Blue Christmas ?

[callmefence]

Allow me,if you will,to clarify my intent on the OP.

I started this thread to make folks aware of the higher incidents of depression this time of year and to try to get them to be aware of others around them.
Depression is a year around disease for those who have it and there are two,somewhat distinct, types.
Everyone who will admit it has been somewhat depressed at some point in their life.May have only been something that today seems trivial.May have been the loss of a family member, close friend or a treasured animal.
Those things are temporary and can usually be overcome by refocusing,work,hobbies etc. Not extremely hard to cope with.
The other type is a disease and doesn't matter if it's caused by heredity,chemical imbalances,nutrition or a combination of those. This is the type that is most debilitating and,while similar to the other in appearance to others,is the hardest to deal with.Those who have experienced it know that they,themselves know what they are feeling is counterproductve,they know the things they feel bad about are a part of life and that life isn't fair always,they know that the people they feel depressed for don't see it like they do.They also know if, it was just a matter of willpower,they could eventually overcome it.Some have tried,again and again,to change their attitude and thoughts with failure.
What I want people to see is that there are those around them that do have a disease they can't "cure" on their own.All they are asking for is a little understanding and,in some cases,a little positive help in getting themselves back on track.It's no different than opening a door for someone on crutches,picking up something someone dropped when their arms are overloaded or anything else most of us do without even thinking about.

Telling folks to simply "walk off" a mental health issue does nothing to help the person solve the problem. It only pushes them farther into the shadows and delays their treatment until it becomes to much to bear. For some it ends in hospitalization, in others suicide. The worst thing you can do it to trivialize something. Be a support person, not a detractor.

So let's tell everyone who won't get out from under the covers and face the world that it's just fine to be that way. Let's tell the acholics and drug addicts that it's ok. Their just sick, have a disease you know. Maybe there's some that absolutely are mentally damaged. But most are just weak. And it's easier to be weak when someone gives you a excuse. A human being can do extraordinary things when properly motivated. And shame can be a helluva motivation.

 

[Redgully]

I've seen depression in different ways. My uncle uses "depression" to twist people around him to get what he wants. For my ex brother in law it was his excuse for multiple affairs. Then on the otherside my brothers best friend hung himself out of the blue when 23 and only told of his depression in some letters he left. No one had a clue. But closer to home my wife had bad post natal depression after our second child. The day after having her i could tell something wasn't right and it just got worse for the next six months. One day i decided she needed some help so looked up some phone numbers. That same day she rang me really nervous and asked me if i think she could have post natal. I said definitely and told her i was looking for help, she burst out crying but you know what, from that moment she got better and better. I think it just helped her understand there was a reason why she was feeling the way she was. Dr wanted her on tablets but she refused. I got her to see psychologist but we both felt unimpressed by her. She was told she had to put the kids in care and focus on herself, go out on her own once a week and just enjoy herself. Basically become all about yourself. But in the end just knowing what was causing her to feel the way she was is all she needed to make the changes needed to work her way out of it. I have never had depression in my life so a bit hard for me to understand but i do know it is a very complicated issue ranging from people who are selfish right over to people who give everything they have and feel they aren't giving enough. Then there is conditions and causes no one understands. Best look out for each other and get the proper help in each individual case even if it means medication or a punch in the nose.

 

[Bestoutwest]

So let's tell everyone who won't get out from under the covers and face the world that it's just fine to be that way. Let's tell the acholics and drug addicts that it's ok. Their just sick, have a disease you know. Maybe there's some that absolutely are mentally damaged. But most are just weak. And it's easier to be weak when someone gives you a excuse. A human being can do extraordinary things when properly motivated. And shame can be a helluva motivation.

Addiction is a disease. It's unfortunate that you don't, can't, won't understand that. There are a multitude of reasons that someone turns to drugs and alcohol. It can be boredom and stupidity. It can be that their friends rope them into it. Or it can be to placate pain, AND not all issues can be seen on the surface. You can have what appears to be the perfect life in public, and MASSIVE issues behind closed doors (emotional, physical, sexual abuse come to mind). I'm very interested in why you think everyone is weak, and that you're some boss of the world b/c you do this, and you do that, and if everyone isn't exactly like you they're bad. Enjoy the thin air up on your ivory tower, pal, it's probably pretty lonely.

