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[hillbilly]

3 acres a cow. thats the most acre per cow ratio i have heard yet, assuming this is true, if i were to run say a cow per acre, (i have a around 150 to play with) would i need to feed excessively to make up for this ratio being so low. thanks

Mike it would be cheaper to Feed lot them if your going to do that. In your part of the world three acres per cow on fertilized land is still good land all open and be completely out of grass a couple years in ten. I would say more conservatively don't fertilize and run a cow to every four or five and spray for weeds instead of bushog.Is it fescue or bermuda?

I don't often disagree with Ollie, but I don't understand this no fertilizer approach. With 150 ac farm I would bring it all up to test and keep it there. I would do what I could to keep my fertilizer bill as low as possible
[clover] but even a high fert. bill on small acerage is less expendsive than under utilization.

Hillbilly

 

[Arnold Ziffle]

FWIW, (and I've never personally tested the theory/advice) much of what I've read corresponds to Frankie and Ollie's comments --- often times native grasses just do not respond with enough additional forage growth to justify the expense of fertilizing. Resting periods via rotational grazing are the best "medicine". I'd guess that there is a pretty wide array of native grasses avilable in various parts of the country, some of which respond to fertilization much better than others and, presumably, a good local county agent would be well informed on such matters. On the other hand it is pretty incredible what "improved" grasses such as Jiggs (bermuda), Tifton 85, etc. will do with proper fertilization (and timely rain!).

 

[okmike]

yes that ok state site is very helpful, i work with a guy that is part of the cattle association in norman so i'll try to get with him on some of that and what it takes to join. im hoping that to join doesnt have any requirements such as owning cattle ( just yet ). i think one of the main questions that i am wanting to know is that based on not knowing exactly what grass or soil i have scientifically, what would be a general ballpark estimate of how many cattle i can support on 150 acres in NE oklahoma. maybe knowing a number might help forecast what i'll need based on their grazing habits. thanks again everyone.

 

[lunker]

I'm 35 miles northeast of tulsa (right next to the turnpike between
adair and bigcabin)
3 acres/cow will be on an average or better year, unless your
going to get your hay from an outside source.

I would run less cows rather than fertilize,
You can lease 2 acres for what you pay to fertilize 1 acre.
lunker

 

[okmike]

what do you mean by getting hay from an outside source? because i also have an additional 50 acres that i believe can be cut twice a year ( again someone else might correct me there but i thought most people cut hay twice a year ) i thought that i would be feeding hay in the winter and letting them graze in the spring - summer, am i right on that or is that incorrect. so does having my own "hay only" pasture change any ideas from before. i warned everyone, i am as beginner as they come!

 

[fellersbarnoneranch]

so does having my own "hay only" pasture change any ideas from before

More ground is always a plus! 2 cuttings should give you a good source of hay when you need it. One of the keys in managing your cattle successfully is to not over-graze your pasture. Rotational grazing is a good way to utilize your grass efficiently--for this cross-fencing or a portable electric fence is needed. When it comes to hay, have you got plans on who will bale it or will you be doing it yourself? I have access to good quality hay at a fair price which frees up more of my ground for cattle use. For what it costs me to fertilize, spray for weeds, and pay a neighbor to bale it, I will usually come out ahead to just buy hay. Some will bale on shares, but you need a good producing hay meadow for that to work out in your favor if you've got very many cattle to winter. What do you plan on doing with your calves? If you sell them at weaning and don't have to winter all that many more--that raises the amount of producing animals you can winter and decreases the amount of hay you will need (some)

Another good source for information on rotational grazing is the Kerr Foundation who also does field days. The agency to contact about government $ is the USDA Farm Service Agency. They can tell you about the avaliable programs and what the qualifications are. Just remember to ask questions and read fine print if you want to go this direction. (i.e. when the Gov stocks your pond with fish "for free" any old Joe can come and fish on your place.)

