Funnel Butt Angus Cattle

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I have always agreed with Doc on the "Funnel Butt" angus cattle. There are so many in the breed, and it must becoming a less desireable trait since they try to hide it by placing the cows down hill to drop the angle lower. But still, I see so many heifers in the show catalog being sold as the top calves in the sale.

There is nothing about it that is eye appealing, but it has health issues for the cow.

I see a greater percentage of FB's with less muscle mass in the rear quarters. The muscles sinks in with the curve of the back leg from the pin to the hock.

One thing to consider about a "Funnel Butt" cow, is that it the pins are higher than the hooks. This causes the reproductive track to be tilted downward. When the cow passes solid waste, it passes over the vulva, and goes inside, and will pool inside the vagina. This can lead to infections and reproductive problems. She may continue to cycle every 30 days and it might be a mystery to some why she is doing this. If she is an A.I. cow, she might slide by since the bull isn't pushing the bacteria in all the way. This is not always the case, but is something to consider.

I see most FB's with straight hips and legs, which would make a bull harder breeder. The hip bones angles are off.

In horses, the rear end of the horse is sewn up enough to prevent the manure from going up inside, and is cut open a month or so before she foals.

So this is something to consider when purchasing FB bulls or cows that could pass this on to your herd.
 
Strange how so many of these "Funnel Butts" are being sold "as the top calves in the sale."

Seems like a large percentage of the actual buyers out there disagree with your perception of funnel butt.
 
Bull Barn has many really nice bulls to pick from. But they advertise for everyone, and can't discriminate because they don't like the way a bull looks. There are plenty to compare there since there are so many to look at. But I did find these in the listing. These bulls may be throwing heavy weight commercial calves and people are making big profits with the calves. If someone has a bull like that with sperm to sell, and you are looking to A.I. for commercial calves, then this would be the ticket.

So this is just my personal opinion, and I do not care for the looks of this bull, as not everyone likes the looks of what I own. But I think these bulls will probably pass the "Funnel Butt" look to the calves.

http://bullbarn.com/angblkepd.asp?ID=1749
http://bullbarn.com/angblkepd.asp?ID=1377
http://bullbarn.com/angblkepd.asp?ID=1551
http://bullbarn.com/angblkepd.asp?ID=1879

Then here are two that do not have "Funnel Butts." I am not saying that I am in love with these bulls all together, but just focusing on the trait. It was difficult to find one without it.

http://bullbarn.com/angblkepd.asp?ID=1346
http://bullbarn.com/angblkepd.asp?ID=639
 
Chuckie":2rhsffrr said:
3MR, you are absolutely correct on that. The good part for me is that I can pick from the left over's at the sales that don't have it!! :D

Kind of like being the only kid at the party who likes black licorice. :) You get it all for yourself.
 
The more angular- or FB- the more maternal oriented they are. The upward sloping pelvic you are referring to is a completely separate issue. They select for that in show cattle as -when clipped up- it gives that stylish swooping top line where the poll and tailhead are the highest points. You'll even see them clip the hair on the tailheadto stand up like a Mohawk to accentuate this. Personally I hate the look. I like the top line to terminate at a sharp right angle going downwards to the rump. I don't like seeing a tailhead that's a higher elevation than the top line either.
 
I am guessing that the FB show cattle are possibly headed towards the majority, as it seems all the rage right now.
Some thing that has really bothered me is the predominance of skinny little behinds in the angus breed. Alot of the bulls that I see are heavy on the front end with an "angus A$$ " on the rear that looks like a jersy butt. They are not balanced at all, and we are not talking about looking like a double muscled animal either, just scrawny behinds with no meat.
Probably kicked a beehive on that one, but it is true....
 
Nite Hawk":3lh1lppz said:
I am guessing that the FB show cattle are possibly headed towards the majority, as it seems all the rage right now.
Some thing that has really bothered me is the predominance of skinny little behinds in the angus breed. Alot of the bulls that I see are heavy on the front end with an "angus A$$ " on the rear that looks like a jersy butt. They are not balanced at all, and we are not talking about looking like a double muscled animal either, just scrawny behinds with no meat.
Probably kicked a beehive on that one, but it is true....

That is a trait that really bothers me also. Gives me a fit when Bull shopping.

fitz
 
Taurus":26cjavtx said:
Yup I seen lot of FB bulls lately that should be cut.

Judging by what is being sold as packer bull (former breeders) 80% of the bulls used for breeding probably should have been cut....but it's all many can afford.
 
