Catching a wild bull

[jbar]

cowdog,cowdog,cowdog, maybe you sould call someone with a good cowdog.

 

[Wild Cattle]

Wewild, you are a good cowman I can tell. I am sorry that you thought I was bashing that was not my intent. I like Limi cows when they are well broke and handle well, they make some nice calves. But they are a little different.

My granddad always said there is more difference within a breed than between breeds, and I have always agreed with that. Good cattle are just that, good cattle, I look for a certain type and don't care what breed it is.

The biggest problem with the calf in this post is its owner, we have so many people today that are buying cattle and they are not prepared for all that can happen. What would have happened if the calf had jumped outside the pasture.....He would have called someone like me or you to fix his problem, and we would each in his own way.

 

[Brandonm22]

cowdog,cowdog,cowdog, maybe you sould call someone with a good cowdog.

Well a good cowdog with somebody who knows what he is doing, or somebody who knows what he is doing with a good horse and lassoe, or somebody who knows what he is doing with an ATV and a set of portable pens, or somebody who knows what he is doing with a good tranq gun can solve this rogue 600 lb calf problem real quick. The key is finding somebody who knows what he is doing!!

 

[pdfangus]

A friend of mine who works a lot of cattle every day told me a while back that he had figured out how to determine which were gelbvigh crosses and which were limousine crosses.

He said the gelbvigh croses would kick you right in the chest and the Limousine crosses would usually kick high enough that they kicked over your head.

That is a joke son...

I have been an angus breeder for over 35 years. Some angus can get hot. I had one angus cow knock a 1400 lb appendix gelding right out from under me once. I have even seen a few tough herefords in my day. but they are the exceptions rather than the rules.

In my experience herd disposition is a factor of environment. Cattle that seldom see people are wilder. Cattle that are handled rough are rough. cattle that see folks regular and are handled quiet are pretty good to get along with. a cow herd generally reflects the disposition of the folks that work with them the most. range cattle don't get worked as much as eastern cattle so there is a little difference there.

Inquired of select Sires a few years back about the disposition of a new young bull from a big name outfit out west. They told me it was to early to tell and I asked for clarification. they told me that he had not seen a man on foot til he got to Plain city and it would take a while for him to stop climbing the walls. Turned into a very good bull for them.

Generally cross bred cattle are a little hotter than straight bred cattle. I can not explain it but have only observed it over my life. When I was a kid the charolais were tough. Their breeders have worked wonders with disposition and birth weight. The Limousine crosses and chianina crosses that I have worked have been a little hotter than average. I think the chianina could almost fly. great takeoff but not enough wing span. Have had a few brahma crosses make life interesting, most of them had some gertrude in em.

Like some one else said earlier there are generally as many differences within a breed as there are between breeds. disposition is usually a managment disease.

but something that exhibited poor disposition would not be a candidate for reproduction in my herd. I have an orphan calf this year. I have been feeding him for several months now. Nice looking calf and has a good pedigree. Will be one of my larger bull calves but he will make a nice steer becasue he is very flighty even though I have fed him every day. I just don't need the agravation.

 

[dun]

Something that I've alwasy gotten a chuckle out of is that anything negative about any breed is bashing but the positive stuff is just supporting the breed. We all have different ecperiences and that's all we can go by, not by what the nighbors uncles breothers neighbor has experienced. The few lims that I've worked with were nuts, some of them as little as last year, charolais, as recent as 2 years ago had too much calving problems for my taste. Braunviehs have been poor mothers and hard calvers, Gerts and Brahmans if worked calmly have been a real pleasure to deal with. The list goes on. The point is, those have been my experiences, that's all I can base judgement on. There are breeds that I would own, some I wouldn;t touch with a long stick.

 

[pdfangus]

Something that I've alwasy gotten a chuckle out of is that anything negative about any breed is bashing but the positive stuff is just supporting the breed. We all have different ecperiences and that's all we can go by, not by what the nighbors uncles breothers neighbor has experienced. The few lims that I've worked with were nuts, some of them as little as last year, charolais, as recent as 2 years ago had too much calving problems for my taste. Braunviehs have been poor mothers and hard calvers, Gerts and Brahmans if worked calmly have been a real pleasure to deal with. The list goes on. The point is, those have been my experiences, that's all I can base judgement on. There are breeds that I would own, some I wouldn;t touch with a long stick.

