guns

[Alice]

All of you AK-47's paranoids.........take an AK and shoot a watermelon then take your favorite deer rifle and shoot another watermelon......come back on here and tell me which is more dangerous. You will see that watermelon shot by your deer rifle disentigrate into a pink spray. Shot by the AK it will have a nice hole through it.

I have first hand experienced wounds made by the AK in Iraq. Trust me when I say that your average .243 hunting round does WAY more damage. If the Iraqi army had been using semi-auto .243's with scopes the death rate for us would have been MUCH higher.

Hoss,

With all due respect, if it is ever my intent to shoot someone, God forbid, it is my intent for that someone to be dead with the first shot...not what kind of hole it leaves.

I am just thankful that the kid that brought the AK47 replica into the school in MO shot into the ceiling first and the gun jammed. Had it not, dear lord, what carnage.

Alice

 

[HOSS]

All of you AK-47's paranoids.........take an AK and shoot a watermelon then take your favorite deer rifle and shoot another watermelon......come back on here and tell me which is more dangerous. You will see that watermelon shot by your deer rifle disentigrate into a pink spray. Shot by the AK it will have a nice hole through it.

I have first hand experienced wounds made by the AK in Iraq. Trust me when I say that your average .243 hunting round does WAY more damage. If the Iraqi army had been using semi-auto .243's with scopes the death rate for us would have been MUCH higher.

Hoss,

With all due respect, if it is ever my intent to shoot someone, God forbid, it is my intent for that someone to be dead with the first shot...not what kind of hole it leaves.

I am just thankful that the kid that brought the AK47 replica into the school in MO shot into the ceiling first and the gun jammed. Had it not, dear lord, what carnage.

Alice

The kind of hole it leaves is a big factor in how dead the target becomes. Big holes = massive damage = dead.

 

[kjones]

which is exactly why a 45 is good for self defense.

 

[HOSS]

which is exactly why a 45 is good for self defense.

One reason why my carry gun is a Kimber Pro-Carry in .45 Auto :lol:

 

[kjones]

I hear Kimber makes a very nice piece. I cant afford one myself. I have an Isralie Arms m5000. Its a knock off of the Colt 1911. It does put together a nice tight group though.

 

[Alice]

All of you AK-47's paranoids.........take an AK and shoot a watermelon then take your favorite deer rifle and shoot another watermelon......come back on here and tell me which is more dangerous. You will see that watermelon shot by your deer rifle disentigrate into a pink spray. Shot by the AK it will have a nice hole through it.

I have first hand experienced wounds made by the AK in Iraq. Trust me when I say that your average .243 hunting round does WAY more damage. If the Iraqi army had been using semi-auto .243's with scopes the death rate for us would have been MUCH higher.

Hoss,

With all due respect, if it is ever my intent to shoot someone, God forbid, it is my intent for that someone to be dead with the first shot...not what kind of hole it leaves.

I am just thankful that the kid that brought the AK47 replica into the school in MO shot into the ceiling first and the gun jammed. Had it not, dear lord, what carnage.

Alice

The kind of hole it leaves is a big factor in how dead the target becomes. Big holes = massive damage = dead.

Right...so, I guess I'm not understanding your point when you said something about all of us AK47 paranoids and AK47s doing less damage. Is less damage done to a human's body preferable...ergo, I should not be as concerned about someone being shot with an AK47 as someone shot with a 12 guage shotgun or a deer rifle?

I was taught that guns were designed for killing...not maiming...not wounding...not scaring someone or something off...but stopping someone or something dead in its tracks. And, if it was my intent to use a gun for anything other than stopping something dead in its tracks, I had no business having a gun.

I understand now that the kid in the MO school probably had no intention of shooting anyone...small freakin' comfort had the gun not jammed after the first shot and a stray 10 or 12 bullets killed some students and/or faculty.

I'm not blaming the GUN...I'm not blaming the type of GUN...that would be pointless. But, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm understanding you to say that having and using an AK47 is somehow not as lethal as using a deer rifle...so folks really shouldn't be paranoid about an AK47. I know that can't be what you mean.

Alice

 

[Alice]

which is exactly why a 45 is good for self defense.

I'm obviously way outta my league here. I've shot targets with a 45 and a 357 and a 22 pistol.

However, my first choice for self defense is, and always shall be, a 12 guage shotgun...I can't miss with that.

Alice

 

[kjones]

I think the point Hoss was trying to make is this. Bullets for an AK-47 are fully jacketed, therefore they do not mushroom like a soft point hunting bullet. Mushrooming of the bullet is a source of significant soft tissue dammage. The reason for this mushrooming,and tissue dammage is to ashure a quick kill, so an animal doesn't suffer needlessly. The soft point bullets are not legal for military combat use so they are very hard to come by.

 

[Alice]

I think the point Hoss was trying to make is this. Bullets for an AK-47 are fully jacketed, therefore they do not mushroom like a soft point hunting bullet. Mushrooming of the bullet is a source of significant soft tissue dammage. The reason for this mushrooming,and tissue dammage is to ashure a quick kill, so an animal doesn't suffer needlessly. The soft point bullets are not legal for military combat use so they are very hard to come by.

