calf layed down and will

[GMN]

Do you have a beef operation?

We have a dairy, plus outside income. Frequency of Vet visits vary, more frequent on a dairy than with a beef operation for sure. We can go for months without having to call a vet, but when we need one its good to have a good one to call.

GMN

Yes, I have a beef operation. This is the first time I considered raising milk cows because you can afford a vet. Are you showing a profit?

Now I think you are just being sarcastic-bye for now

GMN

 

[rockridgecattle]

randiliana...please don't take this personal as this is not only directed at you. Most of us are in business to make money so we can make an honest living, or at least pay for the items, or people we owe, to survive. I do earn over six figures. I have the cash to pay a vet but not from the ranch. However, in todays economy, I am having doubts any rancher, other than specialized ranchers such as Karen (previous post), or someone that inherited land, can afford to pay a vet and show a profit. We can arrange words (or ideas) all we want when posting, but no cash is going to appear because of our arranged words. Therefore, shouldn't you consider finances become recommending to "call a vet"? If I cannot afford a vet, who can besides specialized ranchers and land inheritors?

I CAN! for pete sakes. Why can i? Because i budget for it. I plan on certain expenses through out the year. We plan out our budget just before we sell in the fall. Then we know how many live animals we have and what the market looks like. We always go low on the budget. Anything else is gravy. We take into consideration loan payments, expenses such as twine fuel etc. We plan for the vet expense just like fuel or twine. We allow a certain amount for tags, vaccincations, calving problems, deworming, and a bottle of LA200. AND WE PRETTY MUCH STICK TO OUR BUDGET. For us, when there is a problem with cows, the call is FREE. ADVICE IS FREE. Because we support our vet through buying our vaccines and tags. We choose low birth weight bulls and easy calvers so we do not have to have c sections. I think 3 in 15 years is pretty good average. All c sections live calf and live cow.
We base our budget on the low end of calf prices. If the average for that year is 600 an animal, I will probably budget on 500 and animal. This year we will base our budget on the even lower end of prices.

I look at a vet expense like i look at fuel to run the tractors, twine to make bales, fertilzer to grow the forages. If I were to apply your vet cost analogy to the rest of the farm expenses then i could not afford twine, or fuel or fertlizer.

 

[HerefordSire]

I CAN! for pete sakes. Why can i? Because i budget for it. I plan on certain expenses through out the year. We plan out our budget just before we sell in the fall. Then we know how many live animals we have and what the market looks like. We always go low on the budget. Anything else is gravy. We take into consideration loan payments, expenses such as twine fuel etc. We plan for the vet expense just like fuel or twine. We allow a certain amount for tags, vaccincations, calving problems, deworming, and a bottle of LA200. AND WE PRETTY MUCH STICK TO OUR BUDGET. For us, when there is a problem with cows, the call is FREE. ADVICE IS FREE. Because we support our vet through buying our vaccines and tags. We choose low birth weight bulls and easy calvers so we do not have to have c sections. I think 3 in 15 years is pretty good average. All c sections live calf and live cow.
We base our budget on the low end of calf prices. If the average for that year is 600 an animal, I will probably budget on 500 and animal. This year we will base our budget on the even lower end of prices.

I look at a vet expense like i look at fuel to run the tractors, twine to make bales, fertilzer to grow the forages. If I were to apply your vet cost analogy to the rest of the farm expenses then i could not afford twine, or fuel or fertlizer.

I understand what you are saying rockridgecattle but I am very frugal. Maybe I should ask what is in my budget that is not in yours. I have a low interest land mortgage, cattle payments, and tractor payments. Do you?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Herefordsire - this is getting old. So you are not willing to budget a vet. That's your business. Real cattle people have a good understanding of health issues and handle most problems on their own. But, when something comes up that we cannot diagnose ourselves, we call a vet - whether it's just a call or a visit. I am willing to pay the costs to save a life that is worth lots more than the call. We don't all raise bottom end cull cattle that can't pay for the vet.
Yes, you may run more cows than me, but evidently my cows net me more per head than yours. So, not everyone is in your dire situation, making 6 figures off the farm. Get off your high horse.
Vets can actually SAVE you money - getting a proper diagnosis rather than chasing every drug around.

 

[hillsdown]

Do you have a beef operation?

