Dr Oz didn't speak well of grain fed beef today

[TexasBred]

Wait until he starts on "Pork". You do know he is a smooth shaved "Muslim"??????

His operation was also subsidized by with your tax dollars from the Tobacco Lawsuit. I was told he got $5M.

And got his start compliments of Oprah Winfrey, dba Harpo Productions.

 

[wbvs58]

Where did he get the "Oz" from? Hope he has nothing to do with Australia.

Ken

 

[Jogeephus]

Where did he get the "Oz" from? Hope he has nothing to do with Australia.

Ken

I don't know but if he is one of your guys will you take him back? :lol2:

 

[wbvs58]

Where did he get the "Oz" from? Hope he has nothing to do with Australia.

Ken

I don't know but if he is one of your guys will you take him back? :lol2:

No, we don't take our terrorist fighters back.

Ken

 

[Jogeephus]

We don't either. We just apologize, give them guns and money them and send them back to their homeland.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

Wait until he starts on "Pork". You do know he is a smooth shaved "Muslim"??????

What I read said he claimed to be a Muslim, but that he also followed some guy that was into mysticism and trances somehow sprinkled in with a little "Christianity" and that he was mostly into self meditation where he could seperate the real from the unreal.

That sounds more like he might be a member of Jo's underground unicorn fart sniffing cult. I bet they use certified organic herbs to help separate the real from the unreal.

 

[bball]

Wait until he starts on "Pork". You do know he is a smooth shaved "Muslim"??????

What I read said he claimed to be a Muslim, but that he also followed some guy that was into mysticism and trances somehow sprinkled in with a little "Christianity" and that he was mostly into self meditation where he could seperate the real from the unreal.

That sounds more like he might be a member of Jo's underground unicorn fart sniffing cult. I bet they use certified organic herbs to help separate the real from the unreal.

I been told mushrooms work much better for making the separation.... :hide:

 

[TexasBred]

Where did he get the "Oz" from? Hope he has nothing to do with Australia.

Ken

His dad gave it to him. His complete name is Mehmet Oz. Probably got Mohammed and a a few other arabic names in there as well but doesn't use them for obvious reasons.

 

[djinwa]

Why are you grass farmers against more people eating grass-fed beef?

As for accuracy, yes there are factual errors, but then we all benefit from shady marketing such as CAB or whatever.

Where is it written that in marketing you cannot knock your competition? Seen any Ford/Chevy commercials? Why so sensitive?

As for pork, as monogastrics, they can handle corn. Cattle cannot in the doses used. That is undeniable, and that fact is becoming more widely known. There is no way to avoid the word getting out, unless you think personal attacks and distraction will work. Don't see what muslims have to do with the subject.

The feedlot system intentionally makes cattle sick, which increases the need for antibiotics. From both diet and stress. Nobody sees an ethics problem here?

As my brother said while working in a feedlot, to be a real cattleman, you need a dead pile.

I recall years ago reading this article from Feedlot Magazine about liver abscesses in feedlot cattle. Studies show abscess rates up to 40%, but with use of antibiotics, these veterinarians' goal is to keep it down to 15%. They were worried about antibiotics being banned and would then have to change practices. Anyway, consider a success if only 15% of cattle have abscesses?
http://feedlotmagazine.com/archive/arch ... ticle.html

So the whole system is designed to make animals sick, and depend on antibiotics, and we can't see why consumers have a problem? We can't see why some producers might have a problem with it?

 

[Ky hills]

Why are you grass farmers against more people eating grass-fed beef?

As for accuracy, yes there are factual errors, but then we all benefit from shady marketing such as CAB or whatever.

Where is it written that in marketing you cannot knock your competition? Seen any Ford/Chevy commercials? Why so sensitive?

As for pork, as monogastrics, they can handle corn. Cattle cannot in the doses used. That is undeniable, and that fact is becoming more widely known. There is no way to avoid the word getting out, unless you think personal attacks and distraction will work. Don't see what muslims have to do with the subject.

The feedlot system intentionally makes cattle sick, which increases the need for antibiotics. From both diet and stress. Nobody sees an ethics problem here?

As my brother said while working in a feedlot, to be a real cattleman, you need a dead pile.

I recall years ago reading this article from Feedlot Magazine about liver abscesses in feedlot cattle. Studies show abscess rates up to 40%, but with use of antibiotics, these veterinarians' goal is to keep it down to 15%. They were worried about antibiotics being banned and would then have to change practices. Anyway, consider a success if only 15% of cattle have abscesses?
http://feedlotmagazine.com/archive/arch ... ticle.html

So the whole system is designed to make animals sick, and depend on antibiotics, and we can't see why consumers have a problem? We can't see why some producers might have a problem with it?

