EPD's for temperment?

[Hippie Rancher]

I'm not going to ask what breed you think is the easiest to handle, I am sure you will chime in on that. I do realize that a lot of temperament is based on handling, but we all know of those individual animals that are just nuts no matter how much you hand feed or whatever to settle them down.

What I want to know is are there any breed associations that have attempted to measure this in any way or are any actively pursuing some kind of marker for gentleness?

I have been trying to turn the very rainbow herd darker with various black bulls, but I'm thinking I would really like to work on getting cows that are still good mothers (protective), have good bunching/heard-forming instincts, yet willing to allow some handling from humans without tearing things apart.

I know some of the best (and worst) are Brahma but I think I have enough ear now. Would almost like to go back to Hereford bulls but they sure aren't very herd forming. Too many years of selecting for them to spread out. And nothing worse than an old Hereford standing under a bush watching you scream your head off, while the rest of them leave the country.

 

[Frankie]

The Angus Assn is creating an EPD for disposition. I'm not sure when it's supposed to be published, though. I think the Limousin breed already has one.

Temperment (disposition) is important for more than just a convience in handling standpoint. We know that calmer cattle gain better in the feedlot.

 

[Avalon]

add to that, AI'd cattle do much better when they are gentle and not nervous. I can breed a nut but have noticed a lower percentage take on the first try.

 

[novatech]

I'm not going to ask what breed you think is the easiest to handle, I am sure you will chime in on that. I do realize that a lot of temperament is based on handling, but we all know of those individual animals that are just nuts no matter how much you hand feed or whatever to settle them down.

What I want to know is are there any breed associations that have attempted to measure this in any way or are any actively pursuing some kind of marker for gentleness?

I have been trying to turn the very rainbow herd darker with various black bulls, but I'm thinking I would really like to work on getting cows that are still good mothers (protective), have good bunching/heard-forming instincts, yet willing to allow some handling from humans without tearing things apart.

I know some of the best (and worst) are Brahma but I think I have enough ear now. Would almost like to go back to Hereford bulls but they sure aren't very herd forming. Too many years of selecting for them to spread out. And nothing worse than an old Hereford standing under a bush watching you scream your head off, while the rest of them leave the country.

Genestar has identified a gene marker for temperament. I do not know if the test has been released.

 

[TB-Herefords]

I know temperment is passed on to offspring; but cattle will adapt to thier enviroment. Some enviroments don't support docile cattle. You take a cow or bull that is very docile and easy going put'em on a 1000 acre pasture where they see more coyotes, wolves, and bears than people, trucks, and grain buckets thier "disposition" will change considerably. If you can't tell how docile an animal is when previewing befor you purchase it than get some :help:. Here's a few pointers; the bull that test the stregth of top rail in ring might not work on your ten acre pastures. The cow that plays pick-a-boo with the ring help; you probly should let her go too. I know she's going real cheap; but she'll cost you in the end. ;-)

 

[Hippie Rancher]

Thanks for the info. Haven't been too involved in purebreds for a couple years. Need to buy bulls this spring. Usually buy mostly from reputable breeders by "eye" - never really learned all the stats on 'em, but got to thinking I wonder if they have started to include disposition.

Good point on gains, Frankie. Embarrassed that I was mostly thinking of myself in the corrals.

And it makes sense for the AI settling too.

Interesting about potential gene identification, it would seem more complex than single traits to me.

TB, yeah you have to make the ultimate call in person, I was just curious if the breed associations were attempting to quantify.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Any breeder who goes to a sale and "discovers" the perfect answer to his selection needs, bull OR cow, and realizes that he/she/it wants to flee the scene, or take the nearest human being for a "Tilt-O-Whirl" ride on it back, is just kidding himself if he brings that animal home! I don't care HOW 'cheap' it is! Docility, or the lack of it, is a moderate to high heritablity trait, and to deliberatly introduce a ring-tailed ding-bat into your herd for WHATEVER reason just insures that you are asking for trouble, and are going to GET it - eventually!

There are several ways to determine the 'nervous tendencies' of an animal, both in the field and in the squeeze chute arena. Just approaching one a little quickly, or looking them in the eye, or bending over to merely touch the ground can sometimes reveal crackpots that you don't want to have teach the other members of your herd their bad traits! If you find a cow that acts like your mother-in-law - - fore warned is fore armed!!

DOC HARRIS

 

[Angus In Texas]

The Angus association's preliminary Docility EPD will be released with the spring 2008 NCE. However, I think it will be like the heifer pregnancy EPD that came out with the last evaluation in that you can find the info by searching for it specifically but can't see the number on individual animals registration information.