We have a dairy, plus outside income. Frequency of Vet visits vary, more frequent on a dairy than with a beef operation for sure. We can go for months without having to call a vet, but when we need one its good to have a good one to call.

GMN

Yes, I have a beef operation. This is the first time I considered raising milk cows because you can afford a vet. Are you showing a profit?

Now this is the funniest and stupidest post I have read in a very long time..LMFAO>>>> :lol2: : :lol:

 

[HerefordSire]

Herefordsire - this is getting old. So you are not willing to budget a vet. That's your business. Real cattle people have a good understanding of health issues and handle most problems on their own. But, when something comes up that we cannot diagnose ourselves, we call a vet - whether it's just a call or a visit. I am willing to pay the costs to save a life that is worth lots more than the call. We don't all raise bottom end cull cattle that can't pay for the vet.
Yes, you may run more cows than me, but evidently my cows net me more per head than yours. So, not everyone is in your dire situation, making 6 figures off the farm. Get off your high horse.
Vets can actually SAVE you money - getting a proper diagnosis rather than chasing every drug around.

Thanks for your reply Jeanne - Simme Valley. The issue is not me willing to budget for a vet. I am willing, but the margins are not there. I am trying to determine if it may be a newbie issue, as in me just starting out the last several years, buying land (almost 5 years ago), cattle, tractor, etc. and the ones recommending to "call a vet" are specialized, maybe like you (or Karen) with more margin, or those that inherited land. Allow me to be more clear, I lose money on the farm without a vet bill. All income I generate is off-farm.

 

[HerefordSire]

Do you have a beef operation?

We have a dairy, plus outside income. Frequency of Vet visits vary, more frequent on a dairy than with a beef operation for sure. We can go for months without having to call a vet, but when we need one its good to have a good one to call.

GMN

Yes, I have a beef operation. This is the first time I considered raising milk cows because you can afford a vet. Are you showing a profit?

Now this is the funniest and stupidest post I have read in a very long time..LMFAO>>>> :lol2: : :lol:

Thanks for your reply hillsdown. Why was it funny? Why was it stupid?

 

[rockridgecattle]

low interest mortgage, and cattle payments and machinery payments. Up until this year truck payments, on an older truck.
They come off the top.
Then we plan the budget
-First fuel
-hay making
-seeding if we are seeding some grain to cover an alfalfa field...if not enough $ the field goes into summer fallow again...realizing only small fields.
-vet expense
-machinery repairs and oil changes, that down to a science, and since hubby does all his repairs unless it involves hydraulic pumps and fuel pumps, which he takes off and takes to a shop to do. Hubby does all his own repairs, welding, fixing. We have even left a not so used tractor when it broke down cause we could not afford to fix it that year. Used another working old tractor in it's place. Fixed the broken tractor the next year.
insurance and taxes
Then if hubby wants to buy a piece of machinery, like say this years purchase was a cattle trailer, we have to have the cash for it or it does not get bought.
Everything is paid in cash, or credit card and paid off...usually
I have an off farm job that pays our living expenses such as they are. We live in a run down mobile home, but it keeps us warm and dry. Our cars are '92 dodge ram truck and '98 rav, both just paid off. Our newest tractor is a 1970 something case. The only peice of machinery that is in the 21 century is our haybine.
We bought our herd at market bred cow prices from the inlaws and from a breeder guy the year before BSE hit in high cattle prices. When we were to sell the first crop, BSE had hit and the market has tanked ever since. We bought all the machinery, equipment the inlaws had at market price, no deals there.
We work within our means as best we can. We do not live rich, we work like mad to stay afloat, and we have diversefied like crazy to keep ahead of the game.
Cows alone can not make it. I will conscede that. An off farm job to live, or diversefy is in order. But what we pay in extra vet expense would not get us much in extra grocieries.
By extra vet, i mean over and above vaccines, deworm, tags, and calving supplies, preg and semen checking.

 

[hillsdown]

HS if you are not making a profit in beef you will for sure not make one in dairy. Also dairy is WAY different than beef, especially if you have high producing cattle. Believe me there is not a good dairy around that does not have a vet on speed dial..

