Getting Started

[Anonymous]

O.K. Guys (and gals), I am 38, happily married, and going through a midlife crises. But instead of getting a Harley or having an affair, I want to get into the cattle business on a small basis. My wife and I just purchased 80 acres just out of town on which we plan to build in a year. The front 40 acres are mostly 15-year old pines, the back 40 acres was pasture 5 years ago but is now grown up to where bush-hogging is not an option. I want to run cattle on this back 40. It is low...in the 100-year flood plain. I want Longhorns to be part or all of my cattle operation for the horns...I LOVE the old west. The Lord has been so gracious with my family business that maximizing the $$ is not as big a deal as the enjoyment of this as a hobby. Right now the 80 acres is fenced pretty well around the perimeter, but other than that there are NO improvements.

How many longhorns, or longhorn crosses, can I eventually run on 40 acres?
Should I buy a bull or borrow (don't know if many longhorn bulls are hanging out in my area) or AI?
Should I buy a young bull and heifers or invest in mature cows and a mature bull?
Do longhorns cross well with any other breed that will also produce horns?
Do I have to have a barn or "corral" to get going?
I would rather not invest over 10-20K in the actual cattle the first year.
Any sincere input will be appreciated. I am an outdoorsman, but other than hanging out with my grandparents who ran 200+- cattle when I was growingup, I don't know much about cattle, but love a hard-working hobby and do know how to run a business.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I would PM Bama sharp cattleman over in your neck of the woods.

But Longhorns.

 

[Bama]

I'm from North West Alabama. Around here we run a pair per acre. Don't take this to heart. I'm not sure what the conditions are like in your area. It take good grass to run that many per acre. Up here longhorns are only used by people in the rodeo business. I see a few of them come through the salebarn from time to time. They go a lot lower than most of the other breeds. There are some Longhorn folks on this board that can help you with a lot better advice than I can give you on them. Other area of the country longhorns bring a better price.
If you have not been around cattle I would recommend that you start out slowly. Once you learn the ins and outs they aren't much trouble. For someone starting out there are a lot of things that you have to learn the hard way. Trial and error play a big part in someones operation. It better to make a few small mistakes on a few cattle than large mistakes on a lot of cattle. Keeping a few to start with gives you a better chance to learn about them. You will get to reconize when something is wrong with one of them if you are observing a limited amount. Trying to watch several, things can slip by the untrained eye. I use that term untrained eye loosely, as we were all untrained at one time. Expect to make a few mistakes ( I have made my share ), but learn from them. The best advice I could give you is to talk to your neighbors. They will know more about the cattle trade in your area. As far as the lowland. I have some that I don't drain well. It gets a little wet during the winter months but it sure helps out during the summer months. You can put a dozer on the part that is overgrown fairly cheaply now. If you wait a few years those saplings will be a lot harder for a dozer to take out and will cost you a lot more in the longrun. Good luck and be forewarned the cattle industry is an addicting business.

 

[Alan]

I have to ask.. why is bush hogging not an option? We have about 50 of a 70 acre parcel recaptured to pasture. I have bush hogged it all... 10 ft tall black berries, 2 to 3 inch scrub trees, tire ruts, basic hillbilly trash... bush hogged without too much trouble. But we are in the Pacific Northwest.

Alan

 

[Bama]

Actually we are in the same climate zone (7) as the PNW. Around here the brush after five years can be bush hogged, but its getting close to the limit. Depending on the rainfall for the last few years. I bushhogged some new ground that was grown up for 1 year. I hit it again the next year and punchured two tires on the stubs. Another option to him may be spraying from the air. and then cutting it. This reminds me of something I think I will post over in the coffee shop.

