid of a few bearings or bushings needing replaced, but price accordingly. Also, check out rakes on the dealer lots just as carefully as auction rakes. Anything you find wrong just drives the price down, unless they want to fix it for you before you buy.
Balers-- I'm looking at replacing my ancient Ford 552 (built by Gehl) one of these days. It's been a good baler but long in the tooth and parts are getting harder to find. It makes decent rolls but not the rock-hard beautiful bales these newer balers make. It's paid for so I'll run it til it dies I guess but I'm keeping my eyes open. I'm leaning toward Vermeer for a replacement simply because out of all the balers I've looked at, I like their design the best. They seem to have the heaviest bearings and shafts and chains. They just look "sturdier" and seem pretty simple compared to a lot of others, and I like simplicity and sturdiness. Don't want to start a paint war here but that's my impression. Course it depends on what kind of deal you can get and what shape it's in. Bout a million things to check on a baler, but generally speaking, check overall condition, focus on the bearings and rollers, condition of the belts, pickup and tines, chains and sprockets, hydraulic/air hoses/valves etc. rust, cracks, breaks, welds, look for burnt or ground out spots where bearings went out and ate up the side sheets, etc. I'd really want to make few rolls with a baler before I bought it. Baler is big $$$ and repairs are too, and if the rollers don't run true or if it's worn out it might not make a proper bale and it's too much $$$ to make a goof on this one. After all, even if you have a great mower, rake, and tractor, if your baler leaves you sitting your hay is going to be crappy if you get it up at all. Don't know if I'd be too quick to buy a baler at auction either, around here they're about as much at auction as you'd pay at a good dealer, and with the dealer you do have SOME recourse, though as the old adage says, you get what you pay for.
Good luck! OL JR
rkm
Well-known member
Just bought a MF 3505 with 3500 hrs. It is about 90 hp, good rubber, no oil or hyd leaks and motor is clean and sounds good. It has original paint, cab with a\c and heat. It is big enough to pull my discbine and other hay equipment over these hills around here. Paid $10,000. New MF probably cost $40,000 plus. I would hate to think what a new Deere or Case IH would cost. I would have to sell a lot of calves to pay for one.
rkm":1a0r39pr said:
Ya gotta be a little careful when going to the bigger tractors. Some of the equipment is made to hook up to cat 0 or 1 or low HP tractors. Putting this smaller equipment behind larger tractors can sometimes cause problems. Not only are the pins different sizes but lift arm length can cause problems also. Not to mention PTO shafts hanging on by a thread. Just be on the look out.
rkm
Well-known member
Actually the 3505 is smaller than the tractors I used last year [a 1066 and JD 4040].
OP
OP
Texas Ranch Man
Well-known member
I am learning a great deal here, I cant thank all of you enough for your very informative posts, special thanks to cowtrek for taking the time to type all of that excellent info. Keep it comming, Thanks TRM
edb130
Well-known member
Texas Ranch Man, I didn't see how many acres you were looking to put up every year but that might make a difference on the equipment you buy as well. I don't do alot but didn't want to be at the mercy of someone else, so here's what I purchased.
International 656 w/loader (gas) $4,000
New Holland 489 Haybine $1,600
Hesston 5540 Round Baler $ 3,500
Massey Rake $450
IHC 37 SqBaler $350
I haven't repaired any of this equipment yet but the tractor will need some rings in a year or two. This isn't the ideal setup but it does the amount I need each year.
International 656 w/loader (gas) $4,000
New Holland 489 Haybine $1,600
Hesston 5540 Round Baler $ 3,500
Massey Rake $450
IHC 37 SqBaler $350
I haven't repaired any of this equipment yet but the tractor will need some rings in a year or two. This isn't the ideal setup but it does the amount I need each year.
OP
OP
Texas Ranch Man
Well-known member
I need to be able to make hay on 40 acres once or twice a year.
Here is a great downloadable program that is from Oklahoma State University, that allows you to input the equipment you want to buy and then tell you how many acres and for how long you have to use this equipment to make it pay for itself. Give it a try.
http://www.dasnr.okstate.edu/agmach/
http://www.dasnr.okstate.edu/agmach/
BoumaticWonders
Active member
we started out real small with a david brown 990 diesel for like 5000$, a 256 rake for 500$ 1217 moco 3000$ a brand new tedder for 3400$ and a round baler for 9,000. This got us a good start but when we were doing too much work for that many round bales and wanted to do baleage we bought a new round baler.
