Civil war

[Caustic Burno]

I have a view. Lincoln knew how much the north, west of the Appalachians, needed the Mississippi River. Railroads were new technology, unproven. Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, etc. had no market for their goods if they couldn't get those goods to New Orleans. Lincoln had floated a load of goods to NOLA as a young man. Like today, the Midwest produced more than it had people to consume, and the Appalachians were a huge barrier to the consumers in the east. Imagine a CSA levying a tariff on every barge going down that river. Economic disaster for the Union States.
Now, r.e. slavery. A war needs an emotional trigger. The battleship Maine, the Lusitania, Pearl Harbor. There were plenty of abolitionists in the North. Nowhere near a majority, but enough to dominate the media and keep the issue always in the public eye. So in that sense you can say slavery triggered the war.
The reconstruction period was shameful, there is no way around that.

I got to talk with someone who lived in the period my great grandmother lived to be 104. Now I was little boy sitting on her porch and she still had my G Grandfathers uniform and sabre he was in the 7th Texas Calvary.
Reconstuction was shameful I remember her telling me how they had to eat dog dumplings and other things to survive as the war had consumed everything. What the war didn't consume the North had destroyed everything from a Durham cow to a Shanghi rooster.
To respond to CP post about it being about slavery it wasn't in view she presented. It was about the rights of the states to govern themselves. Many couldn't bring themselves to bear arms against there home state and as the politican's ceded the states from the Union, many East Texas boy's went back home to Alabama,Mississippi, Georgia etc to fight with thier people.

If you need to do the math my G Grandma was born in 1855, grandmother in 1877 and mom in 1914.

 

[Jogeephus]

Gen Grant owned slaves and according to the US census per capita there was a higher pecentage of freed black slave owners who owned a higher number of slaves than there were white. Its true Lincoln did not like slavery and his idea was to ship them to south america because he viewed them as somewhat less than human and not capable of adapting to civilized standards of society. Lincoln's emancipation proclamation only freed slaves in states not loyal to the union and in some instances only certain portions of these states.

I can't say why others fought but I can say why my family fought for the south since we did not own slaves nor did we believe in it. We fought because we were South Carolinian's first and and american's second. From what I've gathered, it seems my family did its most noteworthy fighting during the reconstruction era when the northern hulligans and thieves fell upon us like the plague. Fortunately these verming did a pi$$ poor job of reconstructing us and several died trying.

 

[breed549]

so cool
br

 

[melking]

Thanks so much Chrisy. Very informative photos. I agree with the majority, the war had little or nothing to do about slavery, it was as someone already said the emotional trigger. The only thing that war fixes is economies.

 

[backhoeboogie]

And to this day you have to be half drunk and have an exit strategy(I may or may not know from experiance :hide: ) to suggest that it was really all about states rights and politics as aposed to slavery.
I like the version I was taught in gradeschool where it was so easy to tell who the badguys were.

I have no intention of cutting and running so I must be half drunk then.

Keep drinking the Kool Aid and ignore the facts. Its okay. A whole lot of the population does just that.

Check how many states left the union before Lincoln even took office. Check when the war started. Check when the Emancipation Proclamation was issued. Then drink some more Kool Aid.

Peyton Bland lost every single son he had to the war. How many slaves did these boys own?

 

[Caustic Burno]

And to this day you have to be half drunk and have an exit strategy(I may or may not know from experiance :hide: ) to suggest that it was really all about states rights and politics as aposed to slavery.
I like the version I was taught in gradeschool where it was so easy to tell who the badguys were.

I have no intention of cutting and running so I must be half drunk then.

Keep drinking the Kool Aid and ignore the facts. Its okay. A whole lot of the population does just that.

Check how many states left the union before Lincoln even took office. Check when the war started. Check when the Emancipation Proclamation was issued. Then drink some more Kool Aid.

Peyton Bland lost every single son he had to the war. How many slaves did these boys own?

You might also include many a young man in the south was conscripted the first draft to ever take place in this country.
History books tend to leave that out as well. Doesn't appeal to the liberal thinkers. Much better to sell as racial Southern White Trash.

 

[Dave]

There were also draft riots in the north. The war wasn't as popular in the north as some history books might want you to believe.
No matter if they were fighting for states rights or fighting for the union. When the bullets start to fly it doesn't matter which side you are on, you are just fighting to stay alive.

 

[houstoncutter]

I guess the Civil War has had many outcomes for many types of people. Boy i should know, cause I have blue blooded aristocrats on one side of the family tree and scoundrel horse thieves on the other.

I would think that my great grandmother would have been quite pleased with the outcome of the war, as she was half Cherokee and Black...Others in the family were not so happy, some had fought for the Stars and Bars and others had fought for the Union. Sill others had returned to Germany, to await the conclusion of the war. From stories and letters that have been told over the years, some members of the family never spoke to other members of the family the rest of their lives. One great great uncle who was a general in the union army, came back and helped members of the family that had fought for the South. That is , if the were willing to accept help from a bluecoat.

