Explanations from you

[cowgirl8]

I am surprised to see you running two 14 month old bulls with your cattle. Is this the only bulls you have? The bulls are under developed for their age, and putting them out with the cows, will not help them mature reproductively at all.
I noticed you commented on the "fat bulls," but if you don't buy a bull with a huge barrel belly and turn him loose on acreage, he is going to be grazing more than he will be traveling. He must be able to store the grass and travel. And he needs a large butt. That is where the term butts and guts comes from.
A trained eye can see a bull through extra weight. Take someone with you if you don't know what you are looking at.
A fat bull shows you he can gain weight easy, and they gain weight on good grass. A fat bull can always lose weight, but a thin bull cannot always put it on. Just because a bull is thin, doesn't mean he can walk for ever.
The little red bull you show has really straight legs, and he will be short strides in the rear end. He will never get his legs up underneath his belly to walk fast. He also will be rough on the girls when he starts breeding. The mechanics of the legs and the angles are what makes your bulls travel around the fields.

No, we have at the moment 11 bulls. We have 4 registered angus, 2 registered sim/angus, one 3/4 angus 1/4 brangus, 1 home grown simbra/angus(for replacements), 1 homegrown sim/angus. then we have 3 yearling helper bulls. The older home grown bulls are out of show heifers and registered bulls we ran years ago....some were products of AIing.
The red bull is just fine when he breeds, can even breed when he walks, bred a cow several time while running that herd up to the corral yesterday. What you guys cant see in the pictures i posted of the red bull is just how big he is at 14 months and he did it while not being fed grain and he's been on a herd of 32 cows all summer. He may look immature, but believe me he's a big fluffy boy.... We've been keeping bulls for many years. Out of 200 cows, we had only 5 open this year. 3 of those were heifers. I'd say theres a problem if we had many open cows over the years.

 

[cowgirl8]

Why do my calves need to be uniform? What does it mean to be uniform, same breed? same color? same age? same sex?

They only have to be uniform if you are wanting to sell a trailer load of calves. It all boils down to how you choose to market them. There are benefits to putting together a potload but there are costs as well. You need to weigh it all out decide what's right for you. There is no right or wrong answer to this.

One year we kept all our weanlings and the day after we weaned a northern blew through dumping cold rain that wouldnt stop. All our calves were standing in cold belly deep mud. We constructed a new pen, but it only took a short time for them to be buried in mud again. There is a reason why there are no feed lots anywhere near us. lol We didnt lose any, but i guarantee no one gained any weight for weeks...

This is just one of the problems/costs you run into trying put together a pot load.

After our last drought I stopped selling trailer loads and went back to selling other routes. In my situation I barely had enough land to raise the uniformity I needed even though I had closed my calving cycle down to 45 days with a nearly perfect live calving rate. It worked perfectly on paper but in actuality it caused more problems and stress than the premium was worth.

Just look at it this way, say you have a 100 cows that average 1000 lbs each and you have a perfect calving season and you have 100 5 weight calves by their side. Just prior to your selling you are essentially feeding a 150,000 lb animal which requires somewhere around 4500 lbs of dry matter per day - and this needs to be good stuff - which can really test your resources not to mention you fences. Let one thing go wrong in your equation and you'll be subsidizing their feed which comes at a cost.

Then say you sell your calves and you drop back to only a 100,000 lb animal needing 3000 lbs of dry matter a day. It will be months before they begin to fully utilize forage so you have surplus forage which after 30 days begins to lose its nutritional value. So basically you are not utilizing your resources. Its like you go from one extreme to the other if you catch what I'm saying.

At the moment I am leaving my bulls with the cows continuously and only remove replacements. Some said this was wrong since having calves all year was just silly but its painfully obvious they didn't know what they were talking about. Basically they have set their own calving schedule and are calving in the fall and the spring and not every day of the year like the naysayers predicted. By doing this I am feeding an animal that weighs no more than 125,000 lb 365 days of the year. No longer is there feast and famine. Everything is in moderation. Not only does it reduce any spikes in feed requirements it also allows me to play the market a little better and not have all my eggs in one basket. Also, and probably more importantly, I am now getting several checks through the year rather than one big check. Try getting a big check a month before the end of the year and see how well that works for you. It wasn't pretty in my case.

A lot of great logical stuff said in this post!!!!