 

[Beefy]

if you can get a wide enough fire break dug or harrowed you might be able to burn it when (if) it dries out. fire kills a lot of saplings. then i'd go in and harrow it up really good, if there was any bermuda grass there it will jump back up. this is what we did with the last 100 acres we acquired. it was mostly 6 foot high broomgrass and wax myrtle, oaks, maples, pines, etc. oh yeah YUCCAS AND SAWPALMETTO. how could i forget those two. and rattlesnakes bigger than me. anyway, the previous owners were letting it grow up for a hunting plantation type of deal but forgot that they couldnt access it b/c we own all the land around it except for the other side of the creek and the creek kept blowing their road out. anyway, for some reason they had planted a strip of coastal bermuda grass back there and after we harrowed it up a few times the coastal took over the whole place.

 

[dun]

I bushhogged some new ground that was grown up for 1 year. I hit it again the next year and punchured two tires on the stubs.

Clearing sizeable brush is the one place that I found dull blades on a brushhog to be an advantage. If it's set to cut 8-9 inches high it more flays the inds rather then cuts them. I've cleared a good deal of overgrown oak and hickory that way and once I went to a dull blade I din;t staub anymore tires. It's still bad for low pressure tires like 4 whelers or mules, but that more a property of the thin tirre.

dun

 

[Bama]

This was kinda one of those things where you know better but do it anyway. I should have sprayed it first to kill it before I cut it. I was trying to cut corners, wound up costing me more in the longrun due to one of those punctures being a dreaded back tire.

Back to the origional post. I just realized i may have not explained myself well enough. When I mentioned using a dozer I was refering to a dozer pulling a bush & bog. It's kinda like a harrrow. Its a really heavy built disc. Its made out of cast iron and is very heavy. It has to be pulled with a really big tractor or dozer. The dozer is the best method I have saw. There are several pastures around here that was put in a program that you have to let the land lay by for 3 years. You can bushhog one ever three years. The only problem is some folks let their go a little longer. Then a bushhog wont get it without destroying something. The dozer can push over anything that gets up to the 4 or 5 inch range. Most stuff will be at or below 2". The bush and bog will get it out of the ground and does a pretty good job of tearing it up. Thats where it helps to kill it before running this over it. If the brush is still green, even in wintertime, it is not brittle enough to be broken up. Think of it as a really heavy duty disc. If it goes much over 6 to 8 years the dozer will have to push off a lot of ground to get rid of the stumps. The burning idea would work to kill most of the top growth as well but we are in a no burn area until at least October. We generally get placed in a no burn condition during the summer months. Not due to fire hazard but to the clean air act. Some heavy duty fines are imposed if you get caught burning.

 

[brokenmouth]

a dozer pulling a bush & bog. It's kinda like a harrrow. Its a really heavy built disc. Its made out of cast iron and is very heavy. It has to be pulled with a really big tractor or dozer. The dozer is the best method I have saw.

almost sound like what we always called a root plow

 

[Campground Cattle]

a dozer pulling a bush & bog. It's kinda like a harrrow. Its a really heavy built disc. Its made out of cast iron and is very heavy. It has to be pulled with a really big tractor or dozer. The dozer is the best method I have saw.

almost sound like what we always called a root plow

We use a shear blades in East Texas takes a D-8 or better clear 10-15 acres a day and ready for planting when it leaves.

http://www.rocklandmfg.com/Dozers/clearing_blade.html

 

[k alton]

Thanks for all responses. I have changed my username from bama4HIM to k alton so that no one accidentally confuses me with "Bama" who actually knows something about this stuff.

Bama, thanks for the clarification on the dozer...I had no idea about a dozer-bush hog combo.

Everyone, how much should I expect to pay for arial spraying to kill 40acres of 5-7 year old junk, including sweet-gums that appear nearly impossible to kill? This land is low, gets plenty of water, and it is thick.

 

[Bama]

If you use the bush and bog or that thing that Campground mentioned you wont have to spray. The spraying will cut down on the amount of debris left after the dozer is done. If you are not in a big hurry I wouldn't bother spraying. I would just dozer it the first year then after the sprouts come back up I would ground spray it with 3 parts grazon and one part remedy. This will kill the brush and broadleafs but it wont bother the burmuda that is bound to come up after clearing. You will have some sticks and such left after the first clearing but you can then get after it with a normal size tractor and disc. Or better yet hire a bunch of schooll kids to pick up roots and sticks. A D8 cat will run you about a hundred bucks an hour. Depending on soil type and brush height you will be surprised how much he can do in an hour with the bush and bog.

