New ( to me) use for Corriente Cattle

[Warren Allison]

Had a dude call yesterday, wanting to buy some Corr cows. Solids only...black, red and tan. I told him what I had, had calves on them and were bred back....and asked him what he was wanting these for. He said he bred them to Askaushi (sp) and Waygu bulls. He said he was selling the calves as part -Wyagu, or f1 Wyagu. Said the didn't bring what a FB Wygu or Akaushi did, but brought the same as any other f1 Wygua cross. That explains why those Corr cows sold so high at Paris, Tx last week. They were all bred to Akaushi or Wygu bulls. I told him it would be July before I started weaning any of mine, and those would be 4-5 months bred to either black Simm, Brangus, or a Chi-Ang/Brangus composite. I told him I would be weaning every month, July-Nov, and would sell those bred cows then. Told him it would be $1500 each for solid colored one. He asked how much would I take for them now with their calves as well. I said ," Well, I wean at 6 mos, and they will weigh 500-550. Told him I had a contract for them, and the steer calves would end up bringing about $1250 or more, and the heifers $1000 or more, and the buyer will take them all. The man told me he would give me $3k per pair, if he could go ahead and start getting them!!!!! Don't make sense to me....he is gonna have to wait until they calve in 4-5 mos, then another month or 2 to breed them. Might as well wait til I wean them and buy just the cows for $1500. But, he said he knew how to ride, so I am meeting him down there Thursday, and we gonna ride the herd and see how many solids I have. I think out of the 122 that are mine, 75 or more are solid. When I asked him how many he was wanting, he said: " All I can get!" We will see. If he is legit...and has the cash or a certified check, I will let him have them! Everyone I sell I will just go ahead and get another one of Clay's boss's at $300 each.

I haven't seen this cross, but I can imagine a half-Corr calf would look a lot like a Waygu or Akaushi calf. Maybe if they wean them and put them up in a confined area and feed the heck out of them like they do in Japan, they will marble well enough. If this catches on, Corriente cows will not be cheap anymore. At least the solid color ones won't be.

 

[MurraysMutts]

They ain't cheap now!

 

[wobbie1775]

@Warren Allison I think some of those wagyu bull programs pre-contract at a premium for calves no matter what cows they come out of to fill thier nation-wide demand for marketing-program-beef. Surprising he is willing to pay "fancy beef" prices for corriente cows. Maybe he knows/thinks the corriente cows will last a long time (relative to other commercial cows) in his operation? Or maybe the marketing nerds have convinced some group of buyers that beef from cows with horns is worth more money!?

 

[Warren Allison]

@Warren Allison I think some of those wagyu bull programs pre-contract at a premium for calves no matter what cows they come out of to fill thier nation-wide demand for marketing-program-beef. Surprising he is willing to pay "fancy beef" prices for corriente cows. Maybe he knows/thinks the corriente cows will last a long time (relative to other commercial cows) in his operation? Or maybe the marketing nerds have convinced some group of buyers that beef from cows with horns is worth more money!?

I kinda figured there was one of the Wagyu programs at play. He has probably fooled with Corrs before, and knows he can do better with them than with the kind of beef cow he'd get for $1500. He knows with the Corrs there will be no calving problems, no trouble getting bred back, no calves rejected, no cows with not enough milk, and no vaccinating worming, or feed costs. I will know more about it all, and him, after Thursday. I can tell you everything there is to know about a man....his character, his honesty....watching how he handles himself and his horse. We will spend a couple hours in the saddle, gathering them up, getting them in the arena so he can see them. I will find out all about this Wagyu X Corr thing Thursday. If it pans out, we might look into it as well.

 

[crossbreed]

Had a dude call yesterday, wanting to buy some Corr cows. Solids only...black, red and tan. I told him what I had, had calves on them and were bred back....and asked him what he was wanting these for. He said he bred them to Askaushi (sp) and Waygu bulls. He said he was selling the calves as part -Wyagu, or f1 Wyagu. Said the didn't bring what a FB Wygu or Akaushi did, but brought the same as any other f1 Wygua cross. That explains why those Corr cows sold so high at Paris, Tx last week. They were all bred to Akaushi or Wygu bulls. I told him it would be July before I started weaning any of mine, and those would be 4-5 months bred to either black Simm, Brangus, or a Chi-Ang/Brangus composite. I told him I would be weaning every month, July-Nov, and would sell those bred cows then. Told him it would be $1500 each for solid colored one. He asked how much would I take for them now with their calves as well. I said ," Well, I wean at 6 mos, and they will weigh 500-550. Told him I had a contract for them, and the steer calves would end up bringing about $1250 or more, and the heifers $1000 or more, and the buyer will take them all. The man told me he would give me $3k per pair, if he could go ahead and start getting them!!!!! Don't make sense to me....he is gonna have to wait until they calve in 4-5 mos, then another month or 2 to breed them. Might as well wait til I wean them and buy just the cows for $1500. But, he said he knew how to ride, so I am meeting him down there Thursday, and we gonna ride the herd and see how many solids I have. I think out of the 122 that are mine, 75 or more are solid. When I asked him how many he was wanting, he said: " All I can get!" We will see. If he is legit...and has the cash or a certified check, I will let him have them! Everyone I sell I will just go ahead and get another one of Clay's boss's at $300 each.