I pretty much agree.

the toughest herd of cattle i ever dealt with was a breed that normally is noted for docility, belted Galloways. to tag those calves we roped em out of the back of a pickup and reeled em in and never stopped the truck cause mama would join you in the bed of the truck if you stopped. But they were hardy and easy calvers and prolific. I am sure it was the way the herd was handled but they were tough.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Something that I've alwasy gotten a chuckle out of is that anything negative about any breed is bashing but the positive stuff is just supporting the breed. We all have different ecperiences and that's all we can go by, not by what the nighbors uncles breothers neighbor has experienced. The few lims that I've worked with were nuts, some of them as little as last year, charolais, as recent as 2 years ago had too much calving problems for my taste. Braunviehs have been poor mothers and hard calvers, Gerts and Brahmans if worked calmly have been a real pleasure to deal with. The list goes on. The point is, those have been my experiences, that's all I can base judgement on. There are breeds that I would own, some I wouldn;t touch with a long stick.

There are some ranches west of here that are large. Some cattle on those ranches only see humans a couple of times a year. The cattle are nuts, no matter what breed they are or mix thereof. If a cow goes down with calving problems, you'll find a pile of bones. I was punching some out of the brush once and found a dead cow tangled in wire, hung up in the cedars. No way to get a horse or ATV through that brush on the escarpments. The owner didn't know how many head he had except for a SWAG when he put out hay and hid in the brush to see how many came out to eat. It is no way to manage things from my perspective. It is not one of those things I'd like to "help" out on come time to work cattle again either.

My point is, any breed can be workable or any breed can be nuts. Some breeds are more prone to be problems. I prefer low maintenance breeds that are suited for my climate. One wild cow can stir the whole bunch and the "low maintenance" part is out the window. Cull the really wild ones. Just give a few cubes and call them when you change pastures. The only problem will be new born calves that run the fences because they haven't learned the routines.

 

[Beef11]

there is more difference within a breed than between breeds

I can't figure out how this statement can be true.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

there is more difference within a breed than between breeds

I can't figure out how this statement can be true.

heard it said alot.. seem like it's quoted
different every time. that's why i dont use it, fraid it'll come out wrong

 

[CattleHand]

Boy this thread got off topic. I agree with who ever said more difference within the breed than between breeds. You can't predict the behavior off the breed with out seeing the cow though every breed has its typical behavior patterns.

But back to the topic, did yo get the bull calf in? Taking it slow should do it. If you jump in there and try to run the truck up his ass you wont have any luck.

 

[jpierce512]

I would not recomend using the tranqulizer gun. I'm sure people have had some good luck, but myself on the advice of someone used one once on a "wild" heifer and it killed her were she laid.

I double checked and the dose was correct, I never did find out why she died. But I will never use one again I would rather use dogs or hire a cowboy.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I would not recomend using the tranqulizer gun. I'm sure people have had some good luck, but myself on the advice of someone used one once on a "wild" heifer and it killed her were she laid.

I double checked and the dose was correct, I never did find out why she died. But I will never use one again I would rather use dogs or hire a cowboy.

ive seen it react different on certain one's i think it is a combination of things, wrong weight guess,or just the chemistry of the animal itself .seen some that take more than one shot to bring down and some that you think should take more go out like a light.

 

[dun]

I would not recomend using the tranqulizer gun. I'm sure people have had some good luck, but myself on the advice of someone used one once on a "wild" heifer and it killed her were she laid.

I double checked and the dose was correct, I never did find out why she died. But I will never use one again I would rather use dogs or hire a cowboy.

ive seen it react different on certain one's i think it is a combination of things, wrong weight guess,or just the chemistry of the animal itself .seen some that take more than one shot to bring down and some that you think should take more go out like a light.

The last lim on the place took 6 darts to slow her down, she weighed about 850. The next day the same dosage on a 1600 lb simmenthal, they just wanted to slow her down, dropped her like a rock in her tracks. The vet doing the shooting has been doing it for many years. I think unpredictable is an understatment.

 

[Beef11]

there is more difference within a breed than between breeds

So consistent calves are more likely to come from mongrels?
If you breed two purebred angus you are likely to end up with a hereford looking calf?
The fact that a breed is made up of animals with a similar set of genes resulting in a less similar calf?
Linebreeding, crossbreeding, inbreeding and outcrossing result in what?



My wives tale sirens started blaring when i read that quote. I would love a shred of scientific evidence on this.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

there is more difference within a breed than between breeds

So consistent calves are more likely to come from mongrels?
If you breed two purebred angus you are likely to end up with a hereford looking calf?
The fact that a breed is made up of animals with a similar set of genes resulting in a less similar calf?
Linebreeding, crossbreeding, inbreeding and outcrossing result in what?



