Dr Oz didn't speak well of grain fed beef today

[Kell-inKY]

As has been said, foraged based can work but on a small scale. I can't see a feasible large scale forage finishing system being possible due to the amount of acreage and quality of forage that would be necessary to finish cattle.

Devils advocate again, is there any proof what you say is true? Can you give me the reasons why you don't think it is possible, I would honestly like to know.

Is it possible to compute the amount of acres of corn needed to finish a steer vs. how much grass/hay could be grown on the same acreage? And you need to account for the fuel and material/fertilizer to plant and harvest the corn, spray for weeds and pests, expensive equipment to plant and harvest, transport it etc.

Plus, when you grow corn, the land is fallow for 9 months out of the year, not producing anything, that just seems wasteful.

 

[M-5]

As has been said, foraged based can work but on a small scale. I can't see a feasible large scale forage finishing system being possible due to the amount of acreage and quality of forage that would be necessary to finish cattle.

Devils advocate again, is there any proof what you say is true? Can you give me the reasons why you don't think it is possible, I would honestly like to know.

Is it possible to compute the amount of acres of corn needed to finish a steer vs. how much grass/hay could be grown on the same acreage? And you need to account for the fuel and material/fertilizer to plant and harvest the corn, spray for weeds and pests, expensive equipment to plant and harvest, transport it etc.

Plus, when you grow corn, the land is fallow for 9 months out of the year, not producing anything, that just seems wasteful.

that's not how its done here on most places. corn is being planted right now and as soon as it is harvested they fall in behind the combine and plant beans and as soon as beans are harvested the plant wheat or oats and will run calves on that thru the winter.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Corn silage has the highest pounds produced per acre of any roughage source.
1 acre of 125 bu/ac corn will produce about 18 tons of silage.
If you had a 700 pound steer, and he had a conversion of 8:1 on just solely silage, and need 700# of gain to reach 1400# finish weight.
18t x 2000= 36,000 pounds of silage.
36,000/8= 4500 pounds of beef, so about 6-1400# finished steers with 700 pounds of gain. Or you could figure it 700 x 8= 5600, 36000/5600= 6.42...and get the same answer.
Or .1667 acres per head.
About the best grazing I've heard of was .25 acres per head, and I don't think >95% of the USA could get that year round.

If you divided up that one acre into 1/3 silage, 1/3 grain corn, and 1/3 soy, or alfalfa you could get even more on per acre.

Take it or leave it, i'm out...

 

[Ky hills]

I'm not sure that the high replacement percentages of dairy cattle are a direct result of high grain rations.

It's mostly because of udders

Yes sir, I have some close friends that ran dairies, never once did either of them ever blame corn for anything, but after seeing some of those udders, it's plain see why dairy cows don't hold up too long. They are bred for one thing, milk.

 

[Ky hills]

Corn silage has the highest pounds produced per acre of any roughage source.
1 acre of 125 bu/ac corn will produce about 18 tons of silage.
If you had a 700 pound steer, and he had a conversion of 8:1 on just solely silage, and need 700# of gain to reach 1400# finish weight.
18t x 2000= 36,000 pounds of silage.
36,000/8= 4500 pounds of beef, so about 6-1400# finished steers with 700 pounds of gain. Or you could figure it 700 x 8= 5600, 36000/5600= 6.42...and get the same answer.
Or .1667 acres per head.
About the best grazing I've heard of was .25 acres per head, and I don't think >95% of the USA could get that year round.

If you divided up that one acre into 1/3 silage, 1/3 grain corn, and 1/3 soy, or alfalfa you could get even more on per acre.

Take it or leave it, i'm out...

Thank you for posting those figures. I agree, most of the land would be far more acreage per head than .25, and that would only be for a few months a year, at best.

 

[Ky hills]

As has been said, foraged based can work but on a small scale. I can't see a feasible large scale forage finishing system being possible due to the amount of acreage and quality of forage that would be necessary to finish cattle.

Devils advocate again, is there any proof what you say is true? Can you give me the reasons why you don't think it is possible, I would honestly like to know.

