Dry aging question

[dun]

I guess I've been cooking them wrong all these years. Pull them out of the frig, leave them sit for a few mintues, slap them on the grill for 2 minutes (as hot as it will get), flip them for a minute and a half, slide them on a plate and enjoy.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

I guess I've been cooking them wrong all these years. Pull them out of the frig, leave them sit for a few mintues, slap them on the grill for 2 minutes (as hot as it will get), flip them for a minute and a half, slide them on a plate and enjoy.

Heck I'll cook a frozen steak if it isn't too thick. Don't try that with chicken, though.

 

[3waycross]

I was just cautioning him to be careful about who did the aging process. I am not saying that the process in inherently bad or that most facilities do not perform it correctly. Like I said I dont have experience aging beef but working with and studying bacteria is part of my job. I did not mean to imply that botulism would result. It just happened to be the first anaerobic bacteria that popped into my head that I thought he might recognize, but trust me there is a big list and some will grow nicely in the cold, protein rich environment such as that of a cryovac bag. My point was, putting something in cryovac does not inhibit all bacteria. The bacteria can come from anywhere and they can persist and grow in even near freezing temperatures. A butcher with dirty hands, an unclean surface, etc. I was not trying to step on your toes but being a little cautious is never a bad thing. Are you telling me that with all your experience with cryovac aging that you have never had a bad batch? Are they tested for contamination at any point?

As far as cooking a steak, thanks for the input but I already make a mean steak. It does seem that you agree with getting rid of some of the extra moisture though. Even with thawing them slowly in the refrigerator (which I do) I still think there is too much moisture in them. The excess moisture sizzles out and causes steam which prevents the steak from searing properly before the inside is overly done (medium is pushing overdone in my book). The onions and dried herbs absorb this while giving their flavor to the steak. May seem different but it works great for me. Works great on a roast that you want to leave medium rare also (like a rib roast, Oh Yeah!!).

Cook your steaks the way you like, what matters is does it work for you.

As far as the cyrovac is concerned;

NO I HAVE NEVER SEEN ONE SPOIL THAT DIDN'T HAVE A LEAK!

Sorry about all the caps. but it's true. Like I said some cuts need to go out to 40-45days on the age with no ill effects. That's not to say they don't stink when opened they just don't spoil. Now having said all that of course if you leave it in the cryovac long enough it will spoil, but anything within reason should work OK

Keep in mind it's been around a long time if it didn't work they wouldn't use it.

It's a whole lot safer than dry age of any kind, that's for sure!

 

[3waycross]

I guess I've been cooking them wrong all these years. Pull them out of the frig, leave them sit for a few mintues, slap them on the grill for 2 minutes (as hot as it will get), flip them for a minute and a half, slide them on a plate and enjoy.

That's pretty much what I said. What I was trying to get across is to freeze them fast and thaw them slow. If not you lose a lot of the moisture in the meat and I have never heard anyone say let's go back to such and such steakhouse their steaks are nice and DRY. They want them Juicy., Flavorful , and Tender. Don't you?

 

[SCRUBS620]

I was not even talking about cryovac meat when I made the comment about the moisture and I did not say I liked them dry. Alot of what is perceived as dryness is actually meat that is overdone. I said that too much moisture is not a good thing and I do think the flavor is off when there is too much moisture. Now alot of the meat you see at large super markets say "Up to 10% solution added"; like they are doing me a favor. Its like trying to brown a wet sponge. I am not trying to undermine your experience; glad to know that you dont have more go bad. To me a piece of meat that has been soaking in bloody juice for a couple of weeks is not appetizing but that is just my opinion.

Honestly (I am not attacking you), have you ever cultured a cryovac bag after the meat has aged? I am just curious. There is bacteria in and on everything. The things to consider are what type and how much. You also mentioned the shortloin where the T-bone comes from are not suitable. Is that because of the bones poking through or because it is more likely to be contaminated when it is harvested?

 

[Hippie Rancher]

Now alot of the meat you see at large super markets say "Up to 10% solution added";

not any fresh beef that I know of. Now if you want to talk about what implanting causes, I might be persuaded to somewhat agree with you on the too-much moisture issue.