Rowdy":100i7l3t said:
Doc needs to come in and explain antagonistic beef cattle characteristics here.

Any attempt to succinctly define "Antagonistic Beef Cattle characteristics" in a distinct and differentiating procedure would be as futile as an attempt to decode the old platitude - "What Is The Meaning of Life??".

Briefly, there are specific traits and characteristics in the DNA and EPD's of beef cattle which are necessary for the optimal functioning of those cattle in achieving desired results for goals and profit. The genetic transmission of those traits to progeny by the matings of bulls and cows is what manifests success in a breeding protocol, or program. The determination of HOW to achieve the success of these matings lies in the knowledge of which traits and characteristics are compatible with each other (or are harmonious together) - OR - are antagonistic to each other (or act in opposition to each other). Scientists, cattle breeders, and investigators are discovering multiple traits and characteristics in beef cattle EPD's and DNA profiles every year (or more frequently) - which profiles indicate a higher genetic potential for those traits! The operative word here is "Potential", because higher DNA markers do not necessarily indicate that it is the most desirable!

. . . and why is that the case??

Here is where we" hit the wall" :bang: so to speak with "Antagonistic Traits and Characteristics." This is such a complicated subject that so many articles and papers have been published regarding it that I won't even attempt to itemize them. But here are two in particular that illustrates the point: 1-marbling and leanness and 2- birth weight and weaning weight. But here are two references that an interested examiner, seeker and searcher can peruse for themselves. It is a fascinating subject, and by applying this knowledge to one's own beef protocols and mating agendas, one may possibly enhance their beef breeding operation exponentially.

Note particularly the references to "Crossbreeding" and the importance of heterosis (hybrid vigor) in some of these links. Careful observance and strict attention to antagonistic and compatible characteristics can spell the difference between financial success, and untimately changing professions!

Search for "Selecting For Carcass Marbling and Muscling-Benefits and Pitfalls" by Jim Gosey, University of Nebraska, [Look under "Dogpile.com], and
http://cattletoday.com/archive/2009/December/CT2124.php ]

I just found another source in which you may be interested: http//www.huthcattle.com/philosophy.html

Happy studying and learning!

DOC HARRIS
 
What I am talking about is bulls that look like 2 different animals put together. Their back end just doesn't fit the front end. Big heavy meaty shoulders and decent ribs and a "greyhound" butt that just doesn't fit the front end. Extremely common in the modern angus, -around here anyways.
Look at them from behind /twist area, and from the side, whats there? Not much..
I am not thinking that the angus should be a limo, or pied, in body type, but they should at least be balanced between their front and back end.
Stop and think about it for a minute, where are the best and most cuts on the average beef? the shoulders or the loin and hips and hindquarters?
Lack of meat equals lack of dollars when they cross the butcher table, especially when they cost as much to feed as an animal with more meat on their carcass.
The Angus has many good traits which I like, but I think they are the victim of the latest "fad" to sweep the show ring, which in turn trickles down the the average breeder as the "ideal" animal..
My opinion.
 
Nite Hawk":3l6rxf4f said:
What I am talking about is bulls that look like 2 different animals put together. Their back end just doesn't fit the front end. Big heavy meaty shoulders and decent ribs and a "greyhound" butt that just doesn't fit the front end. Extremely common in the modern angus, -around here anyways.
Look at them from behind /twist area, and from the side, whats there? Not much..
I am not thinking that the angus should be a limo, or pied, in body type, but they should at least be balanced between their front and back end.
Stop and think about it for a minute, where are the best and most cuts on the average beef? the shoulders or the loin and hips and hindquarters?
Lack of meat equals lack of dollars when they cross the butcher table, especially when they cost as much to feed as an animal with more meat on their carcass.
The Angus has many good traits which I like, but I think they are the victim of the latest "fad" to sweep the show ring, which in turn trickles down the the average breeder as the "ideal" animal..
My opinion.

Nite Hawk-

You opinion is the same that I have propounded and railed against with Angus breeders for the last 40 years! That is why I came up with the term "Funnel Butt"! Some breeders were not in agreement with me, but facts are facts! One can label an animal anything that they wish, but knowledge and reality is what it is, and facts don't change.

DOC HARRIS
 
Chuckie,
You posted BT Right Time 24J not having a fb so what do you think of Hyline Right Time 338?
 
ousoonerfan22":24apia4g said:
Chuckie,
You posted BT Right Time 24J not having a fb so what do you think of Hyline Right Time 338?


338 is my Bull's Grandsire. Pictured coming 16 months.


DSC00596.JPG



fitz
 

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