calf layed down and will

[HerefordSire]

I bet every one thinks I keep a gun handy at all times. :help:

Well :shock: other then a bunch of shots between the eyes for meat purposes. I can think of only twice giving the coup de grace to a critter. Both times calves. Once I noticed a small cold weather calf having trouble walking, checked it's feet, had the back two frozen. And I crushed a good doing calf between two big bales and broke the pelvis. Both cases bothered me a long while. As for Vets, I have a old veterinarian friend, doesn't go out to farms any more. He's an old cow man I ask his advice from time to time. Hard for me to imagine a situation in which I would need a Vet at the ranch. Haven't had one out in 15 years.

Hard for me to disagree with anything you are writing. What do you think your financial advantage or disadvantage is by not having a vet out in 15 years?

 

[CKC1586]

Looked at their user name and had to giggle a bit when in my mind I said well ..

CK, what you never heard of someone named fickic?

Nope. And yes I admit I may have a somewhat warped sense of humor.

 

[CKC1586]

Don't guess it matters much what anyone says, this person hasn't been on here since March 2, the day after the post. Looked at their user name and had to giggle a bit when in my mind I said well ....

can't blame em... have you reared back and looked at this thread...just soon watch a biscuit get hard

Ya, I know but really wasn't much information given to go on.
Maybe that name isn't pronounced the way my mind is saying it..... :?

 

[ga. prime]

Maybe that name isn't pronounced the way my mind is saying it..... :?

:lol2: Yes it is.

 

[mnmtranching]

I bet every one thinks I keep a gun handy at all times. :help:

Well :shock: other then a bunch of shots between the eyes for meat purposes. I can think of only twice giving the coup de grace to a critter. Both times calves. Once I noticed a small cold weather calf having trouble walking, checked it's feet, had the back two frozen. And I crushed a good doing calf between two big bales and broke the pelvis. Both cases bothered me a long while. As for Vets, I have a old veterinarian friend, doesn't go out to farms any more. He's an old cow man I ask his advice from time to time. Hard for me to imagine a situation in which I would need a Vet at the ranch. Haven't had one out in 15 years.

Hard for me to disagree with anything you are writing. What do you think your financial advantage or disadvantage is by not having a vet out in 15 years?

Vets are allowed to charge what ever they choose to assure they make decent profit. Cattle producers cannot, and are at the mercy of the markets. In the cattle business you have all these people to deal with and all figuring in a profit. From feed suppliers, truckers, pharmaceutical companies, parts and supply providers, fuel fertilizer, seed companies. Get the Idea? You got to eliminate what you can. That is if your interested in profit. And if you going to make it in the cattle business your going to need to do the vet work.
I think I've saved a fair amount of money, probably enough to take a major hunting trip once in a while. :cowboy: The important thing is I don't think I've lost a critter because a vet wasn't there.

 

[GMN]

[

HfSire - you'll have to forgive me in that I am not financially minded and I dont quite understand what you just said. I will say though, that being a uni student I dont have a heap of money, and yes I will be paying off those vet bills for the next six months. Thank God I have a good relationship with my vet and they are happy as long as I make regular payments and they know I will keep coming back to them. I've already admitted financially the IV and the prolapse did not make sense to go to the vet, but when you put a value on education, I think it was justified.[/quote]


Thats just it, with these hard economic times for farmers, the Vets are also struggling. Around here, they do not let you make payments, they expect the money asap.

Its hard to have a vet out when you know its gonna cost alot of $$ and you don't have the money. Ways to save money are taking the animal when possible to the clinic, only have them out for major items, birthing issues, proloapses, wierd things, what I consider a non vet call, would be anything related to baby calves. I have been down that road, taking heifers to the Vet, and I have found that if I can't save them they can't either. Just runs up a whole lot of money, and costs more than the animal is even worth. In a perfect world it would be great to have the Vet out for every little thing, but in these economic hardships, us Dairy farmers are experiencing right now, you have to be even smarter with your money, and pick and choose.

GMN

 

[dun]

Thats just it, with these hard economic times for farmers, the Vets are also struggling. Around here, they do not let you make payments, they expect the money asap.