Now I am out of this as it is becoming redundant. :wave:

 

[HerefordSire]

low interest mortgage, and cattle payments and machinery payments. Up until this year truck payments, on an older truck.
They come off the top.
Then we plan the budget
-First fuel
-hay making
-seeding if we are seeding some grain to cover an alfalfa field...if not enough $ the field goes into summer fallow again...realizing only small fields.
-vet expense
-machinery repairs and oil changes, that down to a science, and since hubby does all his repairs unless it involves hydraulic pumps and fuel pumps, which he takes off and takes to a shop to do. Hubby does all his own repairs, welding, fixing. We have even left a not so used tractor when it broke down cause we could not afford to fix it that year. Used another working old tractor in it's place. Fixed the broken tractor the next year.
insurance and taxes
Then if hubby wants to buy a piece of machinery, like say this years purchase was a cattle trailer, we have to have the cash for it or it does not get bought.
Everything is paid in cash, or credit card and paid off...usually
I have an off farm job that pays our living expenses such as they are. We live in a run down mobile home, but it keeps us warm and dry. Our cars are '92 dodge ram truck and '98 rav, both just paid off. Our newest tractor is a 1970 something case. The only peice of machinery that is in the 21 century is our haybine.
We bought our herd at market bred cow prices from the inlaws and from a breeder guy the year before BSE hit in high cattle prices. When we were to sell the first crop, BSE had hit and the market has tanked ever since. We bought all the machinery, equipment the inlaws had at market price, no deals there.
We work within our means as best we can. We do not live rich, we work like mad to stay afloat, and we have diversefied like crazy to keep ahead of the game.
Cows alone can not make it. I will conscede that. An off farm job to live, or diversefy is in order. But what we pay in extra vet expense would not get us much in extra grocieries.
By extra vet, i mean over and above vaccines, deworm, tags, and calving supplies, preg and semen checking.

rockridgecattle...thank-you for sharing your personal experiences. I really appreciate you. I would say we are close enough on expense categories such that there is no fundamental advantage either way between my operation and yours. This makes me go to the top line. Last calves I sold were for $400 average close to 205 days old. Your average receipt must be higher than mine then, unless our financed acreage is different, etc.

 

[HerefordSire]

HS if you are not making a profit in beef you will for sure not make one in dairy. Also dairy is WAY different than beef, especially if you have high producing cattle. Believe me there is not a good dairy around that does not have a vet on speed dial..

Now I am out of this as it is becoming redundant. :wave:

Thanks for letting me know hillsdown. I had no idea milk production has less margins than beef producton. I wonder how a dairy farm pays for the vet if there are less margins than beef production?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

$400 average close to 205 days old

That's your problem. It takes $400 + (in most cases) to keep a cow year round.
I probably have bigger cows than you have (average about 1600#), yrly expense is $471 - but my STEERS bring me anywhere from $600 - $800 easily off the farm direct to a feedlot after preconditioning (which these expenses are put towards the cows).

 

[rockridgecattle]

Steers average was 557.25 Born march april sold end of oct average weight 526#
Hiefers average 409.63 Same birthdate and sale date. average weight 420# 5 of the calves were 330- 450#. They brought the average down The rest averaged about 500# . Normally they would have stayed back but with the lack of hay we had to make some hard choices this year. And we kept back 12 of the best hiefers to hopefully breed if we have the hay to keep them. Still 10-12 weeks before we see grass.
Our weights were down by about 100# average due to the severe flooding over the summer

All calves are pre weaned vaccinated, dewormed, and cows are on the pfizer pre breeding program.

 

[rockridgecattle]

It takes $400 + (in most cases) to keep a cow year round.
I probably have bigger cows than you have (average about 1600#), yrly expense is $471 - but my STEERS bring me anywhere from $600 - $800 easily off the farm direct to a feedlot after preconditioning (which these expenses are put towards the cows).

Jeanne is right on the cost to keep a cow. Here it si $475 before loans and depreciation of equipment and living expenses. Add that in and it is well over $700 an animal with no off farm income. (manitoba ag numbers)

 

[HerefordSire]

$400 average close to 205 days old

That's your problem. It takes $400 + (in most cases) to keep a cow year round.
I probably have bigger cows than you have (average about 1600#), yrly expense is $471 - but my STEERS bring me anywhere from $600 - $800 easily off the farm direct to a feedlot after preconditioning (which these expenses are put towards the cows).

Thanks for sharing Jeanne - Simme Valley. Does your yearly expense of $471 per cow includes professional medical services? What weight are you sending your steers to the feedlot? Do you retain all your heifers?