I am personally not opposed to folks eating grass fed beef, to each his own. My issue with the negative advertising towards grain fed is that the way I see it some folks with an anti meat agenda can use that as a Trojan horse to further their goals, thus affecting all segments of producers.
Most folks outside of the agriculture community probably don't realize that most beef cattle are on grass for most of their lives.
I am pretty sure there isn't enough land to grass finish enough cattle to supply our demand.
There will always be losses and issues, in any type of animal agriculture, and you and I and most everyone else no doubt does everything we can to prevent it and take the best possible care of our animals.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

The feedlot system intentionally makes cattle sick, which increases the need for antibiotics. From both diet and stress. Nobody sees an ethics problem here?

As my brother said while working in a feedlot, to be a real cattleman, you need a dead pile.

I recall years ago reading this article from Feedlot Magazine about liver abscesses in feedlot cattle. Studies show abscess rates up to 40%, but with use of antibiotics, these veterinarians' goal is to keep it down to 15%. They were worried about antibiotics being banned and would then have to change practices. Anyway, consider a success if only 15% of cattle have abscesses?
http://feedlotmagazine.com/archive/arch ... ticle.html

So the whole system is designed to make animals sick, and depend on antibiotics, and we can't see why consumers have a problem? We can't see why some producers might have a problem with it?

You're quite ill informed at best.

You have no basic idea of what a rumen does if you think cattle cannot process corn as a food source.

Feeding cattle is not designed to make them I'll, that is a completely fabricated statement that nullifies any good faith in any other statements you can or will make.

Nutritionists and veterinarians are employed at high costs to feedyards to create the best and most efficient means of turning feed into quality beef.

Please explain how a dead calf is making a profit? The ridiculousness of your assertions are amazing.

There is a ton of science utilized in the feedlot industry to promote health. Sick cattle don't gain and don't grade well. Handling of cattle has alot to do with stress and loss. Handling practices have changed dramatically in the last 20 to 30 years and improve all the time.

The far majority of feedlot sickness, however, is because insufficient backgrounding and preventative care was done up the line- that means the grass farmers.

Antibiotic use is expensive, there is no financial gain to using medications. Feedlots make money by feeding, not having a high sick rate. Ionophores are not for sick cattle and there is a ton of misinformation reported about them by people that have zero data to back up their claims.

You cannot produce enough grassfed beef to support the beef demand. It cannot and will not be done.

Your false statements are offensive to the industry. You should read real statistics instead of organic drivel based on wishes and dreams.


I expect this kind of crap when I go to some Yahoo article comments, but it really pisses me off to see it on a forum like this by a supposed producer. Our schools and industry have completely failed our society.

And for the record, I don't hate grassfed businesses. If it works for you great. But perpetuating bs because it helps your business model is very unethical and harmful!

 

[dun]

Sick cattle don't gain and don't grade well.

They also don;t make money for the feeder. When we retained ownership through the feedlot, we had one calf that got pneumonia and had to be treated and repulled. That one calf was just barely a break even while the others in that lot all made substantial profit.

 

[Rafter S]

I have to agree with CC and Dun. The idea that feedlots would intentionally make cattle sick makes no sense, and I find it difficult to believe that anyone over the age of 12 would buy into it.

 

[dun]

I find it difficult to believe that anyone over the age of 12 would buy into it.

Tell a lie often enough and it becomes the truth! That's straight from the gun banners bible.

 

[Kell-inKY]

I watched the videos linked to above, not sure what all the fuss is about, his "infographic" seemed pretty much right on the money about how most cattle are still raised on farms eating grass and then sold to feedlots. I did have a problem with the grass fed farmer, something about him just doesn't sit right? Maybe he is too self promotional, I don't know, just something. If someone would lay out what they specifically said that was untrue it might help me understand. Commercialfarmer, not trying to single you out or offend, but I had a couple of comments

Nutritionists and veterinarians are employed at high costs to feedyards to create the best and most efficient means of turning feed into quality beef.

Aren't these the same geniuses who ground up sick dead cows to feed to other cows? "Efficient" is the major gripe of people wanting more natural foods, those efficient tomatoes and apples at the store suck.

You cannot produce enough grassfed beef to support the beef demand. It cannot and will not be done.

I have an honest question, is this statement true? I've read it dozens of times but would like to know if there is something backing it up. Is there some kind of study or something, I know a whole lot of pastures have been turned into corn, is there some way to convert how finishing a steer on corn vs. the grass in that same field would compute?