Is it possible to compute the amount of acres of corn needed to finish a steer vs. how much grass/hay could be grown on the same acreage? And you need to account for the fuel and material/fertilizer to plant and harvest the corn, spray for weeds and pests, expensive equipment to plant and harvest, transport it etc.

Plus, when you grow corn, the land is fallow for 9 months out of the year, not producing anything, that just seems wasteful.

Where I am there isn't much corn grown, so I don't have any first hand knowledge of that. What I do know is that, a lot of the land is hilly and rough, we can raise cattle, and they can do pretty well in this environment. The pastures require a lot of renovation, to maintain high quality grazing. Otherwise fescue, and blue grass it is. There aren't many real large farms around here, so smaller cow/calf and some stocker operations are what is here. If I were to attempt to go forage only, let alone try to finish cattle it would take a lot more land than I have or probably could even have access to. I try to maintain about 40 cows, and try to rotate pastures when possible.

 

[Kell-inKY]

Corn silage has the highest pounds produced per acre of any roughage source.
1 acre of 125 bu/ac corn will produce about 18 tons of silage.

thanks for posting that, that's pretty dang good, and I respectfully realize you said you were out,

but for the most part only the grain is harvested here, anyway to calculate grain only? I was thinking "grain fed beef" was the main point of the show, if the main thing they are feeding is silage at the feedlots then I think the whole topic needs to be changed.

 

[Kell-inKY]

In my area there are tons of corn/rowcrop, many with old fences still surrounding where they used to have cattle. Maybe half of the farmers will put out wheat before beans, otherwise it is a single crop and remains fallow most of the year unfortunately.

Most large (100-200 head) cattle operations (that I know of) here are actually row crop farmers doing it on the side due to being able to graze crop residue for "free".

 

[1wlimo]

Corn silage has the highest pounds produced per acre of any roughage source.
1 acre of 125 bu/ac corn will produce about 18 tons of silage.
If you had a 700 pound steer, and he had a conversion of 8:1 on just solely silage, and need 700# of gain to reach 1400# finish weight.
18t x 2000= 36,000 pounds of silage.
36,000/8= 4500 pounds of beef, so about 6-1400# finished steers with 700 pounds of gain. Or you could figure it 700 x 8= 5600, 36000/5600= 6.42...and get the same answer.
Or .1667 acres per head.
About the best grazing I've heard of was .25 acres per head, and I don't think >95% of the USA could get that year round.

If you divided up that one acre into 1/3 silage, 1/3 grain corn, and 1/3 soy, or alfalfa you could get even more on per acre.

Take it or leave it, i'm out...

Thank you for posting those figures. I agree, most of the land would be far more acreage per head than .25, and that would only be for a few months a year, at best.

There are annual mixtures that will raise AUM to 4, and it is not as simple as a straight feed calculation. Making corn silage requires an investment in machinery, and storage. This financial consideration means that corn silage ground has to carry more stock to cover the increased costs.

Pushing dairy cows to higher yields to reduce costs leads delays in reproduction, feet problems, udder problems, metabolic disorders, and general shorter life span. Also housing, and machine costs. Grazed milk production using a small framed cow such as a Jersey have a lower cost per unit of milk produced over time. UK 1920's people could not make money, guy invented the milking bail, milked his cows in the pasture made money at the same low milk price. Same applies today, so why complicate things.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Corn silage has the highest pounds produced per acre of any roughage source.
1 acre of 125 bu/ac corn will produce about 18 tons of silage.
If you had a 700 pound steer, and he had a conversion of 8:1 on just solely silage, and need 700# of gain to reach 1400# finish weight.
18t x 2000= 36,000 pounds of silage.
36,000/8= 4500 pounds of beef, so about 6-1400# finished steers with 700 pounds of gain. Or you could figure it 700 x 8= 5600, 36000/5600= 6.42...and get the same answer.
Or .1667 acres per head.
About the best grazing I've heard of was .25 acres per head, and I don't think >95% of the USA could get that year round.

If you divided up that one acre into 1/3 silage, 1/3 grain corn, and 1/3 soy, or alfalfa you could get even more on per acre.

Take it or leave it, i'm out...