As CB's dear great grandmother said, after the war conditions in South were brutal and unforgivable. Of course, the South choose this destiny, by choosing to leave the union. As was stated earlier, many states had left office before Lincoln had even been sworn in. Why? They didnt like the outcome of the election.....THEIR were many of us who didnt care for the outcome of the last presidential election.

Eight years before Lincoln used the phrase "a house divided against itself cannot stand". A Texan said " A nation divided against itself cannot stand". That Texan's name was Sam Houston....Ol Sam had a real problem with the Stars and Bars as well..

Was slavery the cause of the Civil War, nope.... Just greed on both sides...Many a war has been started over greed and religon....Our hands are not clean on the matter either.....Manifest Destiny......remember that term from school.... I remember I took quite the tongue lashing from my history teacher, when I told her that in the country we called that theft...Of course being dyslectic never helped my cause much..lol.. I mean , take the emotion out of thinking. Were not the Japs in the 30"s doing the same thing our country had done a hundred years earlier? Remember the term "go west young man" the Japs were doing the same thing. Were they brutal? Yes, but were our forefathers any less brutal to the Indians???

Hopefully the ramblings of a dyslectic ol coot make some sense to some of you. Lets pray that we dont see this type of conflict in our country again.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

talking to a black man awhile back... his grandmother was half Cherokee, from here and so was mine... and im thinking 'dear lord" what would a DNA test between us show... all my bigotted years flashed before my eyes :cowboy:

 

[Ryder]

And to this day you have to be half drunk and have an exit strategy(I may or may not know from experiance :hide: ) to suggest that it was really all about states rights and politics as aposed to slavery.
I like the version I was taught in gradeschool where it was so easy to tell who the badguys were.

I have no intention of cutting and running so I must be half drunk then.

Keep drinking the Kool Aid and ignore the facts. Its okay. A whole lot of the population does just that.

Check how many states left the union before Lincoln even took office. Check when the war started. Check when the Emancipation Proclamation was issued. Then drink some more Kool Aid.

Peyton Bland lost every single son he had to the war. How many slaves did these boys own?

Hey Boogie, pass that jug over this way. I don't want to get too dry. :drink: :lol:

 

[ChrisB]

I wonder how many people really knew what they were fighting for. Look how the media tries to distort news today where we have many different sources for obtaining news where with a little research we can hopefully find the truth. Can you imagine back then when people were getting news from a single source and it took weeks to get it?

I would really suggest that people read the southern states declarations of sucession. But then maybe these historical documents have been edited by those dang yankees. Sure there were more underlying issues than you will read in a grade school textbook, but saying that 'the winners get to write the history books' is bordering on the absurd. How come over the last 150 years there has never been a big push to have the "real truth" come out?

Maybe the people actually fighting in the war had different reasons, but poitically it is pretty evident that it was about the rights of states to own slaves.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

i can say this... for some broke ass irishman, that had never seen a black man,, to go barefooted and charge head on in to open fire. there better be a bigger reason for the war, or most would have said to he// with this noise, you want em, you fight for em..

 

[Dave]

i can say this... for some broke ass irishman, that had never seen a black man,, to go barefooted and charge head on in to open fire. there better be a bigger reason for the war, or most would have said to he// with this noise, you want em, you fight for em..

Yep, but if you were ordered to charge and didn't..... well they put you against a wall. At least charging you had a chance.

Oregon, which became a state about then, wanted to stay out of the entire slavery debate. So they just made it against the law for blacks to move into the state. Free, slave, or otherwise. Lots of people moved west just before the out break of the war to avoid the entire mess.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Also, it is absurd (and insulting) to suggest all those folks went to war and did not even know what they were fighting for. Entire families were completely wiped out. They did not own slaves, never did, and never intended to.

There are people ready for Texas to succeed right now, today. You can go to other threads in this forum and read about Martial Law being imposed. Is this about slavery too????

 

[Ryder]

I wonder how many people really knew what they were fighting for. Look how the media tries to distort news today where we have many different sources for obtaining news where with a little research we can hopefully find the truth. Can you imagine back then when people were getting news from a single source and it took weeks to get it?

I would really suggest that people read the southern states declarations of sucession. But then maybe these historical documents have been edited by those dang yankees. Sure there were more underlying issues than you will read in a grade school textbook, but
saying that 'the winners get to write the history books' is bordering on the absurd.
Say what? :???: Surely you jest.

How come over the last 150 years there has never been a big push to have the "real truth" come out?
Same as always. Same as today. It doesn't make front page news. The power of the media to control.Any big push gets ridiculed and squelched pretty fast. It is not politically correct.That is one of the reasons some of us refuse to forget.

Maybe the people actually fighting in the war had different reasons, but poitically it is pretty evident that it was about the rights of states to own slaves.

