Drought Observations

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are you near the river? about 30 minutes north its a different ball game. you guys get more sun no doubt.

I am now but only for the past 6 years. I grew up and lived most of my life in central ohio 3 hours north and lived clear in the upper northeast corner of Ohio for 6 years as well. I have never in my life heard anyone describe Ohio as cloudy and where grass won't grow. Lol.

I could graze pretty close to how I am here where I grew up a few hours north. Some years you might shave a little grazing time off. Upper northeast corner would be hit or miss but not because the sun doesn't shine but because there is a lot more snow.
 
Talking about the difference in feeding cattle for one month in the south as opposed to feeding 4-6 months in the north... costs of hay, different things like that. Both @Silver and @gcreekrch are about as far north of any of our "members here... they both make hay ....A LOT OF HAY..... and run their cattle on huge numbers of acres.... and the looks of their calves would make my mouth water any day of the week... Their grazing season is about 5 months +/- I would say... so I think that the differences are documented. They also run mostly red cattle.... so the whole "black is better" is a BS bunch of crap that is a marketing tool... and a very well done marketing strategy. @kenny thomas is right... half brothers of red and black would bring in the $.20 to .40 cents difference every single time here.

You are also looking at different types of soil, and the fact that every farmer I have ever known up in the new england states was always wanting a good snow cover in the winter so that the small amounts of nitrogen that is in the snow will seep into the ground. It was called the poor man's fertilizer for a reason.
 
How long I have to feed depends on the snow. The last couple years I didn't have to start feeding until just before Christmas. I like to give the grass a chance to green up before I go back out on the desert; we usually wait until the first of June. I figure enough hay to feed for seven months, but hope I don't have to feed that long. A few years ago I almost sold to much hay, and that would have put me short. I would rather have hay left over for the next year than run out.
 
Snow is also our insulation that protects alfalfa from winterkill.
I don't know if it's relevant but up here 6" is a lot of top soil, and 16" is about average moisture and most of that is snow. But combined with ridiculous amounts of daylight for a few months it works well for one or two cuts of hay.
 
Our climate and soils don't grow alfalfa at all. Our replacement is birdsfoot trefoil. Our average rainfall is something like 33 inches and snowfall is 200+ inches. One cut of hay is all we get but its usually a dandy. Long days, abundant rainfall, and moderate temps grow a lot of grass in a hurry.

Even last year in our worst drought in 100 years we still made a 60% hay crop and I grazed from June thru early December.
 
So maybe just manage around what you have and hope it improves bit by bit with proper grazing rotation.
Yes, the forage that wants to grow on your farm is usually the cheapest per acre.

The issue for a grazer is how long does that low input forage last? Here it is cool season sod grasses that only grow well for a couple months, and do not stockpile... So, then you are comparing the cost of stored feed to the cost of introduced forage plants. Both are expensive for a beef cow.

The root issue may be that you have the wrong class of livestock for your farm.
 
Our climate and soils don't grow alfalfa at all. Our replacement is birdsfoot trefoil. Our average rainfall is something like 33 inches and snowfall is 200+ inches. One cut of hay is all we get but its usually a dandy. Long days, abundant rainfall, and moderate temps grow a lot of grass in a hurry.
I am sure you could grow branch root alfalfa if you purchased enough inputs. May just not be a good idea.

How long do your self seeding birdfoot stands last? What happens if you graze them in the fall?
 
Guys have tried various kinds of alfalfa and even with decent input it just doesn't do well. Having cool summers and potentially frost in June, July,, and August really don't help at all.

Some of my best stands of trefoil haven't been reseeded in 10+ years (it seems to go in cycles a few thick years followed by a couple thin years). After a hard frost grazing doesn't have much effect on the stand the following year.
 
Yes, the forage that wants to grow on your farm is usually the cheapest per acre.

The issue for a grazer is how long does that low input forage last? Here it is cool season sod grasses that only grow well for a couple months, and do not stockpile... So, then you are comparing the cost of stored feed to the cost of introduced forage plants. Both are expensive for a beef cow.

The root issue may be that you have the wrong class of livestock for your farm.

I was at an auction last and saw them selling 1400Lb to 1600lb cows. A bull came through at 2000lbs. All I could think was, "Those cattle would never do well on my place. Their feed and forage inputs are too high." But, if the seller was on the other side of I35 and grew his own corn and had good clover and Tifton bermuda, I could see it being OK.

For central and west Texas, I'd say the cheapest keepers are probably the 1000lb cows that are moderate milkers. If you want the easiest keepers, probably go with corrientes.

