Drought Observations

[rocfarm]

Seems a

He stated an opinion, he didn't say he was going to build a university level class on that basis. Looking around and seeing things, taking to people from those areas, then forming an opinion doesn't require an exhaustive study supported by links and peer reviewed papers. I really don't need a link to tell me my barn roof gets wet when it rains, my grass grows better if we get rain, the grass in some parts of the country provide more nutrients and are of a better quality than other places, or if my hayfields do better after a year when we have snow, I just see it and believe it, and if someone tells me those things and they have experienced I tend to believe them. If you don't believe them then it's you that needs to provide the links and reports providing empirical data proving it's wrong

Seems a bit too emotional for me. Won't disagree that those with practical experience often get frustrated with the academics, but I like to try to put both together. There have been times when I have been shown that the cause/effect relationship wasn't as I had assumed from what I observed. And the academics saved my farm from the current drought.

I don't even mind wrong observations as long as I learn something. May we all improve our operations.

Hope everyone got some of the recent rains. Definitely put a spring in my step!

 

[rocfarm]

Welcome roc.
Yes Lots of lectures.
They provide information. Sometimes good, sometimes bad . You take that information and apply it and it can become knowledge. You apply it in different ways over a period of time and it becomes experience. One thing for sure. Anyone can Google a subject and post a link. We've got a few around here that think it qualifies them in some way.

I personally am a fan of Google scholar. Learned a bit about the controversy over continuous vs rotational grazing, weaning pounds per acre vs pounds per cow, C3 vs C4 grasses etc.

That combined with some practical advice the folks on this site and in my local area, including the NRCS have really improved my land and given me some well-conditioned cattle, so I'm a cup full kinda guy on all these resources. And most of the OSU/Sunup TV stuff is right on for an Oklahoma/Texas producer.

Don't really mind the links. I've been wrong a time or two. Might want to give them a bit of room to be less than right. But they might want to consider if what they are pushing is going to be an example of what NOT to do in the business. Hasn't been fun for me when I became that example.

 

[rocfarm]

good way to go broke listing to those people.

Don't know if that's the case. One of the NRCS folks in my area sold 50-60 steers at $204 cwt last year and sold his heifers on private treaty for a high price, too. And his inputs are low cause he doesn't feed hay…

 

[callmefence]

I personally am a fan of Google scholar. Learned a bit about the controversy over continuous vs rotational grazing, weaning pounds per acre vs pounds per cow, C3 vs C4 grasses etc.

That combined with some practical advice the folks on this site and in my local area, including the NRCS have really improved my land and given me some well-conditioned cattle, so I'm a cup full kinda guy on all these resources. And most of the OSU/Sunup TV stuff is right on for an Oklahoma/Texas producer.

Don't really mind the links. I've been wrong a time or two. Might want to give them a bit of room to be less than right. But they might want to consider if what they are pushing is going to be an example of what NOT to do in the business. Hasn't been fun for me when I became that example.

A tool in the box for sure I absolutely agree. I'm currently saving some articles for the winter months to go in the religion forum. But the ability to search,copy, and paste is only verification one knows how to use a smartphone. A 13 year old in a Austin apartment can easily achieve the same level of "expertise" .

Don't know if that's the case. One of the NRCS folks in my area sold 50-60 steers at $204 cwt last year and sold his heifers on private treaty for a high price, too. And his inputs are low cause he doesn't feed hay…

That would be what's called anecdotal.
It's in direct conflict with your support of research..

 

[TexasRancher]

TexRanch---Just out of curiosity, why did you haul them all the way to Decatur when there are plent of decent sale barns (like Athens) much closer?

I actually have the numbers right here at my desk...68 miles to Decatur and 45 miles to Athens...that's 23 extra miles each way. Reasoning: it's worth it to me as I did my research...after very careful customer reviews, cattle treatment, ownership and employee relations and sales stats...I prefer Decatur to Athens. Athens might be perfectly fine...but i always go with my gut feeling after reviewing the data collected. It, and God, never fails me.

 

[TexasRancher]

Thank you very much....now I know.
It explains alot

You're a trip CMF...LVR's got you right where he wants you and he'll crush you. Do not underestimate the powers of Lee.

 

[callmefence]

You're a trip CMF...LVR's got you right where he wants you and he'll crush you. Do not underestimate the powers of Lee.

