Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
EVERYONE has heard of the CAB program. Don't look this up - just answer your GUT response.
Certified Angus Beef Program - Poll
- Thread starter Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Jake
Well-known member
all of the options are wrong... 51% unless your trying to imply that it's a fraud
paul swisher
Well-known member
It is a fraud. Nothing but black BS
Humble Pie":1eraveqa said:
I think it is American capitalism at its best. Alot of people are just mad that it works or that they didn't think of it first. Remeber it is just a marketing tool. If it works what is wrong with it.
Jake
Well-known member
It is a great marketing advantage started by the AAA, it's started a wave of such programs that now almost every breed has. With anything that is done in our country there is going to be some sort of fraud somewhere. People will try to slip their angus look-alikes in the programs but many are weeded out when they go to the grade. AAA has done remarkably well marketing their programs and the consumers see CAB meat as better because of their experience with the program. That is why it's having success.... not because it's a fraud. They please the customers and have MANY repeat buyers.
I voted 0, of course. There's no requirement for the animal to have any Angus genetics, but they get black from somewhere. Here's a link to the USDA specs that an animal must meet to be sold as CAB.
http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/certprog/beef/cab.htm
I think one of the smartest moves the Angus Assocition ever made was to not require proof of Angus genetics. The packers were not very interested in the program at the time. I don't think they would have ever bought into it if they had to require documentation on the cattle.
Since the program belongs to the Angus Association, they can change the rules whenever they want. I believe that once nationwide mandatory ID is established, they'll put in the requirement that one parent be Angus. The "natural" CAB brand already accepts only AnguSource animals.
http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/certprog/beef/cab.htm
I think one of the smartest moves the Angus Assocition ever made was to not require proof of Angus genetics. The packers were not very interested in the program at the time. I don't think they would have ever bought into it if they had to require documentation on the cattle.
Since the program belongs to the Angus Association, they can change the rules whenever they want. I believe that once nationwide mandatory ID is established, they'll put in the requirement that one parent be Angus. The "natural" CAB brand already accepts only AnguSource animals.
In some cases breed bashing may be the agenda. But if I raise X breed and say anything negative that's a valid response, but if I say anything negative about Y breed I'm bashing. Doesn't make sense to me. Most cases you can tell if it's ashing, but folks seem to get so defensive it doesn't make sense to me. My experience with a bunch of different breeds that I've worked with or had ourselves have been both negative and positive with two exceptions. Never had anything but negatives with those two. Others have never had a problem with them, just the way it is in the real world
dun
dun
I bet some of you did'nt know that you can have a pure 100% angus and it wont qualify for CAB. CAB is based on grade not breed, so in theory
you can have 0% angus and grade CAB. You have a good chance with angus because they marble at a higher percentage then most. If they dont grade high choice it does'nt matter what the breed they don't get CAB. ;-)
you can have 0% angus and grade CAB. You have a good chance with angus because they marble at a higher percentage then most. If they dont grade high choice it does'nt matter what the breed they don't get CAB. ;-)
ga. prime
Well-known member
I'll tell you what's good is a prime rib roast, 4-6 ribs, from the Winn-Dixie, rubbed with Montreal steak seasoning, and roasted in the oven until medium rare and served with steamed green beans and mashed potatoes and gravy from the roast. Incomparable. Winn-Dixie doesn't label CAB, CHB, etc., so I don't know what kind of animal these roasts come from but I've never had one that was less than great.
OP
OP
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
OK, by looking at the poll survey - most of you know (or guessed) that the CAB program DOES NOT require any Angus genes. Some of your comments hit it on the head.
The AAA has done a fabulous job with this program. It has done more good for the BEEF industry - than anything anyone has done.
My survey came about because of an article I read in MyCattle.com.
Following is the article I put in my newsletter (after having the President of the NY Angus Assn. proof read it to make sure it was not offensive to the Angus breeders).
MISUNDERSTANDING:
The following was an article I read at MyCattle.com.:
"Company Promotes Breed-integrity Test"
Fort Worth Star Telegram, August 05, 2004
by BARRY SHLACHTER
Just what's in that Angus-branded beef for which people willingly pay a hefty premium at the meat counter? DNA testing by an Austin-based genetics firm indicates that up to half of retail beef sold as 'Angus' does not meet federal guidelines for Angus branding, it said Wednesday. To be certified, cuts must be at least 51 percent genetically Angus.
