God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

[True Grit Farms]

Charles Herbster

Herbster and SAV are tied together.....imagine that. All you have to do is look at Herbster's 2019 sale catalog and any dummy can figure out what's going on.

 

[dbirdsong]

Everyone knows what's going on but that doesn't mean that America isn't the best young sire prospect in the country. Sure his price is inflated and I won't be using him at $80 a straw but he is an awesome calf.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Hmm..sounds just like someone else on this forum...

One either garners support or creates it.

Another bull of the month is sold, two years tops and he will be buried in dust when the new ones come along. Glad for Schaffs there are Brookhills in the world.

Or.......Glad for Branded that there are Schaffs in the world! Thanks to Kelly and Charles Herbster, I don't have to bale my hay with a 30-year-old baler and a tractor without a cab. I can tell you first hand, it's a nice feeling to run a much smaller herd and make far more money.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Hmm..sounds just like someone else on this forum...

One either garners support or creates it.

Another bull of the month is sold, two years tops and he will be buried in dust when the new ones come along. Glad for Schaffs there are Brookhills in the world.

Ok now I hope that this theory is legit... https://cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=118272
The thought that Branded and Bar23 are the same person.. and he carries on a conversation with himself in the above linked thread is too hilarious for me not to want to believe! :clap:

How about you private message the person who runs this board, and ask if the IP address on Bar and myself are the same? I think if anything, the mods are duplicating accounts.

Just like my cattle, there is only one version of me, I don't need multiple accounts to get my message across.

 

[Bright Raven]

Price fixing is illegal. Exactly how they manage these auctions only your "hairdresser" knows.

Over the last 8 years, I have gone to several high profile sales. Nothing as high profile as the SAV America sale. The best livestock is presented first and quality goes down from there. Generally, I have seen the first bulls, cows or heifers sell for on average $20,000. I know people who have won bids on those first offerings and the cases I know personally, I will state that in my opinion those were legitimate sales and the buyer paid up his hard earned $20,000 dollars and took the animal home to his pasture. Just as an example, I watched a guy I know buy a very hard to find pedigree heifer that was built like the money she sold for. The guy sells some high priced show and seedstock so he made a good purchase.

When it comes to $1.5 million dollars for a bull, there is surely a marketing strategy involved. In fact, it is probably conducted in a legal manner.

No one is going to sell a bull that commands a price of $80 per straw for peanuts. It would be interesting to know what semen companies like Genex and Select Sires pays for the bulls that command $20 to $30 per straw. Those bulls must sell in 6 digits. Some of those stud bulls have a long collection span. For example, Cowboy Cut has sold a lot of semen. Genex has surely done well on him.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Why do you keep going on about price fixing? We all know it's not price fixing, but it is trading cattle with a dollar amount attached.
Happens all the time Inyati, even if you don't want to believe it does.

 

[Bright Raven]

Why do you keep going on about price fixing? We all know it's not price fixing, but it is trading cattle with a dollar amount attached.
Happens all the time Inyati, even if you don't want to believe it does.

That my friend is price fixing.

 

[CattleMan1920]

I just think Branded is smarter than you. Let me know your low birthweights turn into corrinetes.

Smarter than me?!? If that's true then he can take a number and stand in line.. :welcome: It's a long, long line.

I'm not sure who is smarter than whom on here, but with multiple college degrees from University of Kentucky under my belt, I would venture to say I'm not the dullest tool in the shed, but I have had my share of dumb mistakes, I admit.

Where I grew up education was looked down upon, now even more so, our schools are a disgrace in Kentucky. Ignorance is bliss until you end up working 3 minimum wage jobs in order to pay for your 25 year old rusted out Chevy truck and a rent2own living room suite in your parent's basement that you share with Grandma.

I remember many times in high school that there was always a group that would crack jokes, spend time outside smoking instead of time in the library, generally trying to be cool, but always saying things like "books are stupid!" and they were the same people always disrupting class for everyone else.

Well let's fast forward to today, many, not all, but many of those people have fallen on some very hard times in their life, and many that I know would LOVE to see their kid/kids be able to go to college, and they are very hard on their kids telling them not to end up like they did, "go to school, don't screw around, get good grades and become a doctor or a lawyer, but please don't end up back in this small town bare foot pregnant and on welfare"

When I hear all the jokes cracked about improving one's cattle, using AI, looking at a highly successful operation such as Schaff's and wondering that it might not be a bad idea to breed to their best sires, then I see the people that I mentioned above. People that are WAY TOO smart in their own eyes, legends to be exact, determined to take their advice for developing great cattle from buddies at the stockyards, and old local legends, that in reality probably never knew jack sh..t about cattle in the first place.