 

[okmike]

as far as my plans go, i do have neighbors that will help with that, i do however want to in the future get my own equipment and handle and keep it all myself. as far as a good producing hay medow we have the best around, it looks like a wheat field and grows very well. as far as plans for calves goes i plan on selling them as im told thats where the money is at. thats why im pushing the idea of putting as many cows out there as possible. thanks for input fellersbarnone.

ps im in the chouteau area, i have heard of the bar none ranch, anyone working out there from the claremore?

 

[dun]

If you graze your hayfields/hay your pastures you won't have much of a net loss of nutrients in your hay fields. If you take all the manure from the hay and put it back on the field it came from you won't have much of a loss. But there will still be loss. It's surprising how many nutrients are removed from a field as hay. Buying outside hay is like getting free fertilizer. Problem is you can also get free invasive weeds.
A field that is strictly hayed will gradually loose hay quality/growth.

dun

 

[okmike]

that makes sense, i didnt see it that way.

 

[ollie]

3 acres a cow. thats the most acre per cow ratio i have heard yet, assuming this is true, if i were to run say a cow per acre, (i have a around 150 to play with) would i need to feed excessively to make up for this ratio being so low. thanks

Mike it would be cheaper to Feed lot them if your going to do that. In your part of the world three acres per cow on fertilized land is still good land all open and be completely out of grass a couple years in ten. I would say more conservatively don't fertilize and run a cow to every four or five and spray for weeds instead of bushog.Is it fescue or bermuda?

I don't often disagree with Ollie, but I don't understand this no fertilizer approach. With 150 ac farm I would bring it all up to test and keep it there. I would do what I could to keep my fertilizer bill as low as possible
[clover] but even a high fert. bill on small acerage is less expendsive than under utilization.

Hillbilly

Hillbilly, I wouldn't argue if you wanted to fertilize. I would argut that 30 to 40 dollars per acre this coming spring is more than the price of rental property or hay . My main point should have been. Spray. Whether you fertilize or not it will make money.On a limited budget I would spray first.

 

[greenwillowherefords]

I'm in your general area as well. I don't want to start a firestorm here, but the breed and size of cattle that you buy will also affect how many acres it takes per cow, by as much as 30%.

IMO, select cows with a mature weight of around 1200 pounds. Herefords, black or red Angus should at least have some influence. Year after year, a black-baldie is going to be at or near the top of the market at the Tulsa Stockyards if you are going to raise commercial cattle. The easiest way to achieve that is to put a Hereford bull on Angus cows, or an Angus bull on Hereford cows.

If you want to raise purebred registered stock, expect to spend more money, but have a more predictable selling price.

 

[okmike]

other than your herd catching some sort of sickness or needing doctoring, how often is it required that you "work" your cattle, such as shots and the like. what is the norm in this area when it comes to keeping up the herd. thanks mike

 

[fellersbarnoneranch]

Generally--2 times per year except for calves which will need to be boostered in two weeks after the first round. If you are going to keep your heifers, they need a bangs shot after weaning (from a vet who will tag them after) We vaccinate for lepto, blackleg, ibr, and pinkeye and worm the cattle alternating the injectable and pour-on.

 

[dun]

Generally--2 times per year except for calves which will need to be boostered in two weeks after the first round. If you are going to keep your heifers, they need a bangs shot after weaning (from a vet who will tag them after) We vaccinate for lepto, blackleg, ibr, and pinkeye and worm the cattle alternating the injectable and pour-on.