 

[cowgirl8]

I'd also like to ask a question on uniformity. I cant count the times i've been told this. Out of the 200 calves, we have around 20 reds, 5 greys and 4 sim marked ones. So, around 30 are not black or black w/f.. The blacks will all be angus breeding and will show that they are mostly angus. Other than being in a span of 3 months of age, why are my calves not uniform?

 

[mwj]

I'd also like to ask a question on uniformity. I cant count the times i've been told this. Out of the 200 calves, we have around 20 reds, 5 greys and 4 sim marked ones. So, around 30 are not black or black w/f.. The blacks will all be angus breeding and will show that they are mostly angus. Other than being in a span of 3 months of age, why are my calves not uniform?

What did you do with the trailer load of colored calves you mentioned earlier?

 

[mwj]

The same sex is impossible or almost. So I will move on to the uniformity part, with as many cows as y'all have you can get two plus pot loads of close to the same size and sex and color calves. This is worth a good bit more to the person that's going to feed and background them. The other advantage of selling pot loads is, you cut one or more of the middle men out, which is more money in your pocket for the same amount of work. There's a lot of buyers making a living buying calves and putting loads of like size, color and sex together. Why not do this yourself and pocket the difference. I'm sure you don't let your bulls inbreed but keeping things straight is tough for even the best bookkeeper. The folks that raise quality bulls for a living have the knowledge experience, and proven blood lines for generations. Cowgirl, your no dummy that's for sure and you enjoy what you do, more power to you. I know very little about the cow business, but some of my family have been raising cows for ever in this country. And sell upwards of 20-30 pot loads a year.

We are going to have over 100 black calves. They will be similar enough in frame, some will have a little more ear, but angus will be seen in almost every calf. Yes, we have some other colors, but i can fill a trailer load of each color. There are people in this forum who raise one color or another. Each has their own reason for the breed and color they use. If they have 20 of their favorite type, how is that different than me having a trailer load of red calves that dont match my black ones?[/quot



Are you saying that you are getting 100 black calves from 250 cows or that you get 30 non black calves from 250 cows? If you could be more specific you will get better advice.

 

[bigbull338]

from what more ive read yall are doing a great job managing your herd.i to like to use home grown bulls if i can.but even they cost money in the long run.i see that yall only buy new bloodlines when you have to and thats fine.buts what i would do.i would set aside say 100acs for a seedstock herd.since yall use black bulls id say buy a few reg angus cows and as good of reg bull you can find.and use themto produce herd bulls for your stock cow herd.running 12 bulls on the cows you prolly need 15 or 20 seedstock to produce 4 new bulls a year to grow out and turn out with the cows at 20 months of age.

 

[hurleyjd]

Every one has their own idea of how to manage. I have a friend that runs a small herd. He sells calves at 6 months regardless of the weight. He never keeps a replacement heifer. He keeps a cow that works and sells the cows that weans a small calve and buys another cow that is old enough to start contributing at once. He has shown me check stubs of 400 lb calves that were over $1000. Also another one that I know does the net bio program. His calves may sell for a $100 more then the first friend I told you about. The net bio seller I would suspect has more than a $100 in each calve as you have to have them on feed, weaned, vaccinated with the required vaccine. How do I mange not very well. Try to do everything by myself and its get tiring. I talk about selling and doing nothing for a while. I am focusing in on the doing nothing and spend about 5 hours on it and working for 4 hours a day working on the farm. Only thing about doing nothing you never know when you get done. I get on a tractor to shred and I may go for 4 hours. My azz wears out before I get through. Well 5 more hours Monday doing nothing and then 4 hours shredding. On selling cattle I load and carry them to a sale I have 4 auction barns with in 20 miles of my place so that is the most convenient way to market what I sell.

 

[cowgirl8]

The same sex is impossible or almost. So I will move on to the uniformity part, with as many cows as y'all have you can get two plus pot loads of close to the same size and sex and color calves. This is worth a good bit more to the person that's going to feed and background them. The other advantage of selling pot loads is, you cut one or more of the middle men out, which is more money in your pocket for the same amount of work. There's a lot of buyers making a living buying calves and putting loads of like size, color and sex together. Why not do this yourself and pocket the difference. I'm sure you don't let your bulls inbreed but keeping things straight is tough for even the best bookkeeper. The folks that raise quality bulls for a living have the knowledge experience, and proven blood lines for generations. Cowgirl, your no dummy that's for sure and you enjoy what you do, more power to you. I know very little about the cow business, but some of my family have been raising cows for ever in this country. And sell upwards of 20-30 pot loads a year.