He doesn't like me because I don't bow to the spirit in sky....not very christian of him..lol

 

[BC]

For those that question being able to stockpile bermuda or bahia, it can be done, Check out: http://forages.tamu.edu/PDF/SCS 2006 13 Stockpiling Bermudagrass.pdf

 

[TexasRancher]

TR> I would guess them to be spring 2020 calves, most likely implanted and destined for the packer from birth. Normally implanting would
preclude them from being breeding stock. They would have been consuming a little over 40 lbs of feed a day each assuming a 3% ration.
My relationship with the auction may be different from yours as I know grandad sent stock there over 60 years ago. They are into the 2nd and 3rd generation. I do not recall ever having an animal at the auction and not being there to represent it if needed. As far as I know we have done
that since 1800's. Until the hammer drops that animal is yours and and represents what you are producing and is a symbol of your reputation
as a producer. Now I don't haul anymore but a friend and neighbor does that for me and is on cattle feeder board.

You're right anyone can haul a critter to the sale barn but it may not turn out well if that animal is not yours! No I do not perceive Red or
Black as having an advantage at this stage. Quality sells, at least it did the other day. I run Red Angus on the top side and have been for
the past 20 years but I like quality of any color. I don't know to what extent you are involved with the engineering or your time constraints
but if you have time to get acquainted with the auctioneers it can be time well invested. Now I will share something personal, I would much
rather pick guitar than push cattle up a chute or tag newborns. I rate them about equal at the end of the day. LVR

>LVR Those are good points you bring up. I know I should be more involved with my cattle sales until that hammer strikes. Time, travel, and inconvenience are the easy excuses. At almost 60, first generation cattle producer, I feel I'm late to the cattle party… it's tough to seed and build those relationships. I did a lot of basic cattle research in 2006 to 2009. When I arrived in 2020 I found the entire processes linked to cattle like something out of an 1880's to 1930's play book. People contained in all areas related to cattle...from cattle producers, cattle feed, hay producers, sales. Everything is so unhinged, unmapped, without any posi-connections. Feed lots, processors & packing have better controls that's probably why they can squeeze and squash the cattle producer's profits.

In my own cattle bubble, I'm having a great time…Big win got my matching Farm Truck and Farm Trailer License Plates. Almost 3 years in and I'm almost self-sufficient with the cattle care and needs. I've found the best sales barn in the area, endless clean free water…happy cattle.

Only one thing eludes me after 3 years…finding the "right" hay producer relationship. I'm considering a flatbed trailer as my next farm purchase. Appears going directly into the hay producer's fields during harvesting…is the only relationship available. Fancy being wealthy and my farm being divinely structured to "give-back" to society…I figured the hay producers would come bring me loads of hay directly to my ranch for a named price and princely tip. God has something in store for me….if it's not a wonderful hay producing person/family then maybe it's a flatbed trailer. Maybe God wants me to learn a new technique to carry the cattle over the winter with processed forage grains. Afterwards I can document my results for other cattle producers with hay issues.

There always has to be a missing element on our divine journey….else it would be too easy…and we might miss the hardship and lack appreciation. I'm grateful for my cattle journey…I AM working and doing my absolute best for them. Where I falter may God assist me and show me the light and the way. Have a great day Lee, enjoy the strings and cattle.

 

[TexasRancher]

He doesn't like me because I don't bow to the spirit in sky....not very christian of him..lol

Yeah, but I've seen you stroke and poke at the fire more than once...not just with LVR.

 

[callmefence]

Yeah, but I've seen you stroke and poke at the fire more than once...not just with LVR.

Usually in fun, sometimes in defense.

One thing I don't do is try to change someones faith. I expect the same.

 

[rocfarm]

A tool in the box for sure I absolutely agree. I'm currently saving some articles for the winter months to go in the religion forum. But the ability to search,copy, and paste is only verification one knows how to use a smartphone. A 13 year old in a Austin apartment can easily achieve the same level of "expertise" .

That would be what's called anecdotal.
It's in direct conflict with your support of research..

Wish I could do a statistical study of the profitability of all the people who work there's operations. Bet they usually have the inside track on profitability. And many to most of them have been able to hold onto or even expand their family's holdings. That wouldn't be anecdotal. But I'll stick to hobby farming and my day job for now.

 

[Dave]

Don't know if that's the case. One of the NRCS folks in my area sold 50-60 steers at $204 cwt last year and sold his heifers on private treaty for a high price, too. And his inputs are low cause he doesn't feed hay…

With 20+ years of working for a conservation district I got to/had to work directly with a lot of NRCS people. My opinion is there are a few good ones. But they are out numbered by one that if you gave them the keys to the ranch free and clear they would lose it in 3 years.
I went to a workshop some years ago. One of the speakers was a retired extension agent from Minnesota. He said that after he retired he went back to look at the farms he had worked with. All of the ones who followed his advise were out of business. He said it was a pretty sobering realization. To me it said something about listening to academics who have no skin in the game.

 

[callmefence]

Wish I could do a statistical study of the profitability of all the people who work there's operations. Bet they usually have the inside track on profitability. And many to most of them have been able to hold onto or even expand their family's holdings. That wouldn't be anecdotal. But I'll stick to hobby farming and my day job for now.