I haven't seen this cross, but I can imagine a half-Corr calf would look a lot like a Waygu or Akaushi calf. Maybe if they wean them and put them up in a confined area and feed the heck out of them like they do in Japan, they will marble well enough. If this catches on, Corriente cows will not be cheap anymore. At least the solid color ones won't be.

How do you handle the buyer you already have a contract on the calves?

 

[Travlr]

I kinda figured there was one of the Wagyu programs at play. He has probably fooled with Corrs before, and knows he can do better with them than with the kind of beef cow he'd get for $1500. He knows with the Corrs there will be no calving problems, no trouble getting bred back, no calves rejected, no cows with not enough milk, and no vaccinating worming, or feed costs. I will know more about it all, and him, after Thursday. I can tell you everything there is to know about a man....his character, his honesty....watching how he handles himself and his horse. We will spend a couple hours in the saddle, gathering them up, getting them in the arena so he can see them. I will find out all about this Wagyu X Corr thing Thursday. If it pans out, we might look into it as well.

If he's smart he will be keeping his cards close to his vest...

But from what you've said already it sounds like he will be selling his ideas, cultivating a following, and working the room to impress.

 

[Warren Allison]

How do you handle the buyer you already have a contract on the calves?

I will just tell him. He will be tickled to death if I sold them all and got 75 more of his cows. There are only 3 January calves and 9 Feb calves, and out of them, one is red & wh and another is black & white, so he wouldn't want them anyway. The man I got them from had used a sale-barn "Angus" bull, that was NOT homo polled or homo black. I am guessing that feller Thursday is gonna decide to wait and just buy the cows after weaning. But if he is dead-set on buying the pairs for $3k each, then I will sell them. But, I won't take $2900 for them!

 

[Warren Allison]

If he's smart he will be keeping his cards close to his vest...

But from what you've said already it sounds like he will be selling his ideas, cultivating a following, and working the room to impress.

Yeah, I gotta feeling I will hear a sales pitch or two. This whole Wygua thing that is so popular, includes a lot of multi-level marketing type elements, and a lot of breeders seem to engage in a lot of recruitment, I think.

 

[Travlr]

Yeah, I gotta feeling I will hear a sales pitch or two. This whole Wygua thing that is so popular, includes a lot of multi-level marketing type elements, and a lot of breeders seem to engage in a lot of recruitment, I think.

Yeah... and those shills have no concern about the damage they do... eh?

 

[Warren Allison]

Well, he was a nice enough feller, Showed up on time, had a real nice horse. He is a horseman.... shod properly, saddle fit..no white spots on the withers. Rode him in a plain, short shanked curb, with no tie downs. I watched him tack up and all...the man knows horses, alright. I try not to be this way but I just don't have as much respect for a man that isn't a horseman. He had 2 heelers with him on back of his truck, that jumped down when het got out of his truck. I told him he better put them in the cab or in the trailer, because there are two things I won't tolerate.... "cattle dogs" and Democrats...both screw up more than they help. It was already hot by 9:30, so I told him he could put them in one of the kennels in the pole barn, and that is what he did. We found the herd in the woods that the creek runs through, and we eased them out into a clearing. I showed him the ones that would be weaning in July. and told him what months the others would wean. He said he wanted up to 50. I showed him the ones with big spots...Herford, Holstein, etc patterns, and they all had black calves. I told him it was the one with little spots, or roans, that will sometimes have calves to not come out solid black. I guessed right...I have 78 solid colored ones..40 black and the others either red or tan.