One last thing, just because there are a few loudmouth anti-farming anti-meat activists making noise doesn't mean the vast majority of people don't support farmers. There is a huge back-to-farm movement or farm to fork, or farm to table, whatever you want to call it. All they want to do is buy directly from a farm, eliminate the processing, and the have healthy food for their family.

disclaimer: I do not watch "Dr. Oz" but know who he is, and I eat processed beef every day but plan on eating and selling as much grass-fed as I can produce.

 

[JMJ Farms]

You cannot produce enough grassfed beef to support the beef demand. It cannot and will not be done.

I have an honest question, is this statement true? I've read it dozens of times but would like to know if there is something backing it up. Is there some kind of study or something, I know a whole lot of pastures have been turned into corn, is there some way to convert how finishing a steer on corn vs. the grass in that same field would compute?

Remember how consumers reacted when beef prices got too high last year? That's nothing compared to what would happen if they had to buy grass fed only. You could meet the demand alright because most could not afford to buy it. Nothing wrong with it but it's a niche market.

 

[TexasBred]

Why are you grass farmers against more people eating grass-fed beef?

As for accuracy, yes there are factual errors, but then we all benefit from shady marketing such as CAB or whatever.

Where is it written that in marketing you cannot knock your competition? Seen any Ford/Chevy commercials? Why so sensitive?

As for pork, as monogastrics, they can handle corn. Cattle cannot in the doses used. That is undeniable, and that fact is becoming more widely known. There is no way to avoid the word getting out, unless you think personal attacks and distraction will work. Don't see what muslims have to do with the subject.

The feedlot system intentionally makes cattle sick, which increases the need for antibiotics. From both diet and stress. Nobody sees an ethics problem here?

As my brother said while working in a feedlot, to be a real cattleman, you need a dead pile.

I recall years ago reading this article from Feedlot Magazine about liver abscesses in feedlot cattle. Studies show abscess rates up to 40%, but with use of antibiotics, these veterinarians' goal is to keep it down to 15%. They were worried about antibiotics being banned and would then have to change practices. Anyway, consider a success if only 15% of cattle have abscesses?
http://feedlotmagazine.com/archive/arch ... ticle.html

So the whole system is designed to make animals sick, and depend on antibiotics, and we can't see why consumers have a problem? We can't see why some producers might have a problem with it?

Stupid woke up again. How do you know when to give antibiotics to a cattle with liver abscess?? There are no outward symptoms? A well balanced diet will take care of any "potential problems". Acidosis and foot rot are the two biggest problems feed lot operators face and much of that can be handled with diet as well. Now go back to sleep.

 

[1wlimo]

I have to agree with CC and Dun. The idea that feedlots would intentionally make cattle sick makes no sense, and I find it difficult to believe that anyone over the age of 12 would buy into it.

I do not believe that single feedlot intentionally tries to make animals sick, how ever feeding high grain rations hurts animals. Look at the dairy industry where they have serious financial problems due to cows burning out and thus they need a high replacement rate.

Just because feeding grain to feeders works in the sense of we get to harvest the meat, and in North America is the perceived norm does not mean that it is correct, or the most economic, or that a forage based system would not work.

It is easy to take the information that is pumped at us by an industry that wants us to buy their products. Feed loting and feeding corn came about to try and increase the price of corn. The is no reason why forage based systems could not supply the same volume of beef. You just will not get promotion or research from the current industry to support this as it is against their interest.

Beef production in Europe is done with out implanted hormones, and still works. There are many operations that feeder cattle do not see a single grain in their entire life.

 

[Ky hills]

I have to agree with CC and Dun. The idea that feedlots would intentionally make cattle sick makes no sense, and I find it difficult to believe that anyone over the age of 12 would buy into it.

I do not believe that single feedlot intentionally tries to make animals sick, how ever feeding high grain rations hurts animals. Look at the dairy industry where they have serious financial problems due to cows burning out and thus they need a high replacement rate.

Just because feeding grain to feeders works in the sense of we get to harvest the meat, and in North America is the perceived norm does not mean that it is correct, or the most economic, or that a forage based system would not work.

It is easy to take the information that is pumped at us by an industry that wants us to buy their products. Feed loting and feeding corn came about to try and increase the price of corn. The is no reason why forage based systems could not supply the same volume of beef. You just will not get promotion or research from the current industry to support this as it is against their interest.

Beef production in Europe is done with out implanted hormones, and still works. There are many operations that feeder cattle do not see a single grain in their entire life.

As has been said, foraged based can work but on a small scale. I can't see a feasible large scale forage finishing system being possible due to the amount of acreage and quality of forage that would be necessary to finish cattle.
I'm not sure that the high replacement percentages of dairy cattle are a direct result of high grain rations.

 

[dun]

I'm not sure that the high replacement percentages of dairy cattle are a direct result of high grain rations.

It's mostly because of udders