heath
Well-known member
I know several guys close to me that run Charolais bulls on Angus cows, and could get a weaned calf one at a decent price to raise. What do you think the consistency of the calves from a cross bull like this would be like?
charolais angus cross bull
- Thread starter heath
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Caustic Burno
Well-known member
heath":2lthikoe said:
Crap that's what.
A bad cow hurts a bad bull is a trainwreck that is hard to recover from.
Never ever cut corner's on the bull . This is not a standarized composite you have no idea what is going to come out of the woodpile. I would recommend buying a good set of chain's and practice drawing the imaginary X.
You don't have a clue what kind of Hybred vigor is going to come out of that F-1 bull on your cow's.
Remember it start's at conception not birth.
Why in today's world would anyone play crap's with a set of good cow's trying to save a dime to loose a dollar.
OP
OP
heath
Well-known member
wouldn't using this cross bull be the same as using f1 Tiger Mama's?
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
heath said:
OP
OP
heath
Well-known member
So cows that are more than a two way cross are not profitable?
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
not necessarily.. but matching your breeds and keeping all your eggs in one basket.. will help breed perdictabiltyheath":37kkdh2d said:
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
heath":1rpgi5gf said:
From an TAMU article
There are also some advantages in using hybrid bulls because of their fertility and longevity. "The main thing we are interested in, however, is what they can pass on to the next generation. People buying composite bulls to utilize in a crossbreeding system need to pay attention to EPDs and make sure the bulls meet their breeding objectives.
From VCE Therefore, for a crossbreeding system to be viable, sire selection (both within and between breeds) is critical for maintaining uniformity from one generation to the next, while at the same time taking advantages of the strengths of the various breeds used in the system.
Hybrid vigor is most fully expressed when you use bulls and cows of known ancestry - not just breeding any bull to a cow you pick up from Joe down the road or you bought at the sale barn because the price was right. Work conducted at Texas A&M University by Dr. Jim Sanders has shown a 10 to 20 percentage point increase in calf crop born to F1 cows (a cow which is a first-generation cross between two breeds) when compared to straight-bred cows. The advantage will fall dramatically when F2 (F1 x F1 bred cows) or greater cows are used.
One of the most effective and simplest ways for calves to exhibit hybrid vigor is to use an F1 cow and a pure-blood bull of known performance and ancestry; this is what the Foundation livestock specialists have been suggesting to certain cooperators. Use of a pure-blood bull allows the producer to have some predictability of how the bull's progeny will perform. The prediction is made through the bull's EPDs. In the Foundation publication Crossbreeding Beef Cattle for Western Range Environments, Don Kress and Michael MacNeil stated that an average F1 crossbred cow returns up to $70 more per cow per year than the average straight-bred cow.
This was the kind of crap we were doing 40 to 50 year's ago.
He has no clue what he is putting over his cow's. This bull has not been standardized and you have no idea are you going to get the Char birthweight's of old or get lucky and get Angus.
Bull selection IMO is very critical over a set of Tiger's and even with that you can have an anomoly jump out of the wood pile causing that cow to be culled. We have year's of data on what bull's will do over a set of Tiger's he doesn't have shyt.
The data is almost endless on the F-1 mama
Light reading.
http://www.thecattlesite.com/articles/8 ... eef-cattle
We are not just doing this willy nilly.
http://msucares.com/livestock/beef/geneticslunch4.pdf
greybeard
Well-known member
Unknown in = unknown out and it might well mean crap in = crap out.
Saw this in the late 50-60s and 70s when open range was still going on here (and other places). Good mommas and good bulls turned out, by some while mutts ran with the same group and within a few years they were all mutts. Every good and desirable trait in those good mommas was replaced with some recessives that good breeders had gone to a lot of trouble to make and keep recessive. It was a 5 hundred year old woodpile.
Saw this in the late 50-60s and 70s when open range was still going on here (and other places). Good mommas and good bulls turned out, by some while mutts ran with the same group and within a few years they were all mutts. Every good and desirable trait in those good mommas was replaced with some recessives that good breeders had gone to a lot of trouble to make and keep recessive. It was a 5 hundred year old woodpile.
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
i would think after years and years it would breed out, not keep recessive... look at the longhorn after running wild for years....... outside of what they are, thier pretty well defect free.. and have some of the best udders and perfect teats ive ever seen....greybeard":x3n5kddq said:
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
ALACOWMAN":2bh88kh0 said:
It most likely would have if it had totally been left to natural selection.
I know exactly what GB is talking about here as it was the same in my neck of the wood's
You alway's had somebody adding a cow or bull to the open range. Talked about messed up cattle these wood's were full of them. But we had no idea what an EPD was if the cow or bull lokked good it was bought.
Everything look's good fat cept a hunting dog and a woman.
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
bet they where a handfull to gather
greybeard
Well-known member
Dogs, horses and mules.ALACOWMAN":21kattq8 said:
Catahoula leopard curs were king of the woods back then. Big old rawboned horses with enough leather hanging off of them they almost looked like a cow and still came out of the woods streaming blood. Our cattle were fenced in, but I watched it a lot and went on one of those endeavors with a neighbor and his sons when I was about 15--maybe 14, riding an old one eyed mare. I was never so glad to see the horse trailers and logging road in my life that evening. Ticks were so bad you didn't pull them off, you just culled 'em. I was so cut up and scraped up I looked like I had been in a sack with a bobcat for a week. I wasn't nearly as tough as I thought and didn't want no more of it.
Some branded, many used ear notches, and they may go in with one pattern of notches, and next thing ya know, the same cow had a new notch pattern. Some of them had been altered so many times wasn't much left of their ears for the dog to latch on to--and lots of fights over whose cow was whose.
People made a living gathering cattle (and hogs) for other folks back then. I only know of one guy around here now that still has horses tough enough to do it and still has a bunch of yellow curs if someone's cows get out in the forest.
TN Cattle Man
Well-known member
greybeard":1raawdx0 said:
Ticks were so bad you didn't pull them off, you just culled 'em.
Now that's some bad ticks!! And I thought we had them bad here in Tennessee!!
greybeard
Well-known member
Not bad anymore. Once they shut down open range in most counties, the ticks seemed to drop way off in ##s--not sure if it's a reduction in livestock or fireants, drought or a combination of all of em.
Seed ticks were so bad back then that I hated going to gym class in school--looked like I had smallpox or something all up and down my legs.
Grubs were really bad back then too..a woods cow's back looked and felt like a washboard.
Ughh--the bad ol days..
Seed ticks were so bad back then that I hated going to gym class in school--looked like I had smallpox or something all up and down my legs.
Grubs were really bad back then too..a woods cow's back looked and felt like a washboard.
Ughh--the bad ol days..
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
greybeard":2j0jvw3b said:
How many times did you use a Coke bottle to pop them out?
We are dateing ourself.