All I can say is good luck and do what works for you, but remember this, just like the story above about the flunkies, if you are not honest with yourself, it's only you that suffers, nobody else, well maybe your family and those that depend on you of course. If you think ignoring elite genetics that you can have for a nominal price of $80 a straw is a good plan, stick to it! If you think a $1500 bull makes great daughters, then, by all means, go for it, because it won't affect my operation at all because I'm still going to be breeding as aggressively as I can to get as many registered President, Elation, and America daughters as I can, cause at the end of the day they are valuable, which nobody can deny that. It's called "stackin cheddar" and not the kind you eat.

 

[Mod2]

One either garners support or creates it.

Another bull of the month is sold, two years tops and he will be buried in dust when the new ones come along. Glad for Schaffs there are Brookhills in the world.

Ok now I hope that this theory is legit... https://cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=118272
The thought that Branded and Bar23 are the same person.. and he carries on a conversation with himself in the above linked thread is too hilarious for me not to want to believe! :clap:

How about you private message the person who runs this board, and ask if the IP address on Bar and myself are the same? I think if anything, the mods are duplicating accounts.

Just like my cattle, there is only one version of me, I don't need multiple accounts to get my message across.

The Mod or Administrator is not duplicating your account.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Why do you keep going on about price fixing? We all know it's not price fixing, but it is trading cattle with a dollar amount attached.
Happens all the time Inyati, even if you don't want to believe it does.

That my friend is price fixing.

Realtors can go to jail for price fixing a development or housing, why wouldn't cattle be the same scenario?

 

[CattleMan1920]

Ok now I hope that this theory is legit... https://cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=118272
The thought that Branded and Bar23 are the same person.. and he carries on a conversation with himself in the above linked thread is too hilarious for me not to want to believe! :clap:

How about you private message the person who runs this board, and ask if the IP address on Bar and myself are the same? I think if anything, the mods are duplicating accounts.

Just like my cattle, there is only one version of me, I don't need multiple accounts to get my message across.

The Mod or Administrator is not duplicating your account.

I know that, what I was trying to convey was that a mod might have multiple accounts themselves. I only have one account, I assure everyone on here.

Also when I back up my online presence with our OPERATION NAME and AAA Reg numbers, I don't think I'm exactly trying to be stealth.

 

[Bright Raven]

Why do you keep going on about price fixing? We all know it's not price fixing, but it is trading cattle with a dollar amount attached.
Happens all the time Inyati, even if you don't want to believe it does.

That my friend is price fixing.

Realtors can go to jail for price fixing a development or housing, why wouldn't cattle be the same scenario?

It is difficult to prove.

Enacted in 1890, the Sherman Act is among our country's most important and enduring pieces of economic legislation. The Sherman Act prohibits any agreement among competitors to fix prices, rig bids, or engage in other anticompetitive activity.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Raven I like the looks of Obama better I will take 1.6 million for him.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Why do you keep going on about price fixing? We all know it's not price fixing, but it is trading cattle with a dollar amount attached.
Happens all the time Inyati, even if you don't want to believe it does.

That my friend is price fixing.

No agreement before hand on amount paid, no intention of being fully reimbursed, and any sucker can bid.
Have been to pig sales were two bid up a boar, and some Chinese buyer gets suckered into buying, or he buys the next pig thinking he got a good deal.
Also went to a sale were the price went up and no one was bidding. Very interesting that one was.
You may have worked on the sale side, but I have been the one sitting on the other side of the rail.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Price fixing is illegal. Exactly how they manage these auctions only your "hairdresser" knows.

Over the last 8 years, I have gone to several high profile sales. Nothing as high profile as the SAV America sale. The best livestock is presented first and quality goes down from there. Generally, I have seen the first bulls, cows or heifers sell for on average $20,000. I know people who have won bids on those first offerings and the cases I know personally, I will state that in my opinion those were legitimate sales and the buyer paid up his hard earned $20,000 dollars and took the animal home to his pasture. Just as an example, I watched a guy I know buy a very hard to find pedigree heifer that was built like the money she sold for. The guy sells some high priced show and seedstock so he made a good purchase.

When it comes to $1.5 million dollars for a bull, there is surely a marketing strategy involved. In fact, it is probably conducted in a legal manner.

No one is going to sell a bull that commands a price of $80 per straw for peanuts. It would be interesting to know what semen companies like Genex and Select Sires pays for the bulls that command $20 to $30 per straw. Those bulls must sell in 6 digits. Some of those stud bulls have a long collection span. For example, Cowboy Cut has sold a lot of semen. Genex has surely done well on him.