But in a normal year angus cattle seem to do OK if they aren't too big and you have lots of shade on your place.

Another consideration is whether or not the cattle are slick-hided enough to do ok in the Texas heat. I saw a lot of cattle that were still looking fuzzy/thick-skinned in August. Would definitely stay away from that here. They need to be heat tolerant if they are going to have a good ADG in my opinion. Some people say go red because they are more heat tolerant, but I'm buying a black bull because the market insists.

Wish all y'all good grazing this coming spring!
 
Guys have tried various kinds of alfalfa and even with decent input it just doesn't do well. Having cool summers and potentially frost in June, July,, and August really don't help at all.

Some of my best stands of trefoil haven't been reseeded in 10+ years (it seems to go in cycles a few thick years followed by a couple thin years). After a hard frost grazing doesn't have much effect on the stand the following year.
Yup. If whatever you are grazing is dormant, grazing pretty close has no effect on the plant during spring green up. Not sure if keeping a mat on the ground helps with summer growth, but some people even advise to take it real close during the winter to ensure as much sunlight hits the new stuff in the spring.

I have made the mistake of leaving too much cover over til spring, but then again, the wildlife appreciated it. Got lots of cottontails running around this year!
 
Here there is hundreds of thousands of acres of irrigated farm land. A popular rotation is potatoes, wheat, and alfalfa. Thus a lot of alfalfa for sale. Mostly in 3x4x8 big squares. There are semi loads going up and down the highway all the time. Depending on the weather the cows stay in the hills grazing until sometime in December. It is roughly the middle of April turn out in the spring. Our little river irrigates about 30,000 acres. It is all hay or pasture, mostly grass hay. One cutting. There is some alfalfa grown. to the lower end we get 3 cuttings. Those up stream by the dam are a lot higher and only get 2 cuttings. My irrigated ground we get one cutting of grass hay. About 2.5-3 tons per acre. They graze off the regrowth in the fall. This year the regrowth supplied grazing for 3 500 pound weaned calves per acre for 2.5 months.
 
Talking about the difference in feeding cattle for one month in the south as opposed to feeding 4-6 months in the north... costs of hay, different things like that. Both @Silver and @gcreekrch are about as far north of any of our "members here... they both make hay ....A LOT OF HAY..... and run their cattle on huge numbers of acres.... and the looks of their calves would make my mouth water any day of the week... Their grazing season is about 5 months +/- I would say... so I think that the differences are documented. They also run mostly red cattle.... so the whole "black is better" is a BS bunch of crap that is a marketing tool... and a very well done marketing strategy. @kenny thomas is right... half brothers of red and black would bring in the $.20 to .40 cents difference every single time here.

You are also looking at different types of soil, and the fact that every farmer I have ever known up in the new england states was always wanting a good snow cover in the winter so that the small amounts of nitrogen that is in the snow will seep into the ground. It was called the poor man's fertilizer for a reason.
Most years we can get 7 months. We have no early spring grass but as long as conditions are right we can go late in winter.
 
Really? I took mine to Decatur, no tags, no brand. They just put a sticker on them and gave me a receipt. A couple of days later I received a check by mail.
Decatur runs a very efficient operation, last week over 2100 head so they have to be. They do have special sales I believe for registered stock, bred heifer, select stock. I have friends who use these sales, mostly at gville though. I would recommend contacting the sale barn for these if you have better stock
 
Please Read up the thread...I mentioned what i had expected. I come from the engineering world...where documentation and specific details are required...appears there are none with cattle sales.
Yes completely different world. I'd compare more to used car sales. Buyer be ware and you won't get a cowfax
 
I actually have the numbers right here at my desk...68 miles to Decatur and 45 miles to Athens...that's 23 extra miles each way. Reasoning: it's worth it to me as I did my research...after very careful customer reviews, cattle treatment, ownership and employee relations and sales stats...I prefer Decatur to Athens. Athens might be perfectly fine...but i always go with my gut feeling after reviewing the data collected. It, and God, never fails me.
No info on Athens. I used to use Decatur but ventured out to overbrook (closed now) and waurika. Seems like $15-20 per head more profit for 15 more miles at waurika. Purchasing at Decatur is good as long as you're careful to watch for lh mixed in
 
Some of my best stands of trefoil haven't been reseeded in 10+ years (it seems to go in cycles a few thick years followed by a couple thin years).
I have tried a little BFT in some grazing mixes, but it gets grazed out in a MIG system. I don't think it usually is able to set seed and regenerate. The only place it persists in right under the hot wire.

What is in the BFT hay mix you plant?
 

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