 

[fellersbarnoneranch]

Wish you well with your midlife crisis ( ) and cattle endeavors!

 

[k alton]

Thanks for the help...I guess I need to get some pasture ready before I worry too much about which critters to buy...will get on it.

 

[Arnold Ziffle]

A good dozer "operator", as opposed to a dozer "driver" can do a heck of a lot of work for you in a couple of days, depending on how many big trees he has to push. But if it has only been lying fallow for 5 years and if you don't want to go the dozer route you could consider the following (it is what I did with a very similar situation) if you think it makes sense in your particular situation:

Get a good heavy duty 6' shredder with a clutch, like a Rhino and about a 50 PTO horse power tractor (you'll want or need similar equipment anyway). I'd bet that on much of the 40 acres you could just pass over it with the shredder just like when doing a normal pasture pass, albeit in a slower gear and maybe cutting a little higher off the ground. Then on the bigger trees & brush, get your shredder high in the air, back up to the individual brush or tree, get your revs up and then slowly lower the shredder as it grinds away, down to about a few inches off the ground. Put Remedy/diesel mixture on what's left of the trunk. That might leave you with a relatively few pretty large diameter trees and/or overgrown brush. Leave some of the desireable one's for pasture shade, scenery, wildlife habitat, etc. and then manually chain saw out the others. Apply Remedy/diesel to the cut stump surface and down the sides of the stump within a few minutes of cutting (say 30 minutes max). Also, its getting to be the time of year that it is pretty darn hot for a weekender that's not "in shape" for such activity to be chainsawing trees while wearing proper hearing protection, hardhat, etc. So if you go that route do it soon --- and do it early am or late pm, or just leave it till winter.

Take lots of before, during and after pictures. It doesn't all have to get done in a few weeks or even months. Work hard at it -- but Enjoy it.

 

[k alton]

I'm going over to the local Farmers COOP this weekend to check on some of these ideas.

Good advice about enjoying it. My wife and I don't want to "move out to the country" for the good life and then end up enslaved by self-imposed deadlines. Truth is, for many projects like this the journey almost as enjoyable as the destination (except for those 95deg+ days with 80% humidity!).

 

[TLCfromARK]

I bushhogged some new ground that was grown up for 1 year. I hit it again the next year and punchured two tires on the stubs.

Clearing sizeable brush is the one place that I found dull blades on a brushhog to be an advantage. If it's set to cut 8-9 inches high it more flays the inds rather then cuts them. I've cleared a good deal of overgrown oak and hickory that way and once I went to a dull blade I din;t staub anymore tires. It's still bad for low pressure tires like 4 whelers or mules, but that more a property of the thin tirre.

dun

I agree with what Dun said but even with sharp blades if you leave you hog up 8" - 12" the staubs left sticking up is tall enough where the tires lay it over as opposed to it sticking straight up ( <6" tall ) as the tire rolls over them. Another plus is that is there are any stumps it will save you some repairs to your hog by running it up a little higher than when you're in a pasture. Once you get it knocked down wait until you get some new tender growth on the staubs then come back and poision to finish killing the stuff.

If you've got the money then the dozer is the way to go, but the sweetgums are hard to kill out either way.

;-)

 

[Bama]

I have tore up a couple of gear boxes on stumps in my time. I have saw several people put hardened bolts in instead of shearpins too.

 

[jerry27150]

a rhino GR84 will cut anything under 4 !/2 inches right down level with the ground & gear box is guaranteed 5 years

 

[Bama]

Thats a whole lotta hog. I wish I could justify getting something like that. I don't need anything that heavy. My pastures are clear. The heaviest thing I clear now is the top of fescue. My motto is spray ever year.