Catching a wild bull

[ALACOWMAN]

backhoe...I agree with your statement and your are correct, there are always regional issues that will put certain breeds at an advantage for a certain area. That was not what I was refering to.

I have seen the question asked on these boards...What is the best breed to use on my cows? And the answers come breed x,y,and z. I believe the answer should be a type of bull not a breed, because I have seen, for example, Angus bulls

• >>>that were as good as I have ever seen and as bad as I have ever seen, so the breed its self is not the answer.<<< Just my thoughts....

I do run a daywork crew out here and I try to keep at least 12 hands on my call list for jobs. But those younger boys are always moving around or taking full time jobs and the number changes. A rancher can call and say I need you to bring 2 men or 12 men, to work his place and I bring what he says.

Horn flyes were really bad up here last year, no sign of them yet and I am glad, up here I can use a straight British cow if I want, and they will work, very different country than where you are from.

bingo ;-)

 

[Beef11]

Beef11....sorry I was talking over your head, no need to get mad, just think about it for a moment and it might make sense.


If you look at the best and worst in a breed or the best and worst in a traite in a breed,,,There will be more differance within that breed... than between the best or average comparision between two differant breeds.

or

If you line up 4 really nice bulls of 4 differant breeds they will look rather simular or at least close.
If you line up 4 bulls of the same breed that run from as good as it gets down to the worst in that breed there will be a huge differance in those bulls.

Thus the falicy of sugesting a "breed" is the best or better for some reason. A breed is a large collection of animals that range from really good to really bad. But a good quality bull or cow is just that, a good one. That must always come first then the breed can follow.

If thats not apples to oranges then i don't know what is. The fact remains that cattle within a breed are far closer genetically to each other than to cattle of other breeds. Therefore there will be FAR LESS VARIATION among them. Read your original statement, it doesn't say "If you compare the average of one breed to the best and worst of another". Breeds have strengths, tendencies and characteristics as well as standards because they are more similar than to each other than other breeds. If needs be i can draw you a picture.

 

[Wild Cattle]

Please draw me the picture......


Its the big picture, that I am talking about.....

A man that looks at alot of cattle in a year will have a different perspective than someone that only see's his own and his neighbors.....

There are a bunch of very poor quality cattle out there, of all breeds.

I think we should be trying to help people learn what to cull and what to keep, and why.

And not arguing about my breed is better than yours.

 

[pdfangus]

Yeah I wanna see yo crayola rendition as well.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

as long as there's breeders, there's gonna be genetic variation{ diversity} within a breed.hell we see it every day

 

[Beef11]

as long as there's breeders, there's gonna be genetic variation{ diversity} within a breed.be nice we see it every day

True enough, I'll be the first one to say there will be differences among cattle of the same breed. Take the first standard deviation from each breed on a group of traits and there will be less variation within the breed than across breeds. Comparing the mean of one breed to the range of another will never yield accurate results in a head to head comparison.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

as long as there's breeders, there's gonna be genetic variation{ diversity} within a breed.be nice we see it every day

True enough, I'll be the first one to say there will be differences among cattle of the same breed. Take the first standard deviation from each breed on a group of traits and there will be less variation within the breed than across breeds. Comparing the mean of one breed to the range of another will never yield accurate results in a head to head comparison.

i think most folks realise that though, that's why i take the statement with a grain of salt... i think the most constant genetically speaking >>until recent years anyway. was the longhorn.. aside from the color

 

[Brandonm22]

The fact remains that cattle within a breed are far closer genetically to each other than to cattle of other breeds. Therefore there will be FAR LESS VARIATION among them.

I don't know if I agree with that. Take Hereford for example. There are powerfly built, heavily muscled, large birth weight, extremely high frame cattle in the breed and there are frame score 000 minis in the breed. They may both be Herefords and trace their lineage to Anxiety the fourth but the similarity ends there. Weight, ADG, calving ease, etc will vary wildly within the breeds.

Now put Simmentals and Red Angus on the same farm and let the same breeder breed them for what he considers ideal phentype and after 20-30 years they look alike and perform alike even though their pedigrees do not overlap.

 

[Wild Cattle]

Brandonm22---you win the prise. That is what I am talking about, thanks.