Thank you for posting those figures. I agree, most of the land would be far more acreage per head than .25, and that would only be for a few months a year, at best.

There are annual mixtures that will raise AUM to 4, and it is not as simple as a straight feed calculation. Making corn silage requires an investment in machinery, and storage. This financial consideration means that corn silage ground has to carry more stock to cover the increased costs.

Pushing dairy cows to higher yields to reduce costs leads delays in reproduction, feet problems, udder problems, metabolic disorders, and general shorter life span. Also housing, and machine costs. Grazed milk production using a small framed cow such as a Jersey have a lower cost per unit of milk produced over time. UK 1920's people could not make money, guy invented the milking bail, milked his cows in the pasture made money at the same low milk price. Same applies today, so why complicate things.

Thought we were talking about pounds produced, not cost?

 

[Jogeephus]

Plus, when you grow corn, the land is fallow for 9 months out of the year, not producing anything, that just seems wasteful.

Took this picture at work today of one of the fallow corn fields you speak. Doesn't look too wasteful to me but I may be a little biased. Given the fact we now produce 262% more food with 2% less inputs than we did in 1950 I think we are doing a pretty good job. Its really sad that facts like this aren't news worthy and we have so many criticizing our methods and depicting us as inhumane and not environmentally friendly but its easy to complain when food is plentiful and cheap and when so many are so far removed from the land they a clueless to what goes on a farm or ranch.

Here is another pic of a fallow cotton field I took today.

I'll shut up now. Just pass the organic gluten-free sustainable grits please. Or would should that be polenta? :bang:

 

[Cross-7]

There's a sucker born every minute.
There's a fool born every minute

It's amazing to me that people blindly believe everything they hear.
Chipotle restaurant comes to mind
People are dumb as sheep

 

[TexasBred]

Just because feeding grain to feeders works in the sense of we get to harvest the meat, and in North America is the perceived norm does not mean that it is correct, or the most economic, or that a forage based system would not work.

It is easy to take the information that is pumped at us by an industry that wants us to buy their products. Feed loting and feeding corn came about to try and increase the price of corn. The is no reason why forage based systems could not supply the same volume of beef. You just will not get promotion or research from the current industry to support this as it is against their interest.

Beef production in Europe is done with out implanted hormones, and still works. There are many operations that feeder cattle do not see a single grain in their entire life.

Feed lots also feed a lot of "forage" to maintain a balanced diet but if you want to go forage only be prepared to be just like the grass fed folks and feed it til it's at least 2 years old in order to get it to slaughter weight and then convince ALL your customers it taste just as good as grain finished beef as they pay twice the price. A whole lot more to the situation than just pushing the sell of corn.

 

[TexasBred]

Corn silage has the highest pounds produced per acre of any roughage source.
1 acre of 125 bu/ac corn will produce about 18 tons of silage.
If you had a 700 pound steer, and he had a conversion of 8:1 on just solely silage, and need 700# of gain to reach 1400# finish weight.
18t x 2000= 36,000 pounds of silage.
36,000/8= 4500 pounds of beef, so about 6-1400# finished steers with 700 pounds of gain. Or you could figure it 700 x 8= 5600, 36000/5600= 6.42...and get the same answer.
Or .1667 acres per head.
About the best grazing I've heard of was .25 acres per head, and I don't think >95% of the USA could get that year round.

If you divided up that one acre into 1/3 silage, 1/3 grain corn, and 1/3 soy, or alfalfa you could get even more on per acre.

Take it or leave it, i'm out...

Don't forget that your silage is 65% WATER. That 18 tons is about 5000 lbs. of dry matter.

 

[rockroadseminole]

I've known the Harris family for a long time. It's important to remember that we all market our cattle in different ways. His daughter is a marketing GENIUS. She found out that a premium would be paid by the yuppies for something exclusive (grass fed) and she ran with it. It's a regular zoo out there. They are just as much agritoursim as meat processors. Free range chickens, hogs, turkeys, you name it. They take the prices the average guy gets and double it by putting an exclusive logo on it. I don't know how long the fad will last, but I tip my hat for trying something outside of the box.

