Certified Angus Beef Program - Poll

[Frankie]

I'm not trying to say anything other that only 1.9 mill qualified out of 9 mill. That's AAA's report - not mine. I guess I wouldn't be real proud of that unless they are trying to impress the idea that they are very STRICK with their requirements.

Or maybe, , they're not trying to impress anyone. Maybe they're just reporting the facts!! Goodness what an idea!! Last year was an especially bad year for CAB. With the demand for beef being so good, feeders were not feeding cattle as long, thus fewer were "finished" to meet CAB specs. When you consider all the other "black" breeds, I think that's still a pretty good qualification percentage. We know Angus meet CAB specs at a higher rate.

The statement about too much Brahman genes, was in the "unknowledgeable" article that was all wrong. They were testing cattle that had passed the CAB program and were finding less Angus genes than they PERCEIVED should be in the carcasses. They are a company that is trying to sell their testing program so they came up with an outrageous news report to get noticed. This article was in the Wall Street Journal, besides other places.

MARC has research showing that the higher the Brahman influence in a carcass, the more likely it will be tough. A few years ago, the Brahman Association was supporting some feed tests and collecting carcass data to identify those Brahman blood lines that produced efficient, tasty cattle. I'd be interested to know if the tests are still ongoing? Nolan Ryan Branded Beef is the only branded beef program built on Brahman genetics. They aim for the Select grade, then use three different methods to tenderize it to meet their "guaranteed tender" claim. They sell the carcasses that grade Choice into the general meat market.

Angus cattle & Jersey do quality grade quite well. But, so do the Simmental and probably many other breeds. The BIGGEST factor on whether an animal grades - is the feeding & management program. Well, at least that's what I think. But, who am I?

I don't think "many other breeds" grade well. Of course, so many of them have added Angus, it might have improved their grading. But not all Angus grade, so it depends on what bloodlines they used. About 30 years ago, with the influx of Continental cattle, including Simmental, not enough cattle were making the grade. Some segments of the beef industry got the USDA to lower the grading standards. That's when the Angus Association started CAB. They believed consumers would be willing to pay more for a quality cut of beef. It took a long time, but they were eventually proven right.

Management and feeding are important in quality and yield grades. But if an animal doesn't have the genetics to marble, you can feed him forever and not get marbling. You need both to meet the CAB specifications.

 

[Frankie]

Believe it or not, most of the original black Simmentals came from HOLSTEINS.

Maybe the "original" black Simmentals.

When the semen came to the states, there were very few beef producers artifically breeding, so they went to the dairies & provided the semen and contracted all the heifer calves. Black gene is a dominant gene & passes on easily. There are many black Simmentals that may go back 30 years before you find any Angus genes. Now tell me how much influence the Angus has on these cattle. Black hide does not prove anything.

Now you're getting riled up, Jeanne. Are you telling me those moderate framed, soid black bulls being offered by the major semen companys today don't have Angus genetics? All the Simmental breeders I've talked to (and there aren't many around here) are using Angus bulls on their yellow (or red) and white, horned, cattle.

The proof is when they pull the hide off.

That's the truth.

The AAA website said, "Last year, 9 million fed cattle that appeared to be Angus-type were evaluated at the 32 licensed CAB processing plants across the US, and 1.9 million of those cattle had carcasses that met the specs and became CAB product." That's 21% graded well enough to pass. Not very good %.

LOL! That figure seems pretty high to me, considering almost every Continental breed has black cattle these days.

I don't think the MAJORITY of the 9 mill were "other breeds"

But you don't have anything to back that up, do you? There are producers who have paid attention to genetics, feed their own cattle, and are meeting the CAB specs at much higher percentages than you quote. As the AnguSource ear tag gets more use, we'll start identifying more genetics and management programs to meet the CAB specs more efficiently. There's a ton of money spent every year to process black animals that don't meet the specs. It's in the producer and packer's interests to come up with other ways to identify cattle that will meet CAB specs other than just the black hide, no dairy and minimal Brahman influence criteria. I think it will happen.

 

[fellersbarnoneranch]

[

The proof is when they pull the hide off.

...There's a ton of money spent every year to process black animals that don't meet the specs. It's in the producer and packer's interests to come up with other ways to identify cattle that will meet CAB specs other than just the black hide, no dairy and minimal Brahman influence criteria. I think it will happen.

I agree with you on this one, Frankie. I may be inclined o quote you on that "proof is when they pull the hide off" when we inevitably come to a Angus vs. Red Angus debate in the future. Red Angus is working to add value through a tagging system assuring Red Angus sired calves.

Not trying to beat anybody out of anything--who wants to buy a bull? ;-)

 

[Frankie]

[

The proof is when they pull the hide off.

...There's a ton of money spent every year to process black animals that don't meet the specs. It's in the producer and packer's interests to come up with other ways to identify cattle that will meet CAB specs other than just the black hide, no dairy and minimal Brahman influence criteria. I think it will happen.

I agree with you on this one, Frankie. I may be inclined o quote you on that "proof is when they pull the hide off" when we inevitably come to a Angus vs. Red Angus debate in the future. Red Angus is working to add value through a tagging system assuring Red Angus sired calves.

Not trying to beat anybody out of anything--who wants to buy a bull? ;-)

It was Jeanne who said the proof was when the hide came off. I agreed with her. The Red Angus tag system is working so good the Angus Association came up with their AnguSource tag system. I hope it will be as succesful as the Red Angus system. They're already using it as a source for the CAB "Natural" line of beef.

Tell us about your bull...

 

[Frankie]

So, what does CAB do with lower grading carcasses? Do they sell under the same label?