I appreciate your explanation. Thanks.

Alice

 

[kjones]

Your welcom,and I think your choice of a 12 ga. is a good one also. Just point it in their direction and let it roar. Any intruder in your home is going to vacate real rapid like!

 

[aplusmnt]

I think the point Hoss was trying to make is this. Bullets for an AK-47 are fully jacketed, therefore they do not mushroom like a soft point hunting bullet. Mushrooming of the bullet is a source of significant soft tissue dammage. The reason for this mushrooming,and tissue dammage is to ashure a quick kill, so an animal doesn't suffer needlessly. The soft point bullets are not legal for military combat use so they are very hard to come by.

I also think what he was showing is that if anything the AK47 is less dangerous not more dangerous than your average deer rifle.

People say we should ban them because they are such a dangerous gun, and no good for hunting so for that reason they should ban all assault rifles.

When as Hoss pointed out if you had to pick one way or the other they would be less dangerous (if a gun can be such a thing) not more dangerous.

 

[HOSS]

All of you AK-47's paranoids.........take an AK and shoot a watermelon then take your favorite deer rifle and shoot another watermelon......come back on here and tell me which is more dangerous. You will see that watermelon shot by your deer rifle disentigrate into a pink spray. Shot by the AK it will have a nice hole through it.

I have first hand experienced wounds made by the AK in Iraq. Trust me when I say that your average .243 hunting round does WAY more damage. If the Iraqi army had been using semi-auto .243's with scopes the death rate for us would have been MUCH higher.

Hoss,

With all due respect, if it is ever my intent to shoot someone, God forbid, it is my intent for that someone to be dead with the first shot...not what kind of hole it leaves.

I am just thankful that the kid that brought the AK47 replica into the school in MO shot into the ceiling first and the gun jammed. Had it not, dear lord, what carnage.

Alice

The kind of hole it leaves is a big factor in how dead the target becomes. Big holes = massive damage = dead.

Right...so, I guess I'm not understanding your point when you said something about all of us AK47 paranoids and AK47s doing less damage. Is less damage done to a human's body preferable...ergo, I should not be as concerned about someone being shot with an AK47 as someone shot with a 12 guage shotgun or a deer rifle?

I was taught that guns were designed for killing...not maiming...not wounding...not scaring someone or something off...but stopping someone or something dead in its tracks. And, if it was my intent to use a gun for anything other than stopping something dead in its tracks, I had no business having a gun.

I understand now that the kid in the MO school probably had no intention of shooting anyone...small freakin' comfort had the gun not jammed after the first shot and a stray 10 or 12 bullets killed some students and/or faculty.

I'm not blaming the GUN...I'm not blaming the type of GUN...that would be pointless. But, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm understanding you to say that having and using an AK47 is somehow not as lethal as using a deer rifle...so folks really shouldn't be paranoid about an AK47. I know that can't be what you mean.

Alice

Alice, what I mean is that just because a gun "looks" evil does not make it some super-powerfull weapon. The press has done a great job at villianizing the AK-47 as well as overstating it's power. I made the comparisons to hunting guns to show that "looks" do not increase the effectiveness of the weapon. Some folks think that it is ok to have a deer rifle, shotgun etc.. but think that there is no reason to own an AK-47. I was pointing out the hypocrisy in this. If I can be trusted with the more powerfull 30-06 or 7mm magnum semi-auto deer rifle why shouldn't I be trusted with the less powerfull AK-47? Because it looks different than my trusty semi-auto deer rifle is not a valid reason.

Full metal jacketed bullets used on the battlefield serve multi purposes. Yes they will kill but the are not the most effective killers. They do create havoc however. A soldier gets hit with a FMJ bullet. It punches a neat, clean hole through him. He is alive most likely. Two or more men are needed to carry him off the battlefield or to a more secure area. This equals three men out of action for a period of time. Resources and money are needed to transfer him to the hospital and for his prolonged care. That bullet wound can cost that country hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical expenses and pensions plus tie up men and equipment. Kill this man in battle he lies where he is until recovered. Funeral expense is maybe 10k and only his benefits are left.

The AK-47 is not the most efficient killing weapon out there and should not be feared any more than any hunting rifle.

 

[Alice]

Your welcom,and I think your choice of a 12 ga. is a good one also. Just point it in their direction and let it roar. Any intruder in your home is going to vacate real rapid like!

Yup, that's always been thought, anyway.

Alice

 

[Oldtimer]

Your welcom,and I think your choice of a 12 ga. is a good one also. Just point it in their direction and let it roar. Any intruder in your home is going to vacate real rapid like!

Yup, that's always been thought, anyway.

Alice

Just the sound of jacking in the round have been known to make grown men wet their pants ;-) :lol: No other sound like it .......