Its hard to have a vet out when you know its gonna cost alot of $$ and you don't have the money. Ways to save money are taking the animal when possible to the clinic, only have them out for major items, birthing issues, proloapses, wierd things, what I consider a non vet call, would be anything related to baby calves. I have been down that road, taking heifers to the Vet, and I have found that if I can't save them they can't either. Just runs up a whole lot of money, and costs more than the animal is even worth. In a perfect world it would be great to have the Vet out for every little thing, but in these economic hardships, us Dairy farmers are experiencing right now, you have to be even smarter with your money, and pick and choose.

GMN

The further you are down the totem pole the worse it gets. Vets, feed dealers, feeders, etc. are all on hard times.

 

[HerefordSire]

Thanks for your reply GMN. I will give you a good example but I won't name any names. The last few days a courageuous young man with a family had a pregnant older than average cow down (12 years old?) that appeared to slip on ice and was due to calve any day. Although he communicated with the vet, I was under the impression, there was no actual visit for this instance. I could be wrong on this, but I don't think I am. I was also under the impression the young man did not have much experience in raising cattle. Anyway, he asked excellent questions to the board and he reported the progress relatively fast. He had many member posters waiting on the progress reports so they could offer help. He lost the cow by taking the cows life after doing everything he could. He temporarily saved the calf after the cow was deceased. On top of that, he even processed the meat. It sounded like he will receive a vet bill for other visits, but I don't think the vet will get one red cent out of his pocket for this one. This is exactly what I am referring to. Although he lost both animals, the same thing would have likely happened if the vet did everything, at least in my view. I think he saved a vet bill, obtained education without a vet bill, and has hamburger to boot. What more can one ask for?

 

[rusty]

HS,

I agree with you but there is a big differance between the two posters.The one who started this thread did not call a vet where the other did.How many people do you know who could do a csection on a cow with very little knowledge on how it's done? Most people that I know would not attempt to with a vet being present.But as I said he talked to a vet and took vets advice but not his help.He came here asking the boards help on how to do something not my calf is down what to do.How can you give advice without knowing details? If the orginal poster would of said calf down with busted leg or anything to go by we could possibly give opinion.Or called vet and they said vet said this or that what do you all think.I don't think people should give advice to people without knowing how much knowledge they have.I also don't call vet every time something happens but if I have no idea of what to do i'll call and get advice or have one come out.I don't depend on this board to take care of my cattle but I do like the advice you all give but without some idea of cattle what good is the advice?The money wasted is only wasted if you don't gain any knowledge from it.This will be my last post on this subject.You have your way and I have mine i'll not hold anything against you and expect the same from you.I agree to disagree.

 

[GMN]

Thanks for your reply GMN. I will give you a good example but I won't name any names. The last few days a courageuous young man with a family had a pregnant older than average cow down (12 years old?) that appeared to slip on ice and was due to calve any day. Although he communicated with the vet, I was under the impression, there was no actual visit for this instance. I could be wrong on this, but I don't think I am. I was also under the impression the young man did not have much experience in raising cattle. Anyway, he asked excellent questions to the board and he reported the progress relatively fast. He had many member posters waiting on the progress reports so they could offer help. He lost the cow by taking the cows life after doing everything he could. He temporarily saved the calf after the cow was deceased. On top of that, he even processed the meat. It sounded like he will receive a vet bill for other visits, but I don't think the vet will get one red cent out of his pocket for this one. This is exactly what I am referring to. Although he lost both animals, the same thing would have likely happened if the vet did everything, at least in my view. I think he saved a vet bill, obtained education without a vet bill, and has hamburger to boot. What more can one ask for?

Now downer cows are difficult choices to make. Older cow, slipping on ice, probably did break something, chances of her getting up-slim, pregnant to boot.Hard to say, if I would have been in this place, I would have called the Vet to save the calf, because I would not have known how to do a C-section, or would have wanted to put the cow thru that without the proper pain medication. As for eating her, downer cows that have been down for even a day, the meat is not good, slimy and non edible. This would be a candidate for a Vet call in my opinion.

GMN

 

[CKC1586]

ficick.....what say you??