I told him if he got 50 cows after they wean, he was looking at $75K. If he wanted to buy the pairs at $3k, he was looking at $150k. I told him I could get him a load of solid colored cows and heifers out of Chihuahua...already crossed into El Paso...healthier than any cattle purchased in the US, for $1k per head. I said it would probably cost $5 mile to transport, and its about 1500 miles. So $50k for the herd and $7500 getting them here. The only thing is we cannot guarantee all to be open, but my guy would try best he could to only get up opens. I told him most all of the 120 I have out there now, I bought out of Mexico a couple years ago, sold them, then bought them back this January. I told him I had been dealing with this man for 30 years, til he was murdered in 2022, and now I deal with his son. I explained to him how it would work...how he would pay me and when. I had called my contact on the way down this morning. He has gone up on me...these will cost me $650/head! I will only make $17.5k on them, but not bad for making some phone calls, and the little bit of aggravation in transferring the money to my Mexican partner.

This man raises Wagyu or Akaushi or whatever they are...breeding stock. He said if we wanted to get in on it, he would sell us the bulls. The program is lucrative for now. You have to join the association and their dues are a little steep, and pay to enroll in the program. If you do, and use their registered bulls, this program insures your calves top the market at any sale. What they do, is they will pay you the difference in what your calves sold for and 20 cents per pound more than the top selling in that weight class that day. Say your 500 lb steer brought $2.58 a pound. Say the top selling 500 lb steer brough $2.80. They will pay you 42 cents per pound to get it to the $3/lb deal. You have to cut a notch out of each calf's ear before the sale, and send it in for a DNA analysis. I think he said that cost $25 or $30. It doesn't matter what the other half is, as long as it is by a registered and enrolled Wagyu bull. He is going to send me a link about it all.

I don't think I want to fool with this. A bull might can breed 50 cows in a season, but it wont be a 45 day calving window, In the case above , you would have gotten a check for about $200. Buying a $10k bull, you would just break even on 50 calves, and that is not counting the dues, the DNA testing and other costs with this program,. Of course the next few years, you would make money until you had to get another bull.

 

[Warren Allison]

Well, I saw and add yesterday for some 2 yr old, registered, Akaushi heifers. In the description they told how many were 3/4 blood, 1/2 blood, and 1/4 blood. So apparently you can registered these and Wagyu cattle if only one parent is purebred registered. Makes even more sense now....those people using Corriente cows. I guess you actually register those calves that you want to be in that program where the association "antes up" the amount needed per pound to make your calf sell for .20 more than the top selling that day.

So, my contact in Chihuahua called yesterday, and said it would take a long time to try to fins 50 cows open. Most anything he could find for the dude would most likely be bred. He told me he could, however, get up 50-60 open heifers, 15-18 months old, all solid colored. He said if the guy wanted them to let him know by tomorrow and he could have them crossed over, vetted, cleared for transport in the US, with documentation, by next Friday. If he didn't get them next Friday, the man will have to pay a daily fee for feed til he gets them. So, I told the dude I would give Jose the go-ahead as soon as the money was in my account. Well this morning, my account showed a $60k deposit pending, so I told Jose the deal was on. As soon as the are cleared to pass over to the US side, I will transfer the money to Jose's bank in El Paso. This dude buying them says he has a lot of transportation resources, so he is gonna handle lining it up.

I see how this program could be a gold mine for someone already into Wagyu seed stock production, because they'd have the bulls. But, I don't see how it could work for me, with 170 Corrs, to spend $60-$90k on 8-9 bulls to breed them.

I don't know if Wagyu and Akuashi are used interchangably to describe the same cattle, or if there are 2 different associations. And if so, if their programs for people using their breed(s) are the same. Wish @Mountaintown Creek Ranch was still on here.

 

[wobbie1775]

I don't know if Wagyu and Akuashi are used interchangably to describe the same cattle, or if there are 2 different associations. And if so, if their programs for people using their breed(s) are the same. Wish @Mountaintown Creek Ranch was still on here.

We (in the states) bastardize these terms pretty good. If I recall correctly, there are 2 or 3 breeds of cows that make "japanese beef" or wagyu. So wagyu is the meat. The breeds are Japanese Black, Akuashi, and maybe 1 more. Most "wagyu" critters i have seen are japanese blacks.

 

[Travlr]

We (in the states) bastardize these terms pretty good. If I recall correctly, there are 2 or 3 breeds of cows that make "japanese beef" or wagyu. So wagyu is the meat. The breeds are Japanese Black, Akuashi, and maybe 1 more. Most "wagyu" critters i have seen are japanese blacks.

From what I understand... and I'm no expert by any means, the ones that marble extremely are the reds.

 

[wobbie1775]

From what I understand... and I'm no expert by any means, the ones that marble extremely are the reds.

Could be. No expert here either!