 

[TexasBred]

Also, it is absurd (and insulting) to suggest all those folks went to war and did not even know what they were fighting for. Entire families were completely wiped out. They did not own slaves, never did, and never intended to.

There are people ready for Texas to succeed right now, today. You can go to other threads in this forum and read about Martial Law being imposed. Is this about slavery too????

Those wanting Texas to seceed now are probably out of the the same lineage and mentality that volunteered to fight in the civil war without having a clue what it was all about or even who the enemy was. Most thought it was going to be little more than a few attacks and then all would be fine within a few weeks or months. (yeah read those letters home). Act first then worry about the consequences latter if ever. Like it or not the south did not want to lose $6 billion dollars worth of slaves (that's in 1860's dollars). Don't tell me they weren't important to those that had them. It supported their entire lifestyle. If you weren't a rich land owner you were only one level above a slave, always working for the "man" and barely surviving. He11 we brag about how hard it was.

We (the south) got our asses handed to us. That's about all the real history that matters. All the rebel battle flags in the south won't change that.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Leroy Walker predicted you could wipe up all the blood spilled with a hankerchief http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/2 ... /110419948

 

[backhoeboogie]

Also, it is absurd (and insulting) to suggest all those folks went to war and did not even know what they were fighting for. Entire families were completely wiped out. They did not own slaves, never did, and never intended to.

There are people ready for Texas to succeed right now, today. You can go to other threads in this forum and read about Martial Law being imposed. Is this about slavery too????

Those wanting Texas to seceed now are probably out of the the same lineage and mentality that volunteered to fight in the civil war without having a clue what it was all about or even who the enemy was. Most thought it was going to be little more than a few attacks and then all would be fine within a few weeks or months. (yeah read those letters home). Act first then worry about the consequences latter if ever. Like it or not the south did not want to lose $6 billion dollars worth of slaves (that's in 1860's dollars). Don't tell me they weren't important to those that had them. It supported their entire lifestyle. If you weren't a rich land owner you were only one level above a slave, always working for the "man" and barely surviving. be nice we brag about how hard it was.

We (the south) got our asses handed to us. That's about all the real history that matters. All the rebel battle flags in the south won't change that.

I respectfully disagree with much of this TB. A whole bunch of cattle barons started out with not much more than a lasso. They did not own slaves.

Our history training makes us think the Hatfields and McCoys was big. It no way compares to the Taylor-Sutton fued but most folks have never heard of the Taylor Sutton fued. Same with Billy the Kid versus folks like say - Wes Hardin. For those who have heard of Wes, the Denver paper of that day said Wes Hardin shot a man for snoring in his sleep and that is enough proof to put this as fact in Time Life Books. The real account of what happened by 3 witnesses doesn't matter.

 

[Caustic Burno]

TB I respectfully disagree the South got it's ass handed to them.
They started with less men and didn't have the factories to produce the means and inflicted more casulaties.
The South flat out fought the north they just couldn't resupply the troops.
The Union started out with a 2 to 1 superiority and when the war ended it was 3 to 1.

The South screwed up in taking up a defensive stance rather than invading until it was to late and the Northern War Machine was in full capacity. The South had no desire to invade or rule the Northern States as they did the Southern.
A 150 years later this is still a bitter and emotional subject to many today.

I can understand state's wanting to leave the Union as the Federal government has grown way past it's constitutional powers. I am not advocating it I can understand. The Federal government no longer represent's the people it represent's a few major population center's. This is a major flaw in the electoral college in winner take all on the state. One major city can hand all the electoral votes to a canidate while the rest of the state congessional district's voted for the other canidate.

There is a division in this country and it is growing I have no clue to the answer.
History has a way of repeating itself.

 

[TexasBred]

I respectfully disagree with much of this TB. A whole bunch of cattle barons started out with not much more than a lasso. They did not own slaves.

Our history training makes us think the Hatfields and McCoys was big. It no way compares to the Taylor-Sutton fued but most folks have never heard of the Taylor Sutton fued. Same with Billy the Kid versus folks like say - Wes Hardin. For those who have heard of Wes, the Denver paper of that day said Wes Hardin shot a man for snoring in his sleep and that is enough proof to put this as fact in Time Life Books. The real account of what happened by 3 witnesses doesn't matter.

What the he11 does a family feud have to do with a civil war killing over a half million people, wounding three times that many and resulting basically in the total destruction of the south?? Nobody is saying ALL southerners owned slaves. I even said that. But 99% agreed to fight for the south and in doing so fight for the right to own slaves. The huge majority were dirt poor and barely above the level of slaves. Share croppers if you will, that "as the song says" owed their soul to the company store. And nearly 200 years latter loons are saying "The south will rise again". :bs: :bs: :bs: Get over it, grow up and move on. It ain't gonna happen. Complain about history being rewritten all you want. Condemn the reconstruction...It doesn't change the end result and it shouldn't blemish what we are today. It's fine to be proud of your ancestors regardless of which side they fought on but what they did doesn't make me or you doodily shyt.