Cattle aren't CAB until they meet the USDA grading specifications. After the cattle are killed, if they meet the phenotype requirements, black, no dairy, minimal brahman influence, they are branded on the shoulder to indicate they might qualify as CAB. They then go down a processing line with CAB graders. If the carcass doesn't make the CAB requirements, it's shifted back into the general beef line. If it does meet the qualifcations, it's sold to a licensed CAB retailer or wholesaler. The largest demand for CAB is steaks, so not an entire carcass is sold as CAB. But the CAB folks are working with companies to produce CAB deli meat, etc. CAB hotdogs were served at the olympics. I've had them and they are good. A higher percentage of a CAB carcass is sold as CAB than any other branded beef program; but it's still not the entire carcass.

 

[Frankie]

Well, the Brahman breeders should like to hear that! The more times I read over this thread, the better I think I understand. Still, I don't want any stringy buffalo meat! How do Holsteis grade, do you think?

Holsteins can grade well. There's a grocery chain in California that uses them exclusively for their in-store branded beef. The problem with Holsteins is they are not efficient feeding cattle. It takes a lot of feed to get them to grade Choice. The up side to that is the genetic pool of Holsteins is pretty small, so feedlots have a good idea of what it will cost to feed a group of Holsteins and can base the price they're willing to pay for them on that knowledge.

 

[fellersbarnoneranch]

So let me tell you about this bull...

I am by no means some cheesey salesman--sometimes I wish I had some of their persuasive abilities, though. I am not here to try to sell anything, but while on the subject

all of our yearlings have sold except a few that we will butcher in Feb. Sure hated to see the time come that we would sell our Sell Ribeye 656 son, Fellers Big Un, but after this spring we probably will. (there's a waiting list for him--think I should have a silent auction??? ;-) )We have kept all the heifers he has sired and they are looking good.

Parting is such sweet sorrow! Anyone else sentimental or overly attached to a herdsire?

 

[mertz]

Jeanne,

I think the first article that you referred to was the black gold label for angus certified beef. They do require a 51% angus and are source varified by dna testing.They are a total different program then the CAB that you got from American Angus Assoc. although they both are marketing angus cattle one does require DNA the other does not.

 

[greenwillowherefords]

So let me tell you about this bull...

I am by no means some cheesey salesman--sometimes I wish I had some of their persuasive abilities, though. I am not here to try to sell anything, but while on the subject

all of our yearlings have sold except a few that we will butcher in Feb. Sure hated to see the time come that we would sell our Sell Ribeye 656 son, Fellers Big Un, but after this spring we probably will. (there's a waiting list for him--think I should have a silent auction??? ;-) )We have kept all the heifers he has sired and they are looking good.

Parting is such sweet sorrow! Anyone else sentimental or overly attached to a herdsire?

I like Day Rupert Tone 092 so much that when I traded him, I asked for future breeding rights. I also retained the same privilege to his first son, TSG Buckshot Tone 1

 

[Frankie]

Parting is such sweet sorrow! Anyone else sentimental or overly attached to a herdsire?

Yeah, I was pretty upset when I learned New Design 036 was gone. I still had some straws in the tank, but knew I wouldn't be able to afford to get any more. So I understand completely.

 

[dun]

I just found out that BC Cherokee Canyon is out of production. Last year I used up a bunch of his semen just to get some tail end cows bred. The price a couple of months ago was 30 bucks. Wonder what it's up to now.

dun

 

[Frankie]

I just found out that BC Cherokee Canyon is out of production. Last year I used up a bunch of his semen just to get some tail end cows bred. The price a couple of months ago was 30 bucks. Wonder what it's up to now.

dun

Is he dead or just out of production? The Angus bull Rockin' D Ambush was out of production for a couple of years. Semen prices went through the roof :?: But he's back in production now. I never have know what his problem was. The old GT Max bull went on vacation in the summer time, but was a great producer the rest of the year.

 

[dun]

I'm still trying to find out what exactly his status is. I jsut sort of worry about the daughters of a bull that's really pretty pampared and goes out of production. Makes me wonder about how long they'll stick around.

dun

 

[paul swisher]

It looks as though the CAB poll is over. I just wondered what happened to "Humble Pie" when the truth came out. waaaaaa waaaa

 

[Caustic Burno]

It looks as though the CAB poll is over. I just wondered what happened to "Humble Pie" when the truth came out. waaaaaa waaaa

Findin out crow ain't to tough cept for the feet and beaks.

 

[Frankie]

I'm still trying to find out what exactly his status is. I jsut sort of worry about the daughters of a bull that's really pretty pampared and goes out of production. Makes me wonder about how long they'll stick around.

dun

That was how I felt when I saw Rockin' D semen selling for several hundred $$ a staw when he was out of commission at such a young age. There's something to be said for longevity. Now the old Angus bull Traveler 71 had a foot infection they never could get totally cured, so his semen production was up and down. But I'm cautious about using a young bull that doesn't produce well. I think ABS's semen is packaged under standards a bit higher than required. I've known of a couple of bulls that never made into the catalog because they couldn't get the production levels where they wanted.

 

[fellersbarnoneranch]

Bovine Elite, Inc still has him listed at $30

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Jeanne,

I think the first article that you referred to was the black gold label for angus certified beef. They do require a 51% angus and are source varified by dna testing.They are a total different program then the CAB that you got from American Angus Assoc. although they both are marketing angus cattle one does require DNA the other does not.

The article just refers to "Angus-branded beef" and "beef labeled as Angus". So they may have been referring to the black gold label. I just wanted to point out the fact that the CAB program was beef quality oriented - not "breed". I have always praised the job they have done promoting beef thru this program.
And yes, I know of Simmental purebred breeders taking advantage of this increased money market. But all beef carcasses benefit, because it is a "trickle down" effect - good beef PR helps all!