Here's some reading on addiction. The first one's from Harvard, but I'm sure they're just stupid, lazy academics:
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/is-addiction-a-brain-disease-201603119260

And here's the most important part.
"The stigma and shame of addiction has much to do with the perception that people with substance use disorders are weak, immoral, or simply out for a good time at society's expense. Understanding that addiction impairs the brain in many important ways may reduce such stigma. What's more, the specific type of brain dysfunction may help identify a range of effective interventions and preventions. For example, during adolescence, the brain is at its most plastic — and vulnerable. This is a time when caution and intervention may prove most valuable. The earlier the drug exposure or trauma to the brain, the greater the damage."

https://www.mentalhealthfirstaid.org/external/2017/11/addiction-brain-disorder/

https://www.verywellmind.com/addiction-is-a-chronic-brain-disease-67874

 

[Bestoutwest]

I've seen depression in different ways. My uncle uses "depression" to twist people around him to get what he wants. For my ex brother in law it was his excuse for multiple affairs. Then on the otherside my brothers best friend hung himself out of the blue when 23 and only told of his depression in some letters he left. No one had a clue. But closer to home my wife had bad post natal depression after our second child. The day after having her i could tell something wasn't right and it just got worse for the next six months. One day i decided she needed some help so looked up some phone numbers. That same day she rang me really nervous and asked me if i think she could have post natal. I said definitely and told her i was looking for help, she burst out crying but you know what, from that moment she got better and better. I think it just helped her understand there was a reason why she was feeling the way she was. Dr wanted her on tablets but she refused. I got her to see psychologist but we both felt unimpressed by her. She was told she had to put the kids in care and focus on herself, go out on her own once a week and just enjoy herself. Basically become all about yourself. But in the end just knowing what was causing her to feel the way she was is all she needed to make the changes needed to work her way out of it. I have never had depression in my life so a bit hard for me to understand but i do know it is a very complicated issue ranging from people who are selfish right over to people who give everything they have and feel they aren't giving enough. Then there is conditions and causes no one understands. Best look out for each other and get the proper help in each individual case even if it means medication or a punch in the nose.

This is why you don't tell people they're "just being weak," and humiliate them.

 

[Nesikep]

Who'd have expected Robin Williams to kill himself?

Bright Raven, the follow up post doesn't support your supposition of humor

Dealing with depression and pressing on despite it takes more strength than you can possibly imagine... Do some people maybe abuse that? Oh, most likely, as with everything, I think there's a far greater proportion of people who've never told anyone about it though.

 

[callmefence]

So let's tell everyone who won't get out from under the covers and face the world that it's just fine to be that way. Let's tell the acholics and drug addicts that it's ok. Their just sick, have a disease you know. Maybe there's some that absolutely are mentally damaged. But most are just weak. And it's easier to be weak when someone gives you a excuse. A human being can do extraordinary things when properly motivated. And shame can be a helluva motivation.

Addiction is a disease. It's unfortunate that you don't, can't, won't understand that. There are a multitude of reasons that someone turns to drugs and alcohol. It can be boredom and stupidity. It can be that their friends rope them into it. Or it can be to placate pain, AND not all issues can be seen on the surface. You can have what appears to be the perfect life in public, and MASSIVE issues behind closed doors (emotional, physical, sexual abuse come to mind). I'm very interested in why you think everyone is weak, and that you're some boss of the world b/c you do this, and you do that, and if everyone isn't exactly like you they're bad. Enjoy the thin air up on your ivory tower, pal, it's probably pretty lonely.

Here's some reading on addiction. The first one's from Harvard, but I'm sure they're just stupid, lazy academics:
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/is-addiction-a-brain-disease-201603119260

And here's the most important part.
"The stigma and shame of addiction has much to do with the perception that people with substance use disorders are weak, immoral, or simply out for a good time at society's expense. Understanding that addiction impairs the brain in many important ways may reduce such stigma. What's more, the specific type of brain dysfunction may help identify a range of effective interventions and preventions. For example, during adolescence, the brain is at its most plastic — and vulnerable. This is a time when caution and intervention may prove most valuable. The earlier the drug exposure or trauma to the brain, the greater the damage."

https://www.mentalhealthfirstaid.org/external/2017/11/addiction-brain-disorder/

https://www.verywellmind.com/addiction-is-a-chronic-brain-disease-67874

You know nothing of what I've dealt with....