 

[randiliana]

Well, HS, I can't afford not to use a vet. Costs me close to $500 to keep a cow for a year. If she loses her calf or dies on me I just lost $500 (more or less) I can put a $50-$100 vet bill into an animal, and I may lose a couple hundered on her but at least she paid most of her way. Cull cows around here usually aren't worth more than $300. My steer calves last fall averaged $565 and heifers just around $500. Not making much money, that is for sure, but I make less on a dead animal. I (and DH) do the vast majority of the vet work around here, but there are circumstances when we find that the vet is awfully handy. Like I said in an earlier post, last year our total vet bill was just over $1500, on 150 head of cows, I don't think that is too crazy. Most of it went to vaccines and CCIA tags (which are mandatory here). Using the vet saves me money, cause I can call him if I need to know something, and his advice is FREE, I can then evaluate whether or not I need to have him look at the animal, or even whether or not I want to continue treating the animal.

I'm not going into the minutae of my cost per cow, but I know what my bottom line can afford, and cannot afford.

So each to their own, I won't say that we survive completely off our cow herd, but my casual job and DH's part time job certainly don't come close to paying all the bills.

Maybe you need to have another look at your bottom line and inputs if your cows aren't paying their own way......

 

[rockridgecattle]

Thanks for sharing Jeanne - Simme Valley. Does your yearly expense of $471 per cow includes professional medical services? What weight are you sending your steers to the feedlot? Do you retain all your heifers?

I'm in no way answering for Jeanne, but for us, yes. The numbers I quoted are from Manitoba Ag, but off the top of my head (memory). I could be off by a few $. As with any gov agency, they add in everything, but the kitchen sink. lol

 

[HerefordSire]

Steers average was 557.25 Born march april sold end of oct average weight 526#
Hiefers average 409.63 Same birthdate and sale date. average weight 420# 5 of the calves were 330- 450#. They brought the average down The rest averaged about 500# . Normally they would have stayed back but with the lack of hay we had to make some hard choices this year. And we kept back 12 of the best hiefers to hopefully breed if we have the hay to keep them. Still 10-12 weeks before we see grass.
Our weights were down by about 100# average due to the severe flooding over the summer

All calves are pre weaned vaccinated, dewormed, and cows are on the pfizer pre breeding program.

It looks like you averaged around $475 where I averaged around $400. That $75 difference obviously allows you to pay a vet. Surely I am not the only one having this issue.

 

[HerefordSire]

Well, HS, I can't afford not to use a vet. Costs me close to $500 to keep a cow for a year. If she loses her calf or dies on me I just lost $500 (more or less) I can put a $50-$100 vet bill into an animal, and I may lose a couple hundered on her but at least she paid most of her way. Cull cows around here usually aren't worth more than $300. My steer calves last fall averaged $565 and heifers just around $500. Not making much money, that is for sure, but I make less on a dead animal. I (and DH) do the vast majority of the vet work around here, but there are circumstances when we find that the vet is awfully handy. Like I said in an earlier post, last year our total vet bill was just over $1500, on 150 head of cows, I don't think that is too crazy. Most of it went to vaccines and CCIA tags (which are mandatory here). Using the vet saves me money, cause I can call him if I need to know something, and his advice is FREE, I can then evaluate whether or not I need to have him look at the animal, or even whether or not I want to continue treating the animal.

I'm not going into the minutae of my cost per cow, but I know what my bottom line can afford, and cannot afford.

So each to their own, I won't say that we survive completely off our cow herd, but my casual job and DH's part time job certainly don't come close to paying all the bills.

Maybe you need to have another look at your bottom line and inputs if your cows aren't paying their own way......

Well, the next thing I am wondering is all the commercial cattlemen selling to salebarns into price weakness. At our local salebarn I would guess about an average of 1,500-3,000 animals sell each week into similar prices and weights I to sell into. My inputs are as low as I can get them. They squeak for being a newbie. I agree the top line is my issue. But aren't most of us at the mercy of salebarns and have similar medical issues?

 

[dieselbeef]

im watchin this post cuz im on both sides..ive called the vet and paid for it outta my pocket not the ranches in order to keep one alive..but when it came to a 600$ c section it was cheaper to pay the 60 for the vet call and shoot it since we just didnt have the money. losing a producing cow for that really sucked. with 8 good yrs to go it was a loss but there just wasnt 600 avail..even in my house moneys