And about three-quarters of the cuts that failed one or more tests had too much Brahman ancestry, said ViaGen Inc., which tested 560 samples bought in central Texas, Nebraska, Kansas and Illinois over the past year.
"I think consumers believe there's a significant amount of Angus [in beef labeled as Angus], and they're willing to pay more for it," said Sara Davis, ViaGen's president"
The article makes it sound like you should question the integrity of the CAB Program. The fact is that the Certified Angus Beef Program does not certify that the meat has ANY ANGUS genes in it. The following was taken off the American Angus Assn's web site:
How do I participate in the CAB Program?
By working to improve the carcass quality of your Angus and Angus-cross cattle. It's that simple, and anyone with that goal is part of the CAB Program. But you can participate at a higher level through cooperative integration, becoming part of a network with your Angus seedstock supplier to channel production into licensed CAB feedlots. It may not be as simple as many producers would like, such as "signing up," because it is a long-term process. There are no commitments other than the ones you make because of market forces. The Certified Angus Beef™ (CAB®) carcass target is generally the highest value and most logical product target for most cattle that are of at least 50% Angus genetics.
How do I certify my Angus herd?
No herds are "certified" and no living animals are actually "Certified Angus Beef." That is the trademark for Angus beef product that, after meeting the live specification of being at least 51% black-hided, the U.S. Department of Agriculture verifies as meeting eight carcass specifications. The most difficult carcass specification to meet is a quality grade of middle Choice or higher. Last year, some 9 million fed cattle that appeared to be Angus-type were evaluated at the 32 licensed CAB® processing plants across the U.S., and 1.9 million of those cattle had carcasses that met the specs and became CAB® product. The owners of those cattle at the time of sale to packers realized a premium if they sold them through some form of value-based marketing.
The CAB Program promotes using 50% Angus genetics, but it does not REQUIRE Angus genetics. The only live requirement is that they are 51% black-hided.
The AAA has done a fabulous job with this program. It has done more good for the BEEF industry - than anything anyone has done.
My survey came about because of an article I read in MyCattle.com.
Following is the article I put in my newsletter (after having the President of the NY Angus Assn. proof read it to make sure it was not offensive to the Angus breeders).
MISUNDERSTANDING:
The following was an article I read at MyCattle.com.:
"Company Promotes Breed-integrity Test"
Fort Worth Star Telegram, August 05, 2004
by BARRY SHLACHTER
Just what's in that Angus-branded beef for which people willingly pay a hefty premium at the meat counter? DNA testing by an Austin-based genetics firm indicates that up to half of retail beef sold as 'Angus' does not meet federal guidelines for Angus branding, it said Wednesday. To be certified, cuts must be at least 51 percent genetically Angus.
And about three-quarters of the cuts that failed one or more tests had too much Brahman ancestry, said ViaGen Inc., which tested 560 samples bought in central Texas, Nebraska, Kansas and Illinois over the past year.
"I think consumers believe there's a significant amount of Angus [in beef labeled as Angus], and they're willing to pay more for it," said Sara Davis, ViaGen's president"
The article makes it sound like you should question the integrity of the CAB Program. The fact is that the Certified Angus Beef Program does not certify that the meat has ANY ANGUS genes in it. The following was taken off the American Angus Assn's web site:
How do I participate in the CAB Program?
By working to improve the carcass quality of your Angus and Angus-cross cattle. It's that simple, and anyone with that goal is part of the CAB Program. But you can participate at a higher level through cooperative integration, becoming part of a network with your Angus seedstock supplier to channel production into licensed CAB feedlots. It may not be as simple as many producers would like, such as "signing up," because it is a long-term process. There are no commitments other than the ones you make because of market forces. The Certified Angus Beef™ (CAB®) carcass target is generally the highest value and most logical product target for most cattle that are of at least 50% Angus genetics.
How do I certify my Angus herd?