 

[SCRUBS620]

Now alot of the meat you see at large super markets say "Up to 10% solution added";

not any fresh beef that I know of. Now if you want to talk about what implanting causes, I might be persuaded to somewhat agree with you on the too-much moisture issue.

It is labeled as such around here (not at all the grocery stores mainly just the mega marts). It is usually the prepackaged stuff from the major distributors (I am not talking about cryovac meat so dont jump on me here) They pump it full of a solution because they say it makes the meat moister. I think they just get to add 10% weight to their package. Explain if you would about what implanting causes.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

Now if you want to talk about what implanting causes, I might be persuaded to somewhat agree with you on the too-much moisture issue.

Explain if you would about what implanting causes.

I believe it causes water weight gain just like a lot of human females experience due to hormonally driven monthly cycles. Marbeling - that is to say FAT in the muscle tissue is what makes a really great steak JUICY. Now I could be wrong, but growth hormones tend to work on muscle tissue, not fat and that is why I believe it is more water gain than marbeling that is the "benefit" of implanting.

 

[3waycross]

I was not even talking about cryovac meat when I made the comment about the moisture and I did not say I liked them dry. Alot of what is perceived as dryness is actually meat that is overdone. I said that too much moisture is not a good thing and I do think the flavor is off when there is too much moisture. Now alot of the meat you see at large super markets say "Up to 10% solution added"; like they are doing me a favor. Its like trying to brown a wet sponge. I am not trying to undermine your experience; glad to know that you dont have more go bad. To me a piece of meat that has been soaking in bloody juice for a couple of weeks is not appetizing but that is just my opinion.

Honestly (I am not attacking you), have you ever cultured a cryovac bag after the meat has aged? I am just curious. There is bacteria in and on everything. The things to consider are what type and how much. You also mentioned the shortloin where the T-bone comes from are not suitable. Is that because of the bones poking through or because it is more likely to be contaminated when it is harvested?[/quot


The reason I don't want short loins aged that way is from cutting the bone, seems to make them more dangerous. That's just me talkin no empiracal data on that theory.

It might be interesting to culture the cyrovac while the meat is in it. See what grows in there. If that makes sense

 

[dcara]

Remember they are inspected by the USDA or they are outlaws. If you or anybody else is taking their meat to an outlaw packer you get what you paid for a cheap deal, and no recourse if things go wrong.

Not sure I understand your definition of "outlaw". There are alot of processors that are not inspected by the USDA. However, they are inspected by the State. In fact they have to be inspected by the State in order to operate. There-in lies your recourse. I may be wrong, but I think USDA inspection is only required if your meat crosses state lines after processing.

 

[SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE]

Remember they are inspected by the USDA or they are outlaws. If you or anybody else is taking their meat to an outlaw packer you get what you paid for a cheap deal, and no recourse if things go wrong.

Not sure I understand your definition of "outlaw". There are alot of processors that are not inspected by the USDA. However, they are inspected by the State. In fact they have to be inspected by the State in order to operate. There-in lies your recourse. I may be wrong, but I think USDA inspection is only required if your meat crosses state lines after processing.

It is my understanding, someone may correct me if I am wrong, the plant must be USDA inspected if you sell meat to the public.It does not have to be for your own use. I would be interested in recommendations by 3way for "finishing" a beef to be sold by the halves to individuals that are used to getting their beef at "kroger" and what kind of butcher to look for,questions to ask,etc., for people to get beef they are used to.If someone buys a 1/2 beef it would be quite an expense to try "something new" as far as beef taste is concerned.

 

[IL Rancher]

Depends on the state.. Illinois for example has three levels of inspection. One is USDA. These are the typical Tyson plants and a few others. Than there is the State level 1 (Might be A) which has an inspector present on kill day to condemn any animals or organs that need condemening. The rules are basically the same as a USDA plant except some infrastructure needs (I think it is no sepearte office or bathroom for inspectors and a maybe celing height. I knew all the dfferences a few years back but not so much anymore. Most of our lockers are this level and they will kill and process animals that are than sold to their customers by the cut out of their freezers... Others do not have the store front.

