Getting started - breeds

[backhoeboogie]

i'm sorry if i ruffled any feathers. but i'll try to clarify my point.

there may well be nothing but 100% fantastic cattle at every auction in America. But as a novice, how would I know that? i don't know beans about buying cattle. but i do know that if you show up at an example of "capitalism at work on a very basic level", you better know what you're doing. and i don't.

stock market, livestock market, car auction or ebay, you best know what you are looking at and what it's worth or you will get in trouble real fast. capitalism doesn't suffer fools.

You need to learn. Sit thru several auctions. Look at what sells. Look at what brings uproar. It would be good if you could befriend someone local who is in the business.

It is a great way for your kids to learn but calving is what really gets a kids attention. Cows nurturing calves and such too. I really like your values when you speak of kids.

Family sells are okay but cash in hand. Be fair to them but be fair to yourself too. Win/win.

I hauled one to the locker plant a week ago. The owner asked if I had more. He said he always had folks on a list for 1/2 a beef. If I ever had an odd number of clients for half a beef, he wants me to call him. He is looking for sources for his customers, who are looking for good beef. He likes nice steers. You could tell from his comments that he knew his business. You might try talking to someone in that line of work in your area. May be a good source for you or he may put you in contact with sources.

 

[SJB]

No need to apologize! I figure old hands at this business deserve to be cranky!

The marketing is the easy part to me, but I have a big network of friends and family, and that helps.

As far as CL, I wholeheartedly agree. If it was between buying from a sale and CL, I'd go to the sale. Luckily, I've got a couple producers around me that I've helped out over the years and I think will help me and shoot me straight, much like you folks are doing here.

As to the cow/calf deal, that is exactly where I want to go, and the kids are the reason. I just know I don't know enough yet to make that jump. At least with a few freezer steers if it don't work out, I can just throw a big bbq for my family and church and chalk it up to experience. At least I'll have tried.

I can't see much downside to doing it, and there is a whole lot of upside potential.

I cannot grow my own corn. It'd be fun to try but I just ain't going to have the time or resources to try.

 

[John SD]

As to the cow/calf deal, that is exactly where I want to go, and the kids are the reason. I just know I don't know enough yet to make that jump. At least with a few freezer steers if it don't work out, I can just throw a big bbq for my family and church and chalk it up to experience. At least I'll have tried.

IMO the cow/calf deal would be a excellent way for you to enter the business. Specifically, buy older but structurally sound bred cows who have proven themselves over the years, but are getting some age on them. Don't buy an obviously crazy cow or those with a bad attitude. There are a lot of good ol' mamas being culled every year from larger herds just because the older cows just can no longer compete with younger cows in range conditions.

Older "broken mouth" cows who are otherwise still structually sound will work well in a small operation where you can give them a little extra TLC, and they don't have to compete with younger cows in larger herds. Good older cows can do the job on their own when you give them the opportunity. They most likely will calve on their own without assistance, where a first calf heifer is anybody's guess. All a sound older cows need from you is the basics of feed, water, and winter protection, and let her do her job.

When looking for older cows you have to pay special attention to their udders, eyes, feet and hips. Don't buy any cow with a defect that will become worse or incapacitating. The cows can be "broken mouth" or perhaps "gummers" with not a tooth in their head. But they have to be decent condition otherwise and maybe can stick around to get 2-3 calves before they must go down the road to the slaughter plant. By that time they should have produced some good steers to butcher, and heifers ready to come online for you as 2-yr old replacments :idea:

 

[gus2121]

Excellent advise johnsd
SJB, if cow calf is what you want, you just got the best advise IMO. You can still eat the cow if it doesn't work.
Good Luck

 

[skyhightree1]

I just get tired of hearing auction barn = bad when in reality it just ain't so. :

+1 x 95653255324545410243544212454512 :tiphat:

I would also like to add just because you don't know what you are doing doesn't mean the barn is bad... It means you need to do your homework before making a statement on something you know ABSOLUTELY nothing about nor understand. Since you came on here asking about getting started and breeds... Why did you become an expert on sale barns and not on the breeds of cattle you potentially want to raise ? Oh yea ... no apologies on any feathers ruffled from me. :cowboy:
:2cents:

 

[Caustic Burno]

As to the cow/calf deal, that is exactly where I want to go, and the kids are the reason. I just know I don't know enough yet to make that jump. At least with a few freezer steers if it don't work out, I can just throw a big bbq for my family and church and chalk it up to experience. At least I'll have tried.