 

[Warren Allison]

We (in the states) bastardize these terms pretty good. If I recall correctly, there are 2 or 3 breeds of cows that make "japanese beef" or wagyu. So wagyu is the meat. The breeds are Japanese Black, Akuashi, and maybe 1 more. Most "wagyu" critters i have seen are japanese blacks.

That makes sense to me. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Warren Allison]

Well, this Akaushi x Corr thing has worked out very well for me! I told the dude that wanted to buy some of mine for $1500, that I could get him some young, healthy, possibly open solid colored cows out of Mexico for $1000 per head. Transportation would be about $4 per mile, for 1500 miles, so about $6k. On 60 head that would put him at $1100 per head , delivered. So that's what he decided to do...buy 60 head. He sent me the $60k last week, and I sent my contact the $39k...$650 per head!!!

 

[10-e-c-dirtfarmer]

We (in the states) bastardize these terms pretty good. If I recall correctly, there are 2 or 3 breeds of cows that make "japanese beef" or wagyu. So wagyu is the meat. The breeds are Japanese Black, Akuashi, and maybe 1 more. Most "wagyu" critters i have seen are japanese blacks.

I found all this PR/bs info at a Wagyu beef importer site, they spend a lot of $ on paper work

 

[SoilBuilder]

I bought a few straws of a smaller than normal frame purebred Akaushi bull last year. I'm going to try them out on some of my Mashona-cross cows next AI season to see how their future offspring turn out for personal consumption.

 

[Mountaintown Creek Ranch]

Well, I saw and add yesterday for some 2 yr old, registered, Akaushi heifers. In the description they told how many were 3/4 blood, 1/2 blood, and 1/4 blood. So apparently you can registered these and Wagyu cattle if only one parent is purebred registered. Makes even more sense now....those people using Corriente cows. I guess you actually register those calves that you want to be in that program where the association "antes up" the amount needed per pound to make your calf sell for .20 more than the top selling that day.

So, my contact in Chihuahua called yesterday, and said it would take a long time to try to fins 50 cows open. Most anything he could find for the dude would most likely be bred. He told me he could, however, get up 50-60 open heifers, 15-18 months old, all solid colored. He said if the guy wanted them to let him know by tomorrow and he could have them crossed over, vetted, cleared for transport in the US, with documentation, by next Friday. If he didn't get them next Friday, the man will have to pay a daily fee for feed til he gets them. So, I told the dude I would give Jose the go-ahead as soon as the money was in my account. Well this morning, my account showed a $60k deposit pending, so I told Jose the deal was on. As soon as the are cleared to pass over to the US side, I will transfer the money to Jose's bank in El Paso. This dude buying them says he has a lot of transportation resources, so he is gonna handle lining it up.

I see how this program could be a gold mine for someone already into Wagyu seed stock production, because they'd have the bulls. But, I don't see how it could work for me, with 170 Corrs, to spend $60-$90k on 8-9 bulls to breed them.

I don't know if Wagyu and Akuashi are used interchangably to describe the same cattle, or if there are 2 different associations. And if so, if their programs for people using their breed(s) are the same. Wish @Mountaintown Creek Ranch was still on here.

Hello Warren,
Been a few days.
Wagyu is not a breed.
Wa=Japanese
Gyu = cow

The Akaushi is known for size, maternal and milk. Although over the years marbling is on the rise in the reds.

The Japanese Black is the only other Wagyu breed imported. It is known for extreme marbling but usually very poor milkers / mother's. Depending on what region it came from also usually smaller. Although I have a blk that is over 1500 and throws a beautiful calf so there are some large frame genetics.
Not sure I answered your question.

Here is our 14 month old Akaushi bull.

 

[Warren Allison]

Hello Warren,
Been a few days.
Wagyu is not a breed.
Wa=Japanese
Gyu = cow

The Akaushi is known for size, maternal and milk. Although over the years marbling is on the rise in the reds.

The Japanese Black is the only other Wagyu breed imported. It is known for extreme marbling but usually very poor milkers / mother's. Depending on what region it came from also usually smaller. Although I have a blk that is over 1500 and throws a beautiful calf so there are some large frame genetics.
Not sure I answered your question.

Here is our 14 month old Akaushi bull.

Welcome back, @Mountaintown Creek Ranch !! I was beginning to wonder if y'all had been swept away during a storm this spring! Seem like the thing to do would be use Japanese Black bulls on Akaushi cows, don't it? What do you think about this dude buying all of these Corr cows to breed with his Akaushi bulls? Hat do you know about this program where by the association (dunno what association) pays to get the price of your calves 20 cents higher than the top selling calf on a given day?