 

[HerefordSire]

Now downer cows are difficult choices to make. Older cow, slipping on ice, probably did break something, chances of her getting up-slim, pregnant to boot.Hard to say, if I would have been in this place, I would have called the Vet to save the calf, because I would not have known how to do a C-section, or would have wanted to put the cow thru that without the proper pain medication. As for eating her, downer cows that have been down for even a day, the meat is not good, slimy and non edible. This would be a candidate for a Vet call in my opinion.

GMN

That is my point. Any work that needs to be done medically on behalf of animals are a candidate for a vet.....but who can afford them with the current economy? If you can afford a vet, do you work an extra job? How can you afford it and I can't?

 

[randiliana]

HS,

I agree with you but there is a big differance between the two posters.The one who started this thread did not call a vet where the other did.How many people do you know who could do a csection on a cow with very little knowledge on how it's done? Most people that I know would not attempt to with a vet being present.But as I said he talked to a vet and took vets advice but not his help.He came here asking the boards help on how to do something not my calf is down what to do.How can you give advice without knowing details? If the orginal poster would of said calf down with busted leg or anything to go by we could possibly give opinion.Or called vet and they said vet said this or that what do you all think.I don't think people should give advice to people without knowing how much knowledge they have.I also don't call vet every time something happens but if I have no idea of what to do i'll call and get advice or have one come out.I don't depend on this board to take care of my cattle but I do like the advice you all give but without some idea of cattle what good is the advice?The money wasted is only wasted if you don't gain any knowledge from it.This will be my last post on this subject.You have your way and I have mine i'll not hold anything against you and expect the same from you.I agree to disagree.

This is probably one of the best posts I have seen on here. And is exactly what I (and probably most others) mean when they advise a call to the vet. Thank you for posting this.

 

[alacattleman]

ficick.....what say you??

my guess is he's so dam confused. that he no longer care's

 

[larryshoat]

HS,

I agree with you but there is a big differance between the two posters.The one who started this thread did not call a vet where the other did.How many people do you know who could do a csection on a cow with very little knowledge on how it's done? Most people that I know would not attempt to with a vet being present.But as I said he talked to a vet and took vets advice but not his help.He came here asking the boards help on how to do something not my calf is down what to do.How can you give advice without knowing details? If the orginal poster would of said calf down with busted leg or anything to go by we could possibly give opinion.Or called vet and they said vet said this or that what do you all think.I don't think people should give advice to people without knowing how much knowledge they have.I also don't call vet every time something happens but if I have no idea of what to do i'll call and get advice or have one come out.I don't depend on this board to take care of my cattle but I do like the advice you all give but without some idea of cattle what good is the advice?The money wasted is only wasted if you don't gain any knowledge from it.This will be my last post on this subject.You have your way and I have mine i'll not hold anything against you and expect the same from you.I agree to disagree.

This is probably one of the best posts I have seen on here. And is exactly what I (and probably most others) mean when they advise a call to the vet. Thank you for posting this.

I agree, for the most part it's all about management .So many times people don't even have the knowledge to sort the good advice from the bad, on the other hand I hear all to often where vets have done a poor job of diagnosing and treating a problem .

Larry

 

[GMN]

Now downer cows are difficult choices to make. Older cow, slipping on ice, probably did break something, chances of her getting up-slim, pregnant to boot.Hard to say, if I would have been in this place, I would have called the Vet to save the calf, because I would not have known how to do a C-section, or would have wanted to put the cow thru that without the proper pain medication. As for eating her, downer cows that have been down for even a day, the meat is not good, slimy and non edible. This would be a candidate for a Vet call in my opinion.

GMN

That is my point. Any work that needs to be done medically on behalf of animals are a candidate for a vet.....but who can afford them with the current economy? If you can afford a vet, do you work an extra job? How can you afford it and I can't?

I'm not saying I can afford it all the time, but sometimes there are instances where it can not be avoided, and then yes, the Vet gets paid when he gets paid, but he does get paid.

Its like anything else in this tight economy, there are just somethings you can not go without, when something comes up. You try to make the best choices, and go from there.