 

[Nesikep]

You know nothing of what I've dealt with....

fair enough, might apply to a lot of people though

 

[callmefence]

Strong people treat depression like a stumped toe.....walk it off....

AAaaand.. THERE IT IS.. That's the voice of someone that hasn't had any severe depression

That's the voice of a man who doesn't have to ask his mom and dad if he can have a friend over.

 

[Bestoutwest]

You know nothing of what I've dealt with....

Very true, but neither do you. You know nothing of what I, nor my family, have dealt with. You know nothing of what anyone has dealt with. And to come at people with an attitude of "Quit being weak. Quit being lazy." will never get them to the point of allowing you in. Like I said before, be a support person. Listen. Understand. It doesn't mean you have to support their addiction, or their unwillingness to seek help/treatment. But shunning someone will never get them anywhere.

 

[callmefence]

You know nothing of what I've dealt with....

Very true, but neither do you. You know nothing of what I, nor my family, have dealt with. You know nothing of what anyone has dealt with. And to come at people with an attitude of "Quit being weak. Quit being lazy." will never get them to the point of allowing you in. Like I said before, be a support person. Listen. Understand. It doesn't mean you have to support their addiction, or their unwillingness to seek help/treatment. But shunning someone will never get them anywhere.

That's not true in all cases. With a little more life experience you will begin to understand that making excuses for people doesn't do them any favors. I have no desire to be "let in " by the weak and lazy. If they want in with me they have to quit being weak and lazy. This has worked in my experience.

 

[CG1]

You know nothing of what I've dealt with....

Very true, but neither do you. You know nothing of what I, nor my family, have dealt with. You know nothing of what anyone has dealt with. And to come at people with an attitude of "Quit being weak. Quit being lazy." will never get them to the point of allowing you in. Like I said before, be a support person. Listen. Understand. It doesn't mean you have to support their addiction, or their unwillingness to seek help/treatment. But shunning someone will never get them anywhere.

That's not true in all cases. With a little more life experience you will begin to understand that making excuses for people doesn't do them any favors. I have no desire to be "let in " by the weak and lazy. If they want in with me they have to quit being weak and lazy. This has worked in my experience.

I feel you on this. I lost 4 friends this year, 1 last week...to addiction. We have lost over 10 friends since I graduated highschool in 2005. Listening and being supportive doesn't alway work. I've tried it. Along with cutting them out. I have a very short understanding for it at this point in my life. It's hard to watch someone fall when you know they have it in them to be strong enough. And I think that's what you're saying. Yes it's a disease, but it's hard to not say be strong.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

You know nothing of what I've dealt with....

Very true, but neither do you. You know nothing of what I, nor my family, have dealt with. You know nothing of what anyone has dealt with. And to come at people with an attitude of "Quit being weak. Quit being lazy." will never get them to the point of allowing you in. Like I said before, be a support person. Listen. Understand. It doesn't mean you have to support their addiction, or their unwillingness to seek help/treatment. But shunning someone will never get them anywhere.

That's not true in all cases. With a little more life experience you will begin to understand that making excuses for people doesn't do them any favors. I have no desire to be "let in " by the weak and lazy. If they want in with me they have to quit being weak and lazy. This has worked in my experience.

Sometimes a loving and caring boot to the hind end is needed.

 

[hurleyjd]

I will tell you a real story of a young man I know. He works at the lawnmower shop where I trade. About a year ago I was there and mentioned alcoholism and one of the other guys there said that the young man was an alcoholic. I am good friends with all of them. The young man said no I am not an alcoholic I only drink after work to unwind. I said you are the typical alcoholic.
He argued with me whether he was or was not. Anyway last summer he and a friend were driving along the shoulder of a country road and the State trooper pulled him over. Arrested both for being drunk. He spent the week end in jail. When he got out his wife told him I love you but I cannot take this any more you either go into rehab or leave. Any way he went into a residential rehab for about 2 months. He came back to work and you cannot believe how well he looked. I complimented on the fact and he said I not only look better on the outside but on the inside I am a better person.

 

[Bright Raven]

Who'd have expected Robin Williams to kill himself?