We are going to have over 100 black calves. They will be similar enough in frame, some will have a little more ear, but angus will be seen in almost every calf. Yes, we have some other colors, but i can fill a trailer load of each color. There are people in this forum who raise one color or another. Each has their own reason for the breed and color they use. If they have 20 of their favorite type, how is that different than me having a trailer load of red calves that dont match my black ones?[/quot



Are you saying that you are getting 100 black calves from 250 cows or that you get 30 non black calves from 250 cows? If you could be more specific you will get better advice.

We will have around 200 calves. i can get a trailer full of majority black, black w/f steers of around 100...maybe not all steers. Half of the calves will be heifers out of the 200. Out of our 200 calves around 30 will be red, grey or colored like a sim total..... I can get a trailer of around 20 red and grey steers..

 

[Brute 23]

The best way to make money in cattle is go play golf or fish. Less is more.

 

[cowgirl8]

The best way to make money in cattle is go play golf or fish. Less is more.

Fro sho! :lol2:

 

[backhoeboogie]

Mine calve about every 11 months, give or take a couple of weeks. Year round. About half are uniform in breed. A dozen or so are uniform in size and breed each year.

Since I run a few dairy cows (nurse cows) I'll never be 100% uniform. Heck I can't buy beef bottle babies that are uniform.

Making profit is what I focus on. Won't sell hay at a loss or even break even.

Sell beef calves to friends for freezer beef. Sell some at the sale barn. Hate to sell too many at once. You never know what the market can do week to week. It's been good every week this year.

 

[cow pollinater]

Uniformity here is as much about everyone else's cattle as it is yours. You're fine to sell ones and twos as long as there are enough other ones and twos going through for someone to put together a mixed load of similar cattle. Black calves of at least half angus sell well even as ones and twos because it's so easy to put together a similar bunch of them... But if you're the only one selling eared cattle or your calves are a hundred pounds over what everyone else brought you'd better have a whole bunch of them or they're going to dock the crap out of your calves. If you DO have enough to make a set for someone then they sell just fine.

 

[Ouachita]

Cowgirl, I don't think I've ever said anything negative about your operation. I did say in a post that you seem haphazard. I meant it as an observation not an insult. Maybe I should have used the word "carefree". You said you don't worry about money. That explains a lot. I think you could take steps to improve the bottom line, but I don't fault you for not wanting to complicate your life. I applaud your desire for simplicity.

 

[cowgirl8]

Cowgirl, I don't think I've ever said anything negative about your operation. I did say in a post that you seem haphazard. I meant it as an observation not an insult. Maybe I should have used the word "carefree". You said you don't worry about money. That explains a lot. I think you could take steps to improve the bottom line, but I don't fault you for not wanting to complicate your life. I applaud your desire for simplicity.

:lol: but i am haphazard.....did not take it as an insult. It was funny because if you looked for the definition of the word, my picture would be under it...

 

[cowgirl8]

Uniformity here is as much about everyone else's cattle as it is yours. You're fine to sell ones and twos as long as there are enough other ones and twos going through for someone to put together a mixed load of similar cattle. Black calves of at least half angus sell well even as ones and twos because it's so easy to put together a similar bunch of them... But if you're the only one selling eared cattle or your calves are a hundred pounds over what everyone else brought you'd better have a whole bunch of them or they're going to dock the crap out of your calves. If you DO have enough to make a set for someone then they sell just fine.

I have questions. So when weekend cowboy takes his 15 weanlings to the sale, they get put into a lot with grandpa's last of the litter trailer full and rancher wannaby's bumper pull load, they go into the ring and get bids. Now, all these calves are mixed up, they run through like lightning(i've never been to a sale where calves are done in numerical order).....all really really good calves, but all mixed up so that each one of each guys calves are all jumbled. Now, do the buyers stop and think, did that calve belong to the 3, 5 minutes ago and i must look to see if the rest of this guys calves match or if i can get a trailer load? Or did he think, heck those are good calves and they fit my program and bids. We took one calf to the sale a while back and he got top dollar for that weekend. He was huge and was colored like a holstein...but he was beefy, growthy and a sharp buyer knew he was angus and sim....That was one calf and he was big and he didnt get docked..