IMO the cow/calf deal would be a excellent way for you to enter the business. Specifically, buy older but structurally sound bred cows who have proven themselves over the years, but are getting some age on them. Don't buy an obviously crazy cow or those with a bad attitude. There are a lot of good ol' mamas being culled every year from larger herds just because the older cows just can no longer compete with younger cows in range conditions.

Older "broken mouth" cows who are otherwise still structually sound will work well in a small operation where you can give them a little extra TLC, and they don't have to compete with younger cows in larger herds. Good older cows can do the job on their own when you give them the opportunity. They most likely will calve on their own without assistance, where a first calf heifer is anybody's guess. All a sound older cows need from you is the basics of feed, water, and winter protection, and let her do her job.

When looking for older cows you have to pay special attention to their udders, eyes, feet and hips. Don't buy any cow with a defect that will become worse or incapacitating. The cows can be "broken mouth" or perhaps "gummers" with not a tooth in their head. But they have to be decent condition otherwise and maybe can stick around to get 2-3 calves before they must go down the road to the slaughter plant. By that time they should have produced some good steers to butcher, and heifers ready to come online for you as 2-yr old replacments :idea:

Excellent advice the only thing I would add is there will be a day you have to haul
back to the barn to dispose of cattle. Steer clear of the exotics.

 

[Muddy]

Care to elaborate "steer clear of the exotics", Caustic Burno?

 

[skyhightree1]

Care to elaborate "steer out of the exotics", Caustic Burno?

I am not cb but I will tell you a personal experience... I had as friend that decided he wanted to go into cattle and he told me he was going to buy short horns " registered " he did he went somewhere far away and got them. I told him bad move if you are trying to make $$$ in which I knew he was. Long story short he is now selling those off and going to blk angus because the area I am in and sell at DO NOT LIKE EXOTICS.... We are in black hide territory.. You can make more money with a straight Hereford than you can a short horn here. They have some nice looking short horns however, They do get sold but for very little. IMO for me as well as a couple other guys on here ... I like raising cattle but lets face it for me its about the $ I raise what brings the most $ in my area.. I will buy anything that's cheap that I can make money its about the $ for me not the prestige of saying I own cattle.

 

[John SD]

Care to elaborate "steer out of the exotics", Caustic Burno?

I am not cb but I will tell you a personal experience... I had as friend that decided he wanted to go into cattle and he told me he was going to buy short horns " registered " he did he went somewhere far away and got them. I told him bad move if you are trying to make $$$ in which I knew he was. Long story short he is now selling those off and going to blk angus because the area I am in and sell at DO NOT LIKE EXOTICS.... We are in black hide territory.. You can make more money with a straight Hereford than you can a short horn here. They have some nice looking short horns however, They do get sold but for very little. IMO for me as well as a couple other guys on here ... I like raising cattle but lets face it for me its about the $ I raise what brings the most $ in my area.. I will buy anything that's cheap that I can make money its about the $ for me not the prestige of saying I own cattle.

I would not consider a Shorthorn as an "exotic". Shorthorns are considered a "British" and a maternal breed, same as Angus (both black and red) and Herefords (both horned and polled) What few Shorthorns there are out there seem to be discounted at sale time because of their "chrome"

My uncle raised Shorthorns for a long time. I'm a die-hard Hereford guy at heart and I've always had the greatest respect for Shorthorns. Love the "red roan" offspring of Hereford X Shorthorn cattle. Also the "blue roan" offspring of Black Angus X Shorthorn cattle. Either outperforms their straightbred counterpart by most every measure due to hybrid vigor.

I consider a true "exotic" a breed such as Charolais, Limousin, or Salers. Gelbvieh or Simmental can kind of go either way between "maternal" or "exotic". IMO, the best of all worlds is a maternal British crossbred cow bred to an exotic bull. The resulting 3 way cross results in maximum hybrid vigor producing maximum growth efficiency and a very consistent and marketable quality end product to the feedlot and ultimately, to the consumer :idea: :2cents:

My all time favorite feeder calf is the product of a Hereford X Black Angus cow X Charolais. I was on my first year of doing this myself when I discontinued my cow/calf operation. If I had kept going, I was going to decrease cattle number, and start retaining my steers to market as grass yearlings at the end of the next grazing season.