Except for Bangs we do the same.

dun

 

[cattle_gal]

Opps clicked the wrong button. Got to next reply

 

[cattle_gal]

other than your herd catching some sort of sickness or needing doctoring, how often is it required that you "work" your cattle, such as shots and the like. what is the norm in this area when it comes to keeping up the herd. thanks mike

For optimium effect from your vaccines here's a time frame.
Breeding Cattle
7 way or 8 way (AKA Balckleg)
*First time shot in cows(if you do not know prior history) 12 weeks prior calving. Most do this during preg testing. 2nd shot 6 weeks prior calving. Personally any closer to calving and you will put stress on some cows causing abortion.
*If the cows have a history of 7-8 way then the yearly(once a year) 6 weeks prior calving. This allows the protection to pass on to the unborn calf.
*Examples of 7 and 8 Way vacs. http://stockmens.com/store/products.asp ... g_Vaccines

4 or 5 way plus VL5

This vac is very important. Probably the most important shot you can give a cow. Has the IBR, BVD, PI3, BRSV plus what is commonly called the VL5 ingredients. VL stands of Vibro Lepto. Now if the cow already has the disease such as BVD(type 1 and 2) this shot will not cure her. This protects them against getting the virus. The Vibro Lepto can and most likely will abort the cows. Here's an example 20 cow's bought from XYZ cattle buyer. Come calving time they have either all "slinked" (aborted) or had dead calves. Maybe 1 or 2 calves born alive.

* As with most vac's there is a first shot and a booster shot.
* Some are "friendly" to use on bred cows and some are not. Get with your vet.
* Typically the best time for effectiveness is 4-6 weeks prior to first day of breeding for the anuall shot. We used to do it at preg testing as well, but found out from vets it is better before you breed.

Examples of these vac's are:
http://stockmens.com/store/catalog_deta ... Gold+5+VL5

http://stockmens.com/store/catalog_deta ... +4+%2B+VL5

http://stockmens.com/store/catalog_deta ... +5+%2B+VL5

http://stockmens.com/store/catalog_deta ... ype+II+BVD

http://stockmens.com/store/catalog_deta ... amid+MLV+9

Bangs Brusolosis Vac
* To be done on Heifers under the 365 day age. This would be done on replacement breeding stock, or feeder heifers that will be going to a state that requires bangs vac. It is not common to bangs feeders heifers that go into a feedlot.
* Vet does the tattoo, shot, and clip in the ear.
* If you sell your cows and they are not bangs vac in some states you can not take them out of the state or bring them into another state. Potential $$ could go down the drain if you can't transport them across the line. Cull cows don't need to worry about being able to read the tattoo. If you go to a auction sale for bred cows and you hear the term - "readable tattoo" or "unreadable tattoo" Bangs is what they are refering to. If they can't read it the price may go down $100 for a bred cow.
* Up here in the northern states near Jellystone Park it is a must to have breeding stock bangs vac. The buffalo carry it and give it to the cattle - oh and humans. And then the excreation of the carrier cow can give it to other cows and humans.

Deworming

* There is different ways when this is done. This typically is done either in the fall after the first freeze. Don't know when you get your first frost down there. Up they deworm when they preg test. Or you can also do it in the spring after the green grass starts. That is when we do it. Either when we brand or when we go out on grass.
*Here's some examples of dewormers
http://stockmens.com/store/products.asp ... =Dewormers

More various vacs to look at
http://stockmens.com/store/products.asp ... e=Vaccines

 

[okmike]

and im assuming that the best way for this is throuh a corral and into a shoot. how do most people out there do this that dont have a lot of money to buy expensive shoots.

 

[fellersbarnoneranch]

If your land has an existing lot/corral that would be something to start with. Ideally you need an alley (narrow lane that a cow can't trun around in) and either a chute or a head gate. You need an area to get your cattle into in order to drive or crowd them into the alley. If you are in a bare bones pasture, you may be able to get by with some very well anchored portable fence panels--but DEFINATELY not the ideal situation! These are lightweight and easily moved around by the cattle. Do you have anything to start with fence-wise?

 

[okmike]

yes we have a corral and a good place to run them into but it seems that the shoots we have are really narrow and would only fit a calf. the bigger area that i could use only opens up to area close to the house and would require me to drive them back to field, which i dont know if that would be better or not. the bigger shoot area is a one way type deal that opens up to the driveway.

 

[dun]

Pretty much the standard width for alleyways is 29 inchs inside. May seem narrow, but you'ld be surprised how big of an animal will fit down them.

dun