No herds are "certified" and no living animals are actually "Certified Angus Beef." That is the trademark for Angus beef product that, after meeting the live specification of being at least 51% black-hided, the U.S. Department of Agriculture verifies as meeting eight carcass specifications. The most difficult carcass specification to meet is a quality grade of middle Choice or higher. Last year, some 9 million fed cattle that appeared to be Angus-type were evaluated at the 32 licensed CAB® processing plants across the U.S., and 1.9 million of those cattle had carcasses that met the specs and became CAB® product. The owners of those cattle at the time of sale to packers realized a premium if they sold them through some form of value-based marketing.
The CAB Program promotes using 50% Angus genetics, but it does not REQUIRE Angus genetics. The only live requirement is that they are 51% black-hided.
MrBilly
Well-known member
Don't feel bad. The CAB cattle MUST have 51% black hide. Where do you think that black color comes from? White or red cattle? There must be some Angus in their to get the black hide. Same with the black Simmental, they just didn't happen to become black, they got the black hide from the Angus breed, and then bred them to their proportional specs.
Billy :cboy:
Billy :cboy:
cowgal":1mw5de7x said:
I think there are only two programs that require at least 50% angus genetics. One is the Certified Red Angus and the other is Angus America.
Although the qualifications for all of these USDA programs are available on the web, perception is reality if people don't check them out.
dun
Well, the black comes from the Angus, but I would rather pay $ for a purple polka-dotted steer that has at least 50% Angus or Red Angus genetics. I am not saying there's anything in the world wrong with other breeds or heinz 57's, but if I am paying for Angus I WANT to taste Angus!
OP
OP
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
cowgal":1gaj5ogl said:
Believe it or not, most of the original black Simmentals came from HOLSTEINS. When the semen came to the states, there were very few beef producers artifically breeding, so they went to the dairies & provided the semen and contracted all the heifer calves. Black gene is a dominant gene & passes on easily. There are many black Simmentals that may go back 30 years before you find any Angus genes. Now tell me how much influence the Angus has on these cattle. Black hide does not prove anything. The proof is when they pull the hide off. The AAA website said, "Last year, 9 million fed cattle that appeared to be Angus-type were evaluated at the 32 licensed CAB processing plants across the US, and 1.9 million of those cattle had carcasses that met the specs and became CAB product." That's 21% graded well enough to pass. Not very good %. I don't think the MAJORITY of the 9 mill were "other breeds"
Jeanne - Simme Valley":1337dm48 said:
Interesting. I don't understand, though what you mean by "other breeds" I think you are being polite.
Is it something to the effect of great marketing for a bogus product? Or are you saying that the black angus influenced cattle didn't grade the "way they should"?
So, what does CAB do with lower grading carcasses? Do they sell under the same label?
OP
OP
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
I'm not trying to say anything other that only 1.9 mill qualified out of 9 mill. That's AAA's report - not mine. I guess I wouldn't be real proud of that unless they are trying to impress the idea that they are very STRICK with their requirements.
The statement about too much Brahman genes, was in the "unknowledgeable" article that was all wrong. They were testing cattle that had passed the CAB program and were finding less Angus genes than they PERCEIVED should be in the carcasses. They are a company that is trying to sell their testing program so they came up with an outrageous news report to get noticed. This article was in the Wall Street Journal, besides other places.
Angus cattle & Jersey do quality grade quite well. But, so do the Simmental and probably many other breeds. The BIGGEST factor on whether an animal grades - is the feeding & management program. Well, at least that's what I think. But, who am I?
The statement about too much Brahman genes, was in the "unknowledgeable" article that was all wrong. They were testing cattle that had passed the CAB program and were finding less Angus genes than they PERCEIVED should be in the carcasses. They are a company that is trying to sell their testing program so they came up with an outrageous news report to get noticed. This article was in the Wall Street Journal, besides other places.
Angus cattle & Jersey do quality grade quite well. But, so do the Simmental and probably many other breeds. The BIGGEST factor on whether an animal grades - is the feeding & management program. Well, at least that's what I think. But, who am I?
Well, the Brahman breeders should like to hear that! The more times I read over this thread, the better I think I understand. Still, I don't want any stringy buffalo meat! How do Holsteis grade, do you think?