I do a fair amount of work for them.
I've got a job scheduled in February on the 44 at Cameron.
A pretty fair amount of those guys don't farm or ranch at all. They just work at a government job. Your results may differ

 

[rocfarm]

With 20+ years of working for a conservation district I got to/had to work directly with a lot of NRCS people. My opinion is there are a few good ones. But they are out numbered by one that if you gave them the keys to the ranch free and clear they would lose it in 3 years.
I went to a workshop some years ago. One of the speakers was a retired extension agent from Minnesota. He said that after he retired he went back to look at the farms he had worked with. All of the ones who followed his advise were out of business. He said it was a pretty sobering realization. To me it said something about listening to academics who have no skin in the game.

Now I really want to see that study. Also, what does out of business mean? Seen plenty of people in my home town limp along on cattle for years then become well off or even wealthy when they sold the land. Happened a lot in my college town, too.

 

[bird dog]

In our area Roc and probably in most areas, if you are not considering the value increase in your property, it is impossible to make any money for the small timer without a bunch of lease land. You darn sure can't buy land and expect it to be profitable on cattle and hunting fees alone.

Unless you have family land, realistically you are in the real estate business and cattle are just the part of that that keep your taxes in check and a reason to improve the property.

You have to play the long game. In the last few years, its been easy. Land has increased in value by a large amount. Before that we went 10 or so years with the normal 5% +/- increase per year. Like everything, you make money when you buy, not when you sell.

 

[Dave]

Now I really want to see that study. Also, what does out of business mean? Seen plenty of people in my home town limp along on cattle for years then become well off or even wealthy when they sold the land. Happened a lot in my college town, too.

I took the out of business to mean they went broke. Been long enough ago I don't remember the name of the workshop. Certainly not the speaker. Lots of rancher who are cash poor and asset rich. All of my neighbors get by. They don't exactly drive new vehicles. If they sold land, cattle, and equipment they would be multi millionaires overnight.
I always like to listen to or read what Jim Gerrish has to say. While he was working for the University of Missouri and writing for the Stockman Grass Farmer he was running about 150 head of mother cows of his own. So while running experiments and studies he was also doing things for real on his own place. He does pop up here of CT from time to time. That is interesting because most have would no idea who he is because he doesn't post using his name.

 

[rocfarm]

For those that question being able to stockpile bermuda or bahia, it can be done, Check out: http://forages.tamu.edu/PDF/SCS 2006 13 Stockpiling Bermudagrass.pdf

Looks too expensive, especially the fertilizer part.

I took the out of business to mean they went broke. Been long enough ago I don't remember the name of the workshop. Certainly not the speaker. Lots of rancher who are cash poor and asset rich. All of my neighbors get by. They don't exactly drive new vehicles. If they sold land, cattle, and equipment they would be multi millionaires overnight.
I always like to listen to or read what Jim Gerrish has to say. While he was working for the University of Missouri and writing for the Stockman Grass Farmer he was running about 150 head of mother cows of his own. So while running experiments and studies he was also doing things for real on his own place. He does pop up here of CT from time to time. That is interesting because most have would no idea who he is because he doesn't post using his name.

Not sure Missouri comparisons are fair. Southern Missouri seems to be a rancher's paradise. Hard to go broke if you've got the rainfall and clover, fescue, and native grasses on the likes of Greg Judy's farm. Watched him turn over an old manure pat just full of worms. I completely rested my place for two years, we had great rainfall, and kept it under stocked. Still never seen meaningful worm numbers in my soil. And last summer it was 107F when I began my summer work. Lost 8 lbs in 3 weeks. And when I did dirt work, didn't see a worm at all, even down to 10 inches deep.

Can't remember if it was back in 2014 or 15, but I took a 14" bottom plow to a 1/3 acre patch that I wanted to plant plum trees in. Down 14 inches it was dusty dry, in clay loam! And no soil life.

Hope the north/eastern boys appreciate what you've got. Seems to be easier to lose money in a place like central Texas with the unpredictable rainfall, lower soil organic matter, and the need to fertilize and plant oats each winter if you really want green grazing in the winter.

 

[b.duke]

Don't know if that's the case. One of the NRCS folks in my area sold 50-60 steers at $204 cwt last year and sold his heifers on private treaty for a high price, too. And his inputs are low cause he doesn't feed hay…

i just took their grazing class and it had some useful things, especially about fence and water. a lot of things they had would break a regular guy trying to make it. I farm full time and starting with nothing and no farm family. I know how to profit. not feeding hay is not the way to go.

 

[chaded]

i'm not sure.. the grass would never grow. maybe you guys get more sun up that way. we just never got any sun until almost june.

Where did you live at in Ohio that didn't get sun until June and grass wouldn't grow?

This is in December in Ohio….