Herbster should be applauded for what he did. You guys don't have a clue what this does for the U.S. cattle market in general. It makes sure that we are still the top dog in genetics worldwide. The news of this sale will spread worldwide on Monday, and orders from other countries will be rolling in for U.S. based genetics.

Woe is the day when we have to go to Russia for our straws of semen. We have the best beef technology, genetics, and herd in the world, and you guys want it to go in reverse! Get over yourselves, NOBODY is clamoring for your homegrown bulls of unknown origin. Do you really think a big beef producer in Argentina wants your 5 year old bull that Grandpappy said was a cracker jack when he was born? No, they don't, they want SAV America 8018!

I don't know about you guys but I would pay Herbster $80 a straw any day versus sending my money to Brazil, Russia, or China for a semen order. Be HAPPY that a TRUE AMERICAN like Herbster bought that bull and Schaff will keep it here! Nearly everything this country has of value has been under attack by foreign buyers with unbelievable amounts of cash, and our gov is only too happy to sell it all to the highest bidder. This is one of the last great things that is still developed and owned in this country.

Saturday proved without a shadow of a doubt who owns the Angus business worldwide, stop hating on these folks, and clap your darn hands! Then go buy some semen and be a true AMERICAN!

 

[Bright Raven]

Raven I like the looks of Obama better I will take 1.6 million for him.

I hope you get it CB. But he better have the pedigree and prefix to cause all these guys like Branded to beat the doors down to pay $80 a straw.

 

[Silver]

I'm still going to be breeding as aggressively as I can to get as many registered President, Elation, and America daughters as I can, cause at the end of the day they are valuable, which nobody can deny that. It's called "stackin cheddar" and not the kind you eat.

Well, they may be valuable to some people for a time. There is no denying that.
I'm not a purebred breeder, I'm glad there are purebred breeders out there hopefully improving cattle. I will not be buying $80 semen, or any semen for that matter. I will continue bumble along in my own fashion, doing everything wrong according to you. Will I be falling behind? Will your cattle be that much better than mine or other commercial folks who continue to strive in their own way? Let's see....

 

[Caustic Burno]

Raven I like the looks of Obama better I will take 1.6 million for him.

I hope you get it CB. But he better have the pedigree and prefix to cause all these guys like Branded to beat the doors down to pay $80 a straw.

There apparently easy to fool.
A catalog cover and we are good to go.
Angus are good cattle not the only cattle. The problem I have found with them is most of the breeders. You must have to pass an obnoxious regurgitation test to join the AAA.

 

[CattleMan1920]

I'm still going to be breeding as aggressively as I can to get as many registered President, Elation, and America daughters as I can, cause at the end of the day they are valuable, which nobody can deny that. It's called "stackin cheddar" and not the kind you eat.

Well, they may be valuable to some people for a time. There is no denying that.
I'm not a purebred breeder, I'm glad there are purebred breeders out there hopefully improving cattle. I will not be buying $80 semen, or any semen for that matter. I will continue bumble along in my own fashion, doing everything wrong according to you. Will I be falling behind? Will your cattle be that much better than mine or other commercial folks who continue to strive in their own way? Let's see....

You aren't doing anything wrong per se, I'm just trying to say that when people ignore progress in the breed and see it as a sham they are shooting themselves in the foot. I don't think you are doing that by the way.

My herd is a long ways from where I want it to be. I don't think that in even 15 years of extremely aggressive AI and ET breeding I will fully be where I can sit back and say, "this is it, I've got a great herd"

Trust me, not a day goes by that I don't look at some of my old gals and think that they are the Bad News Bears of Angus, some don't have perfect tails, some walk slower because of age, some might have a bad eye, but they are a work in progress, and they never stop helping me get a new calf. My job is to make sure that calf is of improved genetics. I want to go forward, not backwards.

It always amazes me, and you did not imply this, but it amazes me that some commercial folks see the efforts of seedstock or heifer producers as meaningless. They take great bulls for granted, they see them as something that is just a given, like electric or water. Well my friends when you are working on something for multiple years to bring to market, and people don't want to pay up for your time and effort, you do tend to form opinions of some people that aren't too nice.

 

[Bright Raven]

Note: Not all these stud bulls are "overnight wonders". In the Simmental Breed, The bulls like Upgrade, Steel Force, Dream On, Cowboy Cut, etc. Have had respectable longevity. These "flavors" of the month certainly exist. It takes some effort to not get swept away chasing the "fly by night" bulls.