GMN

 

[HerefordSire]

Now downer cows are difficult choices to make. Older cow, slipping on ice, probably did break something, chances of her getting up-slim, pregnant to boot.Hard to say, if I would have been in this place, I would have called the Vet to save the calf, because I would not have known how to do a C-section, or would have wanted to put the cow thru that without the proper pain medication. As for eating her, downer cows that have been down for even a day, the meat is not good, slimy and non edible. This would be a candidate for a Vet call in my opinion.

GMN

That is my point. Any work that needs to be done medically on behalf of animals are a candidate for a vet.....but who can afford them with the current economy? If you can afford a vet, do you work an extra job? How can you afford it and I can't?

I'm not saying I can afford it all the time, but sometimes there are instances where it can not be avoided, and then yes, the Vet gets paid when he gets paid, but he does get paid.

Its like anything else in this tight economy, there are just somethings you can not go without, when something comes up. You try to make the best choices, and go from there.

GMN

I cannot afford a vet any time in this economy and make money. The margins are just not there. Therefore, every instance has to be avoided for me and I can afford not to call a vet. Where does your money come from to pay your vet...from your off-farm job?

 

[GMN]

GMN[/quote]

That is my point. Any work that needs to be done medically on behalf of animals are a candidate for a vet.....but who can afford them with the current economy? If you can afford a vet, do you work an extra job? How can you afford it and I can't?[/quote]

I'm not saying I can afford it all the time, but sometimes there are instances where it can not be avoided, and then yes, the Vet gets paid when he gets paid, but he does get paid.

Its like anything else in this tight economy, there are just somethings you can not go without, when something comes up. You try to make the best choices, and go from there.

GMN[/quote]

I cannot afford a vet any time in this economy and make money. The margins are just not there. Therefore, every instance has to be avoided for me and I can afford not to call a vet. Where does your money come from to pay your vet...from your off-farm job? [/quote]

Do you have a beef operation?

We have a dairy, plus outside income. Frequency of Vet visits vary, more frequent on a dairy than with a beef operation for sure. We can go for months without having to call a vet, but when we need one its good to have a good one to call.

GMN

 

[HerefordSire]

HS,

I agree with you but there is a big differance between the two posters.The one who started this thread did not call a vet where the other did.How many people do you know who could do a csection on a cow with very little knowledge on how it's done? Most people that I know would not attempt to with a vet being present.But as I said he talked to a vet and took vets advice but not his help.He came here asking the boards help on how to do something not my calf is down what to do.How can you give advice without knowing details? If the orginal poster would of said calf down with busted leg or anything to go by we could possibly give opinion.Or called vet and they said vet said this or that what do you all think.I don't think people should give advice to people without knowing how much knowledge they have.I also don't call vet every time something happens but if I have no idea of what to do i'll call and get advice or have one come out.I don't depend on this board to take care of my cattle but I do like the advice you all give but without some idea of cattle what good is the advice?The money wasted is only wasted if you don't gain any knowledge from it.This will be my last post on this subject.You have your way and I have mine i'll not hold anything against you and expect the same from you.I agree to disagree.

This is probably one of the best posts I have seen on here. And is exactly what I (and probably most others) mean when they advise a call to the vet. Thank you for posting this.

randiliana...please don't take this personal as this is not only directed at you. Most of us are in business to make money so we can make an honest living, or at least pay for the items, or people we owe, to survive. I do earn over six figures. I have the cash to pay a vet but not from the ranch. However, in todays economy, I am having doubts any rancher, other than specialized ranchers such as Karen (previous post), or someone that inherited land, can afford to pay a vet and show a profit. We can arrange words (or ideas) all we want when posting, but no cash is going to appear because of our arranged words. Therefore, shouldn't you consider finances become recommending to "call a vet"? If I cannot afford a vet, who can besides specialized ranchers and land inheritors?

 

[HerefordSire]

Do you have a beef operation?

We have a dairy, plus outside income. Frequency of Vet visits vary, more frequent on a dairy than with a beef operation for sure. We can go for months without having to call a vet, but when we need one its good to have a good one to call.

GMN

Yes, I have a beef operation. This is the first time I considered raising milk cows because you can afford a vet. Are you showing a profit?