 

[rockroadseminole]

Also... You've got to be a little off your rocker to pay $100 for a turkey or 2x per pound for grass fed beef. I think Dr. Oz's viewers would be the perfect audience for them to pitch their brand.

 

[Cross-7]

Marketing and promoting your product is one thing but fabricating lies and slandering your competition is something completely different.
This whole health thing from antibiotic free, hormone free, cage free, grass fed is just a gimmick to create sales.

The new antibiotic laws requiring a prescription that are coming in to play, the imported meat coming into to US. Are those producers held to those same standards as the U.S. beef producer or as beef processed at a usda plant ? Is the meat tested for antibiotic residues ?

If you feel grass fed is healthier than corn fed, then buy grass fed beef
Why the war on corn fed beef or corn farming
Why try to impose your beliefs others ?

Oprah, Dr Oz or any talk show talk show host makes a statement and people take it as gospel without any question or research.

Blows my mind that people are so naive

 

[Commercialfarmer]

Marketing and promoting your product is one thing but fabricating lies and slandering your competition is something completely different.
This whole health thing from antibiotic free, hormone free, cage free, grass fed is just a gimmick to create sales.

The new antibiotic laws requiring a prescription that are coming in to play, the imported meat coming into to US. Are those producers held to those same standards as the U.S. beef producer or as beef processed at a usda plant ? Is the meat tested for antibiotic residues ?

If you feel grass fed is healthier than corn fed, then buy grass fed beef
Why the war on corn fed beef or corn farming
Why try to impose your beliefs others ?

Oprah, Dr Oz or any talk show talk show host makes a statement and people take it as gospel without any question or research.

Blows my mind that people are so naive

Agree, I don't think creating misinformation is being a marketing guru. Seeing a market is great, and if people want to believe something, that is their choice. Feeding misinformation to make a dollar I have no use for. I deal with that plenty in my day job, and I just don't have any respect for those kind of people. Charge whatever price for whatever service, I dont care. But when selling under false information, you are a fraud.

 

[dun]

There's a sucker born every minute.
There's a fool born every minute

It's amazing to me that people blindly believe everything they hear.
Chipotle restaurant comes to mind
People are dumb as sheep

I hate sheep but I think it's unfair to compare them to these idiots.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

I watched the videos linked to above, not sure what all the fuss is about, his "infographic" seemed pretty much right on the money about how most cattle are still raised on farms eating grass and then sold to feedlots. I did have a problem with the grass fed farmer, something about him just doesn't sit right? Maybe he is too self promotional, I don't know, just something. If someone would lay out what they specifically said that was untrue it might help me understand. Commercialfarmer, not trying to single you out or offend, but I had a couple of comments

Nutritionists and veterinarians are employed at high costs to feedyards to create the best and most efficient means of turning feed into quality beef.

Aren't these the same geniuses who ground up sick dead cows to feed to other cows? "Efficient" is the major gripe of people wanting more natural foods, those efficient tomatoes and apples at the store suck.

You cannot produce enough grassfed beef to support the beef demand. It cannot and will not be done.

I have an honest question, is this statement true? I've read it dozens of times but would like to know if there is something backing it up. Is there some kind of study or something, I know a whole lot of pastures have been turned into corn, is there some way to convert how finishing a steer on corn vs. the grass in that same field would compute?

One last thing, just because there are a few loudmouth anti-farming anti-meat activists making noise doesn't mean the vast majority of people don't support farmers. There is a huge back-to-farm movement or farm to fork, or farm to table, whatever you want to call it. All they want to do is buy directly from a farm, eliminate the processing, and the have healthy food for their family.

disclaimer: I do not watch "Dr. Oz" but know who he is, and I eat processed beef every day but plan on eating and selling as much grass-fed as I can produce.

Kelly, I lost my post twice. So this is short.

http://extension.psu.edu/animals/beef/g ... beef-story

I think they underestimate the lack of efficiency, but I can't go back into all the details.

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsi ... ection-101

Understand that meat processing is highly monitored. Each animal is inspected live, and their carcass. Sick cattle don't just get ground up.

And feeding any species protein back to the same species is highly illegal. Main reason is because of prions and the potential for BSE.