My wives tale sirens started blaring when i read that quote. I would love a shred of scientific evidence on this.

ive also heard... there is more>> variation <<within a breed than between which i think probably more accurate

 

[Wild Cattle]

Beef11....sorry I was talking over your head, no need to get mad, just think about it for a moment and it might make sense.


If you look at the best and worst in a breed or the best and worst in a traite in a breed,,,There will be more differance within that breed... than between the best or average comparision between two differant breeds.

or

If you line up 4 really nice bulls of 4 differant breeds they will look rather simular or at least close.
If you line up 4 bulls of the same breed that run from as good as it gets down to the worst in that breed there will be a huge differance in those bulls.

Thus the falicy of sugesting a "breed" is the best or better for some reason. A breed is a large collection of animals that range from really good to really bad. But a good quality bull or cow is just that, a good one. That must always come first then the breed can follow.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Thus the falicy of sugesting a "breed" is the best or better for some reason.

Are you sure you are from Texas? :shock: :shock:

If so, you ought to know darn well some breeds are going to wean extremely light calves because of the heat here. Those cold climate breeds are simply not suited for our environment. We get around it by calving in the fall but it simply becomes a burden. Heck, horn flies have been really bad for over three weeks now. You know which breeds are more tolerant.

We pick breeds for a reason. If I was in a different climate, I could probably follow closer to market demands versus practicality.

The second thing that bothers me is "I have 10 or 12" hands statement. Which is it? LOL when I had 87, I knew the specific number. Granted you may have a couple of intermittent hands, but the way you stated that makes it seem like you're just shooting from the hip. No big deal but it makes me question your integrity.

 

[Wewild]

Something that I've alwasy gotten a chuckle out of is that anything negative about any breed is bashing but the positive stuff is just supporting the breed. We all have different ecperiences and that's all we can go by, not by what the nighbors uncles breothers neighbor has experienced. The few lims that I've worked with were nuts, some of them as little as last year, charolais, as recent as 2 years ago had too much calving problems for my taste. Braunviehs have been poor mothers and hard calvers, Gerts and Brahmans if worked calmly have been a real pleasure to deal with. The list goes on. The point is, those have been my experiences, that's all I can base judgement on. There are breeds that I would own, some I wouldn;t touch with a long stick.

Good post.

It really comes down to miss information when someone say "they or it is the worse". Some folks may believe what was said, some might not and others will know better. The latter having a broader base of expierence for evaulation.

It's just like the ford /chevy thing. It don't mean nothing. We had a ford frame crack on us on a 72 model. We had an 88 model with a 460 that sucked gas but was a hoss. We got a 99 model 7.3 turbo that pulls up stumps. i like my chevy's.

Use what you think works for you and drive the same. Be happy for the folks that my not see it like you as it is their money not yours.

When it comes to something important that may affect you and yours then fight for what you deem is right.

 

[Wild Cattle]

backhoe...I agree with your statement and your are correct, there are always regional issues that will put certain breeds at an advantage for a certain area. That was not what I was refering to.

I have seen the question asked on these boards...What is the best breed to use on my cows? And the answers come breed x,y,and z. I believe the answer should be a type of bull not a breed, because I have seen, for example, Angus bulls that were as good as I have ever seen and as bad as I have ever seen, so the breed its self is not the answer. Just my thoughts....

I do run a daywork crew out here and I try to keep at least 12 hands on my call list for jobs. But those younger boys are always moving around or taking full time jobs and the number changes. A rancher can call and say I need you to bring 2 men or 12 men, to work his place and I bring what he says.

Horn flyes were really bad up here last year, no sign of them yet and I am glad, up here I can use a straight British cow if I want, and they will work, very different country than where you are from.

 

[dun]

I have seen the question asked on these boards...What is the best breed to use on my cows? And the answers come breed x,y,and z. I believe the answer should be a type of bull not a breed, because I have seen, for example, Angus bulls that were as good as I have ever seen and as bad as I have ever seen, so the breed its self is not the answer. Just my thoughts....

When a specific breed is mentioned in a reply, generally it's because an individual raises that breed and like them or because they attributes of a specific breed and what it can contribute via heterosis is being considered. It's easier to find a leaner higher milking Gelbvieh then it is a Hereford or longhorn. If breed complimentary wasn;t an issue there wouldn;t be different breeds. You may be able to find a real heavy miliing line of Herefords, but the average isn;t going to milk as heavy as a Gelbvieh. I'm just using those breeds and traits as a comparison because the general traits of a breed exist.