 

[M.Magis]

IMO the cow/calf deal would be a excellent way for you to enter the business. Specifically, buy older but structurally sound bred cows who have proven themselves over the years, but are getting some age on them. Don't buy an obviously crazy cow or those with a bad attitude. There are a lot of good ol' mamas being culled every year from larger herds just because the older cows just can no longer compete with younger cows in range conditions.

This was the route I took when I decided to get back into cattle, at the same time I was starting a family. The main reason is cow/calf was what I wanted. I love to go out on a spring day and find a new calf trying out new legs, and wanted my kids to grow up in the same environment as I did. But also, I believe middle aged-older cows are just easier to handle. Other than the (usually) obvious crazies, mature cows are pretty easy going and as long as you keep them fed and watered, don't typically test the fences. Younger cattle, in my experience, are less predictable. Some show up nervous at everything, and take quite a while to warm up to new people. And you can bet they'll test every inch of fence you have. I do everything by myself, and chasing cattle isn't something I enjoy. Our local sale barn holds a special "Back to Farm" sale each spring where they sell bulls, bred cows and pairs, and also host the Ohio Cattlemens Association's annual "Replacement female" sale. I've found these sales to be good places to find proven, calm cows when I couldn't find them anywhere else around. There may be something similar in your area. The one downside to cow/calf, if freezer beef is your end goal, is that it'll take longer to get the finished product.

 

[John SD]

Other than the (usually) obvious crazies, mature cows are pretty easy going and as long as you keep them fed and watered, don't typically test the fences. Younger cattle, in my experience, are less predictable. Some show up nervous at everything, and take quite a while to warm up to new people. And you can bet they'll test every inch of fence you have.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I got some crazies delivered here today. Went to get my mail and found my yard gate closed. Neighbors are getting a bunch of yearling heifers in for summer pasture. One potload just delivered. I followed the next potload in when I came home.

I certainly don't recommend starting out with yearlings for a novice beginner. These yearling heifers act about like a bunch of teenage girls :lol: :lol: :lol:

No offense intended to teenage girls :hide: :hide: :hide:

 

[skyhightree1]

[
I would not consider a Shorthorn as an "exotic".

True enough but was meaning something buyers do not care for much in the area you are selling I should have specified.

 

[Caustic Burno]

[
I would not consider a Shorthorn as an "exotic".

True enough but was meaning something buyers do not care for much in the area you are selling I should have specified.

Pretty much exotic here as well today.
Thought of as a club animal, when I was kid they were dang near in every pasture.

 

[SJB]

if i ain't said it yet, thanks. lots of good info and still more coming.

question:

what is "chrome"?

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Markings on a calf or cow patches of white linebacks white legs that's chrome.

 

[SJB]

What is bad about it - something with the breed I assume?

I thought black calves with white faces were money makers?

 

[Rafter S]

What is bad about it - something with the breed I assume?

I thought black calves with white faces were money makers?

Different terms mean different things to different people. To me chrome refers to cattle that are roan or spotted, so Hereford markings wouldn't qualify.

And yes, in many (maybe most) parts of the country there is good demand for black white-faced cattle.

 

[Muddy]

What is bad about it - something with the breed I assume?

I thought black calves with white faces were money makers?

White faced blacks are fine. Buyers are using the chrome or other odd colors as an excuse to dock the calves to buy them cheap. Chromed calves are usually spotted, skunktailed, belted, roan and British White markings.

They will docked straight Herefords and red baldies as well. Even white faced blacks with feather neck are docked too.

 

[Caustic Burno]

What is bad about it - something with the breed I assume?

I thought black calves with white faces were money makers?

Can't speak for Tn but a black baldie has brought a premium all my life
here in Texas through the barn.
The Brangus and the Braford have always been the market leader in farm girls.

 

[Son of Butch]

Get some Wagyu that is suppose to be the best.

Kobe beef which only comes from Wagyu cattle is the Gold Standard for flavor and tenderness.
http://www.kobebeefstore.com/kobe-beef-steak.html

Wagyu is an exotic breed and you would get killed selling in a traditional marketplace.
The cattle are slow growing, small, thin and frankly a bit of an embarrassment to look at in the front pasture.
BUT for carcass quality there are none better. Definitely a niche market item at $10 lb for hamburger and $50 steaks.
Beef you would be proud to serve to friends and family.
http://www.heartbrandbeef.com/Heartbran ... hop_ribeye
edited to add American Wagyu link: www.wagyu.org