Bright Raven, the follow up post doesn't support your supposition of humor

Dealing with depression and pressing on despite it takes more strength than you can possibly imagine... Do some people maybe abuse that? Oh, most likely, as with everything, I think there's a far greater proportion of people who've never told anyone about it though.

You don't know him do you? Lol

 

[hurleyjd]

I will tell you a real story of a young man I know. He works at the lawnmower shop where I trade. About a year ago I was there and mentioned alcoholism and one of the other guys there said that the young man was an alcoholic. I am good friends with all of them. The young man said no I am not an alcoholic I only drink after work to unwind. I said you are the typical alcoholic.
He argued with me whether he was or was not. Anyway last summer he and a friend were driving along the shoulder of a country road and the State trooper pulled him over. Arrested both for being drunk. He spent the week end in jail. When he got out his wife told him I love you but I cannot take this any more you either go into rehab or leave. Any way he went into a residential rehab for about 2 months. He came back to work and you cannot believe how well he looked. I complimented on the fact and he said I not only look better on the outside but on the inside I am a better person.

 

[Nesikep]

Who'd have expected Robin Williams to kill himself?

Bright Raven, the follow up post doesn't support your supposition of humor

Dealing with depression and pressing on despite it takes more strength than you can possibly imagine... Do some people maybe abuse that? Oh, most likely, as with everything, I think there's a far greater proportion of people who've never told anyone about it though.

You don't know him do you? Lol

Nope, I think I'd have liked to though (We're still talking about Robin Williams, right?)

 

[Nesikep]

You know nothing of what I've dealt with....

Very true, but neither do you. You know nothing of what I, nor my family, have dealt with. You know nothing of what anyone has dealt with. And to come at people with an attitude of "Quit being weak. Quit being lazy." will never get them to the point of allowing you in. Like I said before, be a support person. Listen. Understand. It doesn't mean you have to support their addiction, or their unwillingness to seek help/treatment. But shunning someone will never get them anywhere.

That's not true in all cases. With a little more life experience you will begin to understand that making excuses for people doesn't do them any favors. I have no desire to be "let in " by the weak and lazy. If they want in with me they have to quit being weak and lazy. This has worked in my experience.

I've worked the crazy hours and all that, but at the end of the day, depression can still be there.. In many cases work is the one escape people have from it. My last year of having a "real job" I worked 3350 hours in that year, that's 9 hours a day with no weekends, no holidays, or 13 hours a day every weekday.. it was a stressful job but I did enjoy it

 

[Bright Raven]

Who'd have expected Robin Williams to kill himself?

Bright Raven, the follow up post doesn't support your supposition of humor

Dealing with depression and pressing on despite it takes more strength than you can possibly imagine... Do some people maybe abuse that? Oh, most likely, as with everything, I think there's a far greater proportion of people who've never told anyone about it though.

You don't know him do you? Lol

Nope, I think I'd have liked to though (We're still talking about Robin Williams, right?)

Yes. Why do you ask, My Lord?

 

[callmefence]

Very true, but neither do you. You know nothing of what I, nor my family, have dealt with. You know nothing of what anyone has dealt with. And to come at people with an attitude of "Quit being weak. Quit being lazy." will never get them to the point of allowing you in. Like I said before, be a support person. Listen. Understand. It doesn't mean you have to support their addiction, or their unwillingness to seek help/treatment. But shunning someone will never get them anywhere.

That's not true in all cases. With a little more life experience you will begin to understand that making excuses for people doesn't do them any favors. I have no desire to be "let in " by the weak and lazy. If they want in with me they have to quit being weak and lazy. This has worked in my experience.

I've worked the crazy hours and all that, but at the end of the day, depression can still be there.. In many cases work is the one escape people have from it. My last year of having a "real job" I worked 3350 hours in that year, that's 9 hours a day with no weekends, no holidays, or 13 hours a day every weekday.. it was a stressful job but I did enjoy it

Immersing yourself in your work as therapy would be a perfect example of walking it off.

 

[Nesikep]

It doesn't fix the problem though, I think it's part of the reason there are some high functioning alcoholics.. work like hell, then go drink, repeat the next day, and on weekends too.. I don't think that's a healthy lifestyle either. I have 2 beers on Monday, 2 on friday