 

[LauraleesFarm]

Cowgirl8
I have read a lot of your posts and I have said before and will say again. I have NO problem whatsoever with ANY of your beef cattle operation and the way you run it. I applaud you for the work that you are doing and there aren't a lot of cattlemen's wives that can compare theirs to your daily chores. I have enjoyed and looked forward to seeing the pictures you have posted.
If everyone had exactly the same type of cattle raised the same way and everything uniform, life would look like those little monopoly pieces for the hotels and houses, except they would be plastic cows. How boring. I just hauled my little bullcalf crop to the salebarn and got EXCELLENT prices for them individually even though only 5 were black, 2 were F1 tigers with ear, 1 was black tiger and 1 charolais. When you haul to the salebarn, nobody cares if they are uniform. Because HERE in EAST TX they run them through one at a time. Yep. One at a time.
Now, some folks are enlightening you that you could cut out the salebarn and sell by the truckload. That might be something you could look into. A set of scales and a loading ramp wouldn't cost all that much. So it is a thought.
I'm sure that had already crossed your mind, but every person goes with the system that fits them best.
I would bet your a lot of fun, haphazard or not.

 

[cowgirl8]

Cowgirl8
I have read a lot of your posts and I have said before and will say again. I have NO problem whatsoever with ANY of your beef cattle operation and the way you run it. I applaud you for the work that you are doing and there aren't a lot of cattlemen's wives that can compare theirs to your daily chores. I have enjoyed and looked forward to seeing the pictures you have posted.
If everyone had exactly the same type of cattle raised the same way and everything uniform, life would look like those little monopoly pieces for the hotels and houses, except they would be plastic cows. How boring. I just hauled my little bullcalf crop to the salebarn and got EXCELLENT prices for them individually even though only 5 were black, 2 were F1 tigers with ear, 1 was black tiger and 1 charolais. When you haul to the salebarn, nobody cares if they are uniform. Because HERE in EAST TX they run them through one at a time. Yep. One at a time.
Now, some folks are enlightening you that you could cut out the salebarn and sell by the truckload. That might be something you could look into. A set of scales and a loading ramp wouldn't cost all that much. So it is a thought.
I'm sure that had already crossed your mind, but every person goes with the system that fits them best.
I would bet your a lot of fun, haphazard or not.

How did the tiger striped do? I know heifers do well. I have 2 tiger heifers i'm going to keep and i have 2 tiger steers with white faces.. was your charolais totally white or was it grey? How did it do? What sale do you go to?

 

[bigbull338]

very if any sale barns run calves in as groups.and they sure dont run each owners calves 1 right behind the other.when the calf sale starts they go with the 1st pen of calves to come in.and that pen of calves maybe from 10 differant owners.

 

[cowgirl8]

very if any sale barns run calves in as groups.and they sure dont run each owners calves 1 right behind the other.when the calf sale starts they go with the 1st pen of calves to come in.and that pen of calves maybe from 10 differant owners.

I do know you can submit a pen of calves and sell all at one price. I know people who do this, kind of scares me. I mean, if you get 205 a pound for a group of 10, but some of them might have brought 225 if not put into the group. but it could go the other way too, some may have brought 199...I hate everything about selling..... I need to sit and watch more often to get a grip of how it operates. I just hear bibbly blabbly yibbly dibblity....and you have to wait for the weight, or you get the weight first and then the calf. Its gotta be a very hard job, those guys have to get what their boss wants. It must be stressful, we have the easy job..lol

 

[bigbull338]

very if any sale barns run calves in as groups.and they sure dont run each owners calves 1 right behind the other.when the calf sale starts they go with the 1st pen of calves to come in.and that pen of calves maybe from 10 differant owners.

I do know you can submit a pen of calves and sell all at one price. I know people who do this, kind of scares me. I mean, if you get 205 a pound for a group of 10, but some of them might have brought 225 if not put into the group. but it could go the other way too, some may have brought 199...I hate everything about selling..... I need to sit and watch more often to get a grip of how it operates. I just hear bibbly blabbly yibbly dibblity....and you have to wait for the weight, or you get the weight first and then the calf. Its gotta be a very hard job, those guys have to get what their boss wants. It must be stressful, we have the easy job..lol

i used to spend a large amount of time at the sale barns from 84 till 2000.by that i mean pretty muchly 2 sales a week when i had time.i got so good i could guess the calves cows and bulls weight with in 100lbs.most times i could get as close as 25 to 50lbs on their actual weight.