Last but not least there is the custom level inspection which is a yearly inspection of a place. This meat is all stamped not for retail and can not be sold by the cut. That being said, you could sell the animal alive to someone and than take it to one of those plants for processing but we really don't have many of those places left anymore that I would want to take an animal to.

Other states do not have the State inspected level, I believe Michigan is one of those and I am sure there are others.

 

[Bluestem]

I stuck my foot in my mouth once already on this thread.
The new farm bill eases restrictions on state inspected beef. Following new guidelines state inspected beef may be sold to neighboring states. The final version is yet to be completed. And may not make it through the bill process. It was an item which has not made it through several past bills.
At this time I believe, in Texas, state inspected beef can be sold to the public.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

It is my understanding, someone may correct me if I am wrong,

Here in AZ there are smaller state inspected facilities and USDA as well. My understanding is the meat can't cross state lines.

 

[dcara]

Great info folks. Thanks. I'll have to keep an eye on the progress of the new farm bill. I see updates on it in Drovers from time to time.

 

[Aero]

I always thought that "gamey" flavor (BEEF flavor is what I would call it) is something you wanted and was one of the reasons for hanging???

exactly. i think 3waycross was a poultry salesman in a different life. :lol:

 

[Aero]

How else do you explain the popularity of CAB,1855,Sterling Silver, and other premimum beef programs which are all based on marbling as the first criteria.

marketing

 

[3waycross]

I always thought that "gamey" flavor (BEEF flavor is what I would call it) is something you wanted and was one of the reasons for hanging???

exactly. i think 3waycross was a poultry salesman in a different life. :lol:

Of course I also sell poultry, how could I work for the largest foodservice company in the world and only sell beef. That BEEF flavor you are talking about here does not sell to more than a couple percent of the population if that. So, why would anyone try to produce it on any kind of large scale. My competitor who I quoted earlier told me he used to age some shortloins that way, for a long time, and ended up eating it all himself because even his own family didn't like a flavor profile that was that BEEFY.

Another thought here is this, as I stated earlier what I consider dry age, and what has been called dry age here are not the same thing. Home dry age and or small processor dry age are in fact whole or split carcass hanging age with very little consideration given to atmospheric conditions other than is it cold enough not to ROT before we cut it up.

What I am calling dry age is broken into primal cuts and aged under strictly controlled conditions for heat , humidity, and with the use of bacteriostatic lights. for the restuarant trade and not for home consumption.

Aero; I read a lot of info here and try to respect the knowledge of people that know more than I do about the production end of the cattle business. One thing I don't do is call people names because I don't agree with them. So if callling me a "poultry salesman " makes you feel better, have at it, but if you are going to take me on regarding what happens to it after it becomes MEAT, bring your lunch.

 

[Aero]

Now alot of the meat you see at large super markets say "Up to 10% solution added";

not any fresh beef that I know of. Now if you want to talk about what implanting causes, I might be persuaded to somewhat agree with you on the too-much moisture issue.

Walmart adds beef broth to some of their cuts.

 

[3waycross]

How else do you explain the popularity of CAB,1855,Sterling Silver, and other premimum beef programs which are all based on marbling as the first criteria.

marketing

If I had said Hide color as a primary consideration you would be correct.

That's not what I said.

Therefore MARKETING , is incorrect.


In the case of all 3 premium programs I listed here if they don't Quality grade in the upper 2/3's of choice they don't go in the box.

Two of them CAB and Sterling Silver will accept lower yield grades. Than 1855 from Swift but all three have the same spec for marbling. Last time I looked MARBLING was a tangible and measurable, standard of the meat business.

So, Aero please explain how Marbling in beef, is now a marketing program. Do you really believe someone had to tell people that well marbled beef tasted better than that which is not. Or maybe the "National beef marbling association" has an add campaign that I haven't seen on TV yet.

Maybe what you should do is start a new Beef program.

Grassfed only
No Roll only.
Hung in the barn until it Rots.

Maybe the MARKETING slogan could be. "We know it's tough,we know it's dry, we know it tastes like venison, but if you don't like it we will sure send you some more". Or " Shoeleather , It's what's for dinner."