As for the genestar marker. The test has not been made public for that particular gene yet. They only offer Quality Grade, Tenderness, and Feed Efficiency.

 

[jkwilson]

Normally you see EPDs added that address things that need improving within a breed. If a breed has an EPD for docility, you can be pretty sure that this is a trait that the breed association wants to improve in that breed.

 

[dun]

Normally you see EPDs added that address things that need improving within a breed. If a breed has an EPD for docility, you can be pretty sure that this is a trait that the breed association wants to improve in that breed.

That's always been my thoughts on the docility EPD.

 

[Angus In Texas]

I don't see a problem with docility in the Angus breed.... I see this EPD as just another piece of information to use in the decision making process. The Angus Association historically has been a leader in EPD development so that Angus customers have as much information as they need to make a well informed purchasing decision.

 

[dun]

If a breed is going to throw in more EPDs, why not make them relevant? Why not tenderness, feed efficiency, etc. Next someone will be coming up with length of tail switch just so they can have more EPDs then someone else.

 

[MikeC]

If a breed is going to throw in more EPDs, why not make them relevant? Why not tenderness, feed efficiency, etc. Next someone will be coming up with length of tail switch just so they can have more EPDs then someone else.

I agree wholeheartedly Dun. :roll:

The collection of this data alone makes me wary.

How do you measure disposition with any degree of accuracy and consistency across the board?

 

[dun]

How do you measure disposition with any degree of accuracy and consistency across the board?

One of the feedlots that buys our calves rates them by the speed the exit the chute. They use a radar/laser or something to measure they're speed to cover 10 feet. Some of the calves we worked on tuesday were so slow you use a sundial to measure their speed.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

If a breed is going to throw in more EPDs, why not make them relevant? Why not tenderness, feed efficiency, etc. Next someone will be coming up with length of tail switch just so they can have more EPDs then someone else.

:lol: Tail switch length. :lol:

How do you measure disposition with any degree of accuracy and consistency across the board?

That is kind of where I was going with this. I know somebody somewhere listed some specifics in more "scientific" language than me but they described an animals reactions in a chute for example as a person approached closer. Something like "calm, alert, attempted avoidance, attack, and total flip out" and gave it a score like body score. I can't remember where I read it, maybe something from Temple Grandin but not sure.

Like DOC said, a critter may be all you want on looks and paper but if it wants to kill you or fly over the fence ... well better pass on it.

 

[dun]

That is kind of where I was going with this. I know somebody somewhere listed some specifics in more "scientific" language than me but they described an animals reactions in a chute for example as a person approached closer. Something like "calm, alert, attempted avoidance, attack, and total flip out" and gave it a score like body score. I can't remember where I read it, maybe something from Temple Grandin but not sure.

Like DOC said, a critter may be all you want on looks and paper but if it wants to kill you or fly over the fence ... well better pass on it.

We would get back a disposition score, that isn;t what they called it but that was the jist of it, along with all of the carcass and feed data. I'm too lazy to search back through all of the fiels to find it.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

We would get back a disposition score, that isn;t what they called it but that was the jist of it, along with all of the carcass and feed data. I'm too lazy to search back through all of the fiels to find it.

Prolly too busy measuring tail switches. :roll: :lol:

 

[dun]

We would get back a disposition score, that isn;t what they called it but that was the jist of it, along with all of the carcass and feed data. I'm too lazy to search back through all of the fiels to find it.

Prolly too busy measuring tail switches. :roll: :lol:

And dew claw length. I think there is a real need for an EPD for that for cattle to navigate better in the mountains.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

We would get back a disposition score, that isn;t what they called it but that was the jist of it, along with all of the carcass and feed data. I'm too lazy to search back through all of the fiels to find it.

Prolly too busy measuring tail switches. :roll: :lol:

And dew claw length. I think there is a real need for an EPD for that for cattle to navigate better in the mountains.

Better YET! I propose an EPD for Dental Prolongation - geared to maintaining molar tooth life expectancy, thereby extending the number of years that a good producer can remain in the cow herd and continue producing calves by being a prolific eater and drinker of cold water without painful reactions due to tooth decay and becoming a 'smooth mouth'! It would be labeled "DP EPD"! Try to refute the reliability and integrity of THAT reasonable "functional" trait!" Expected Progeny Difference! The beef profession should start to think pragmatically rather than just "cutsie".

DOC HARRIS

 

[Angus In Texas]

DOC,

There is an Angus ranch that has done some research on longevity and publish an "EPD" of their own in their sale catalogs but I can't remember the name of the operation.