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KNERSIE

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Dark red enough? Two halfsib bred heifers, 18 months old.
100_4845.jpg


This is the one on the left in the above photo
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Another halfsib
HVR0712.jpg


See sometimes even a biased blind hog can find an acorn ;-)
 

HerefordSire

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Knersie...if these photos were for my viewing pleasure as your title text reads, why did you not PM them to me instead of post on the boards for all to see? In a different tone, do you have any with sway backs in your environment? What are your longevity experiences related to sway backs in your environment? Have you ever had sway backs in your environment? What type of evidence is there in regards to sway back longevity on the internet? Is your choise to breed non-sway backs related to longevity....in other words, could it be you want your show cattle to win a contest?

Your dark red is very impressive. Was that a coincidence or do you prefer dard red? If you do, why?
 

CPL

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HerefordSire":1d1qfptn said:
Knersie...if these photos were for my viewing pleasure as your title text reads, why did you not PM them to me instead of post on the boards for all to see?


Because he knows a few of us like to snoop! :shock: Harley I love that heifer!
 
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KNERSIE

KNERSIE

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HerefordSire":2d5g4qid said:
Knersie...if these photos were for my viewing pleasure as your title text reads, why did you not PM them to me instead of post on the boards for all to see? In a different tone, do you have any with sway backs in your environment? What are your longevity experiences related to sway backs in your environment? Have you ever had sway backs in your environment? What type of evidence is there in regards to sway back longevity on the internet? Is your choise to breed non-sway backs related to longevity....in other words, could it be you want your show cattle to win a contest?

Your dark red is very impressive. Was that a coincidence or do you prefer dard red? If you do, why?

I have long ago given up communicating with you in private messages, as you remember there was a time when I tried to answer all your questions in detail, and offered my advice, but you chose to rather try and ridicule me on the boards.

As everywhere else in the world you'll find swaybacks here, they are still not desireable. In my registered herd I don't have swaybacks as I don't tolerate them. That still doesn't mean every topline in my herd is perfect, no one taes photos of their worst animals to post on the internet.

As I have answered in another thread a few days ago swaybacks affect longevity in especially cows because of the added strain caused by pregnancies. I have also explained there that the loin is structurally the weakest spot in the spine and why the breakdown occurs there and what the effect of that is. No idea what evidence is on the internet, cattle breeding is my game, the world wide web isn't.

I cull swaybacks for longevity reasons as well as business reasons, you'll find its awfully hard to sell swaybacked bulls.

I am not a showman at all and actually believe beauty contest shows is hampering the breed and has been for a very long time. I do show a few animals every year for advertisement purposes and to be visible as a breeder, but I show what I breed, regardless of whether its not mainstream (which mine isn't), and don't breed to show.

The dark red wasn't specifically selected for coat colour, I used the sire of those heifers and bull to correct heads and eyes, the dark colour was just part of the deal. The bull did a good job on heads and eyes, but wasn't the overall package I hoped him to be and I have quit using him.

A week ago I have explained in detail what I select for in terms of coats, a thread you participated in. I prefer a good coat, whether its dark red or more yellow makes no difference to me.

George, the oldtimers believed linebacks were better milkers, (that is not a scientific proven fact, herefordsire) I don't prefer linebacks nor do I discriminate against them nor against rednecks nor a little extra flashy white. I wouldn't cull a good animal because the markings isn't according to what was publised in 1937 for the showring circuit in the USA at the time.
 

HerefordSire

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Knersie....all hard feelings aside....I am gonna get to the chase...how do you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the added strain caused by pregnancies reduces longevity in sway-backed cattle?
 
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KNERSIE

KNERSIE

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HerefordSire":2al5gmay said:
Knersie....all hard feelings aside....I am gonna get to the chase...how do you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the added strain caused by pregnancies reduces longevity in sway-backed cattle?

If you choose to ignore the literature on this... and really want to know how I know it except from reading...

I know this from experience.

Let's leave debatable peasant wisdom aside and look at hard evidence. Look at a drawing of the skeletal structure of a bovine, paying close attention to the spine and tell me what you see behind the 12th rib and before the pelvis. Then I'll continue this discussion if you're still interested in learning to understand the reason behind this. If you are only interested in an argument and disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing, don't bother to reply.
 

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KNERSIE":1fz47tcg said:
HerefordSire":1fz47tcg said:
Knersie....all hard feelings aside....I am gonna get to the chase...how do you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the added strain caused by pregnancies reduces longevity in sway-backed cattle?

If you choose to ignore the literature on this... and really want to know how I know it except from reading...

I know this from experience.

Let's leave debatable peasant wisdom aside and look at hard evidence. Look at a drawing of the skeletal structure of a bovine, paying close attention to the spine and tell me what you see behind the 12th rib and before the pelvis. Then I'll continue this discussion if you're still interested in learning to understand the reason behind this. If you are only interested in an argument and disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing, don't bother to reply.

Are you referring to the end of the Thoracic Vertebrae?
 

novatech

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I am no expert on conformation by any means. Nor am I an expert on cattle anatomy. But from a common sense point of view looking at how the backbone is built, there are disks between every section of the spine. In a straight back the disks will have equal pressure top and bottom. With a sway back there would be more pressure on the top causing more wear to occur. Over time this would start to have it's effect on the animal affecting longevity. I can see this happening more in the loin area where the spine has no rib structure to help support it.
Isn,t the loin and lumbar the same?
 

HerefordSire

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novatech":cdiy7u49 said:
I am no expert on conformation by any means. Nor am I an expert on cattle anatomy. But from a common sense point of view looking at how the backbone is built, there are disks between every section of the spine. In a straight back the disks will have equal pressure top and bottom. With a sway back there would be more pressure on the top causing more wear to occur. Over time this would start to have it's effect on the animal affecting longevity. I can see this happening more in the loin area where the spine has no rib structure to help support it.
Isn,t the loin and lumbar the same?

Why do you suppose mother nature allowed the loin area (lower spine) to be unsupported by ribs? Population control?
 
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