novatech
Well-known member
The best and least expensive program for herd improvement is taking an AI course.SRBeef":13qz9kqz said:
Close Breeding
- Thread starter HDRider
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Old_man_emu
Well-known member
This might be a bit general, but, would I see the biggest benefit from half sib or uncle x neice mating being the female progeny if I get it right?
I have a very good bull calf at the moment that has a lot of half sisters and and neices, and I think he will grow to be very similar to his sire, only better. So as I see it, when I select the best of his half sisters for him to be joined back to, I should be further fixing the desirable traits i.e growth, muscle, good udders and structural correctness?
As I am also in the business of producing steers, do I stand to lose via " inbred breeding depression"?
I have a very good bull calf at the moment that has a lot of half sisters and and neices, and I think he will grow to be very similar to his sire, only better. So as I see it, when I select the best of his half sisters for him to be joined back to, I should be further fixing the desirable traits i.e growth, muscle, good udders and structural correctness?
As I am also in the business of producing steers, do I stand to lose via " inbred breeding depression"?
SRBeef
Well-known member
Old_man_emu":1uj1yr94 said:
I find this page on line breeding very interesting and have posted a link here before: http://www.witherspoonsherefords.com/WNHWEB11.HTM
Particularly the section at the bottom of the page:
"To achieve the best results of this form of line breeding, one should select only the very best son or sons of the bull to be used on only the very best daughters of the bull. This produces half brother/half sister matings. The resulting pedigree has two lines tracing to the choosen bull who is the grandsire on both sides of the pedigree. Then one can extend the line breeding by selecting the best linebred sons to be bred to the best linebred daughters, producing a pedigree that makes the original bull the grandsire on all four lines of the pedigree"
There is then a chart illustrating the concept.
Jim
About AI: seems like it still requires a cleanup bull and to do it right seems to be more than I want to get into.
Old_man_emu
Well-known member
Fair enough if you don't want to go the effort of AI, but in regards with to back bulls, why not make all the female progeny of the back up bull terminal or sell them as breeders to someone else? You could even use a complete different bull as your back up. From what I'm hearing, it is possible to acheive very high conception rates with AI, in a small herd the number of calves sired by he back up bull will likely be very small.
SRBeef
Well-known member
Old_man_emu":3v80bfmh said:
That's my point - if I still need to have a bull around all year even with AI, I might as well keep 2 bulls around and do some herd improvement with careful linebreeding as described in the link from my own known genetics. Just bring in a good outside registered bull, in my case Hereford, every few years for the registered cows and keep a good son or son of a son so the main bull is never breeding his daughters. That's my plan to build my herd internally. I can not see myself ever buying any more outside females. It takes a few years to see the often major differences between cow families. I want to build from my known cow genetics to build the cowherd for my system. With two bulls, one outside registered plus one raised I can use the second bull to spread my best cow genetics around.
Jim
highgrit
Well-known member
Why not sell the bull you have now and buy another young one? Good registerd young bulls cost about what a older bull will bring at the sale barn with these high prices. AI is expensive by the time you buy what you need. If you AI by timed heat, it takes longer than a week and 2 shots. And if you AI by observed heat, you need to check on your cows twice a day. If its raining, snowing or what ever, you have to get the job done. This is my personal opinion and its not worth much. I don't think real close breeding is bad at all, if you see something you don't like sell it. Good luck, I just got a new bull yesterday.
Old_man_emu
Well-known member
Oh right, I thinking along the lines of people who don't like having 2 bulls and instead choose to go down the father/daughter track.
It was a good link and it is actually making me think about using the son of my previous herd sire over his half sisters and neices.
It was a good link and it is actually making me think about using the son of my previous herd sire over his half sisters and neices.
SRBeef
Well-known member
highgrit":1b4dttig said:
Yes I could sell the registered bull I have now, however I don't feel very confident that I could find let alone afford another one with quite the combination of traits I'm looking for and have in this bull. This picture is of my registered Huth bull U070 whos is a frame size 5 and a good beefy conformation, calving ease and some real good genetics along with a very good disposition. He's like a 2,000 lb teddy bear (although I am still careful around him). He defers to me. I like him. I'm unlikely to find as good a fit for a replacement. I'd like to keep him around as long as possible. The problem will come in the registered cow group. Maybe for a year or two I use my non registered son of U070 on registered heifers. I'm not quite sure why I am registering anything anyway. I don't plan on selling any registered stock.
I think I posted this photo before but will here again for reference.
His job is to reduce my average cow size as well as to give me some good beefy steers. But right now giving me some good future cows is his #1 job.
I am hoping to keep one of HIS sons out of from this spring out of one of my better cows to replace #22 my current raised bull. We'll see which cow has a good looking/good performing U070 bull calf this spring. I'm going to be real careful which bull calves get cut in May.
An interesting discussion. Thank you.
Jim
from this angle I like your bull, have you calved out any of his daughters yet? I guess my question (if you have) is 'is the udder and teat quality better in his daughters than their dams?' to me if the answer is yes I would not be afraid to make some sire/daughter matings or keep a son out of a good uddered cow to use across half sibs.
dieselbeef
Well-known member
i skipped to here but just what do ya think would be happening if it was the 1800's and cows free ranged or buffalo herds..think dad didnt chase down his daughter?? jus sayin..its animals...not peoples
dieselbeef
Well-known member
point i hadnt thought of...thanks
gary
gary
Oldtimer
Well-known member
Nicest bull calf I had this year was a half sister- half brother mating ( with both parents being sired by Bannon of Wye UMF 8420) -- Lazy Bar B Bannon 2 BY # 17049646....
Not really a planned mating as I run multiple (like type) sires with the cows- and let them do much of the breeding decisions- then after choosing which to keep, DNA them.. But this calf shined from when he was born... 81 lb BW, 705 WW, ratioed at 116, phenotype I like, good feet, fast early growth, puppy dog quiet- and unless I miss my bet will be moderate mature sized- and hopefully throw some of the great maternal qualities of the old Bannon of Wye bull ....
Everyone that came looking at bulls picked him first- but I decided to keep him around for myself for a while and use him on some cows/heifers and see if he can put those traits into some of his calves....
Not really a planned mating as I run multiple (like type) sires with the cows- and let them do much of the breeding decisions- then after choosing which to keep, DNA them.. But this calf shined from when he was born... 81 lb BW, 705 WW, ratioed at 116, phenotype I like, good feet, fast early growth, puppy dog quiet- and unless I miss my bet will be moderate mature sized- and hopefully throw some of the great maternal qualities of the old Bannon of Wye bull ....
Everyone that came looking at bulls picked him first- but I decided to keep him around for myself for a while and use him on some cows/heifers and see if he can put those traits into some of his calves....