 

[chrisy]

aplus this is what I meant by guns not being on the streets, you say our gun crime is up, it may well be but it is still few and far between, and we have not had killings at schools once a week. the other week killings at the Amish school now an attempted killing, a couple of months ago there was a report about a killing at a campus, where a father shot his sons or something like that. it has been 10 years since there was a gun related killing at a school here. and it is quite a rear thing for a knife killing at school to, the last one was in 2004.

 

[kjones]

One thing about the AK 47 is what the movie and television industry has done for its image. It is used in alot of shows as a military weapon,for armys,terrorists,and various rebel type factions. A big part of this is based on truth. At one time the AK47 was the most widely produced weapon on earth. It was made by at least three comunist countries I can think of right now. Those countries weren't very selective about who they sold them too, or the intended purpose. One more thing in some states it is legal for hunting, but with a limit on how many rounds the magazine can hold. However the 7.62x39 round isn't a very popular hunting round.

 

[aplusmnt]

aplus this is what I meant by guns not being on the streets, you say our gun crime is up, it may well be but it is still few and far between, and we have not had killings at schools once a week. the other week killings at the Amish school now an attempted killing, a couple of months ago there was a report about a killing at a campus, where a father shot his sons or something like that. it has been 10 years since there was a gun related killing at a school here. and it is quite a rear thing for a knife killing at school to, the last one was in 2004.

Thing is none of our recent school shootings were from guns on the streets. They were guns brought from home to do harm. The recent shooting in Joplin MO was a youth that brought a rifle from home out of his dads gun safe. I doubt anyone is going around carrying rifles on the streets.

So to me what you are saying is you do not want us to own guns.

Maybe if their was more guns on the Streets the school officials could have accessed one to stop the guys that brought their guns from home before they did harm.

I think you might be confused in your mind what you really believe. Do you believe in people owning guns for protection? Do you believe in a persons right to carry a gun on their body as protection when they are not at home?

You are using criminals as an example that bring legal guns from home to kill people in well thought out and planned crimes.

The issue here is not guns or gun control. England has never had many gun crimes even before their new liberal gun control laws. If you want to use your gun control as a contributing factor then look at how many school shootings you had before the stricter gun control. I think You will find there has not been much difference in the numbers.

Also two of the recent shootings in America have more to do with Sexual deviants, it was more of an issue of Pedophilia than gun control. Just happens the best place to find some innocent children to molest is at school.

Also as much as the media hypes it in reality school crime is down over the past decade not up.

Another point when comparing England to the U.S. I believe we are almost 5 times larger in population. Statistics would have to be given per capita not gross numbers.

 

[Caustic Burno]

aplus this is what I meant by guns not being on the streets, you say our gun crime is up, it may well be but it is still few and far between, and we have not had killings at schools once a week. the other week killings at the Amish school now an attempted killing, a couple of months ago there was a report about a killing at a campus, where a father shot his sons or something like that. it has been 10 years since there was a gun related killing at a school here. and it is quite a rear thing for a knife killing at school to, the last one was in 2004.

Thing is none of our recent school shootings were from guns on the streets. They were guns brought from home to do harm. The recent shooting in Joplin MO was a youth that brought a rifle from home out of his dads gun safe. I doubt anyone is going around carrying rifles on the streets.

So to me what you are saying is you do not want us to own guns.

Maybe if their was more guns on the Streets the school officials could have accessed one to stop the guys that brought their guns from home before they did harm.

I think you might be confused in your mind what you really believe. Do you believe in people owning guns for protection? Do you believe in a persons right to carry a gun on their body as protection when they are not at home?

You are using criminals as an example that bring legal guns from home to kill people in well thought out and planned crimes.

The issue here is not guns or gun control. England has never had many gun crimes even before their new liberal gun control laws. If you want to use your gun control as a contributing factor then look at how many school shootings you had before the stricter gun control. I think You will find there has not been much difference in the numbers.

Also two of the recent shootings in America have more to do with Sexual deviants, it was more of an issue of Pedophilia than gun control. Just happens the best place to find some innocent children to molest is at school.

Also as much as the media hypes it in reality school crime is down over the past decade not up.

Another point when comparing England to the U.S. I believe we are almost 5 times larger in population. Statistics would have to be given per capita not gross numbers.

Aplus all I can say to these liberal socialist that you have been debating with is I am willing to shoot them when they come and try and take my guns. The question is are they willing to get shot?
I was born free and will die free my family has fought and died in every war this country has fought from the revolution to this one to insure these freedoms and rights.

 

[Wewild]

Aplus all I can say to these liberal socialist that you have been debating with is I am willing to shoot them when they come and try and take my guns. The question is are they willing to get shot?
I was born free and will die free my family has fought and died in every war this country has fought from the revolution to this one to insure these freedoms and rights.

Better said than I am able.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Aplus all I can say to these liberal socialist that you have been debating with is I am willing to shoot them when they come and try and take my guns. The question is are they willing to get shot?
I was born free and will die free my family has fought and died in every war this country has fought from the revolution to this one to insure these freedoms and rights.

Count me in on that too caustic. One of those rights you speak of is the right to vote. I exercise it also.