Black Charolais

[#LHB#]

Anybody use them. I was at a meeting today and they were pushing the charolais pretty hard and with good reason. I was really looking hard at using a herferd bull on my angus cows but now really looking hard into charolais. I would like to keep the calfs mostly black (just because they tend to sell better here) so thats why I was wondering about the black charolais. What can you tell me about them, are they pretty much the same as any other charolais? Thanks for all the help

 

[denvermartinfarms]

I don't know much about black charolais, but i really like the regular one's. although if i was you i would go ahead with the hereford for angus cows, that's hard to beat imo.

 

[AllForage]

What kind of meeting? Who was putting it on?

 

[#LHB#]

The beef specialist from NC State

 

[herefordlover]

black charolais....so is that like the black hereford?????????? there is nothing wrong with a char bull on angus cows. what i have seen their calves gain great maybe even better than a hereford cross

 

[Kingfisher]

The beef specialist from NC State

Did they by chance tell you how they got a breed that is predominately white into black bulls? I'm just curious.

 

[heath]

They bred red factored charolais cows to Angus bulls. I believe the registered black charolais are 31/32.

 

[whitecow]

Black cattle cannot be registered as purebred Charolais.
Below is from the AICA Registration/Rules:
DISQUALIFICATIONS
1. For purebreds 31/32 and up and notwithstanding parentage verification by DNA testing:
a. color is white, light straw, or light cream with pink skin
b. animal must not have a dark nose
c. animal must not be spotted
d. animal must not have excessive dark skin pigmentation
e. animal cannot have an unidentified sire or dam

 

[dun]

Black cattle cannot be registered as purebred Charolais.
Below is from the AICA Registration/Rules:
DISQUALIFICATIONS
1. For purebreds 31/32 and up and notwithstanding parentage verification by DNA testing:
a. color is white, light straw, or light cream with pink skin
b. animal must not have a dark nose
c. animal must not be spotted
d. animal must not have excessive dark skin pigmentation
e. animal cannot have an unidentified sire or dam

Since the redand black charolais ceom from canada I wonder if their breed association has the same requirements

 

[Kingfisher]

1. For purebreds 31/32 and up and notwithstanding parentage verification by DNA testing:

Can someone tell me what that means specifically the 31/32 part? Thanks in advance

 

[whitecow]

":95pbe236]
Since the redand black charolais ceom from canada I wonder if their breed association has the same requirements

Good question. I looked on the Canadian Charolais website and found this:
Color: Article XVIII 1 (O,P)

An incidence of red pigmentation was a natural circumstance in the original importation's from France. Many descendants from the original importation's carry the identifiable color pigmentation that varies from buff to red. A broken or mottled skin, or hair color may be in evidence. This natural occurrence, coupled with the upgrading of commercial animals to purebred Charolais status through mating with the British breeds, has led to a percentage of Charolais animals that are identifiable as red factor. See Color Incidence Article

Mark one only: White/Light Cream

Other – any color other than white or light cream

This will cause the letter "Q" to show at the beginning of the registration

number – QFC

 

[denvermartinfarms]

black charolais....so is that like the black hereford?????????? there is nothing wrong with a char bull on angus cows. what i have seen their calves gain great maybe even better than a hereford cross

I agree with char bulls on angus cows, i did that for years and i have alot of cows that are half char half angus, but for selling calves the black baldies in most cases will sell better that the grey calves, that is why i said hereford over a charolais.

 

[whitecow]

1. For purebreds 31/32 and up and notwithstanding parentage verification by DNA testing:

Can someone tell me what that means specifically the 31/32 part? Thanks in advance

The AICA (Charolais association in the US) has an open herd book that allows "breeding up" to reach purebred status. A female that is at least 31/32 Charolais is considered purebred if she meets the outlined requirements.

The "breeding up" program was important in the 50's & 60's because there were so few Charolais in the US. Today, you have to look back many generations to find a non-purebred animal. There are, of course, a small percentage of "Full French" animals in the US now.

 

[Isomade]

black charolais....so is that like the black hereford?????????? there is nothing wrong with a char bull on angus cows. what i have seen their calves gain great maybe even better than a hereford cross

I agree with char bulls on angus cows, i did that for years and i have alot of cows that are half char half angus, but for selling calves the black baldies in most cases will sell better that the grey calves, that is why i said hereford over a charolais.

But you are in Mo. He's in NC. The greys sell as good or better here. It will depend on his market. And I ain't never seen a Hereford bull of equal value to a char bull come close to weaning weight.

 

[Sir Loin]

Reprint:

Re: The beef cattle market over the next 10 years
by Sir Loin » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:35 am
Thanks guys, that is pretty much the same as I saw it, up until about November when I starting asking myself " why am I seeing white cows in pastures that have been all black for the past 20 years".
In my area it was rare to see anything other then black Angus.

Then I ran across a post over on the "think tank" titled " The bloom is off the rose".
In short the concusses of opinion was/is that demand has shifted from quality to quantity and CAB is on its way out.
It was/is further agreed:
US inventory of beef cattle will continue to decline as will the demand for prime beef, while demand for choice beef cattle will remain constant or go up.

Beef cattle prices, for prime beef cattle will go down, while choice cattle prices will remain the same or go up.
Consumer prices for beef will go up slightly but be packaged in smaller quantities and/or new cuts will keep consumer prices constant per meal.

Dairy industry beef prices will go down.

With that in mind I now know why staunch black Angus breeders are now crossing their Angus with Chars.
Simply put: They are now willing to give up quality for quantity to increase profit by producing a larger animal of lesser quality.
Makes perfect sense to me. How about you?
SL

 

[greybeard]

With that in mind I now know why staunch black Angus breeders are now crossing their Angus with Chars.
Simply put: They are now willing to give up quality for quantity to increase profit by producing a larger animal of lesser quality.
Makes perfect sense to me. How about you?

It does till you consider that CAB folks have ALWAYS touted quality as their #1 attraction and selling point to both consumer and marketing.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

black charolais....so is that like the black hereford?????????? there is nothing wrong with a char bull on angus cows. what i have seen their calves gain great maybe even better than a hereford cross

I agree with char bulls on angus cows, i did that for years and i have alot of cows that are half char half angus, but for selling calves the black baldies in most cases will sell better that the grey calves, that is why i said hereford over a charolais.

But you are in Mo. He's in NC. The greys sell as good or better here. It will depend on his market. And I ain't never seen a Hereford bull of equal value to a char bull come close to weaning weight.

That's why i said in most cases, i have just been more places that it does hurt a calf to be grey. Like i said i love the cross, just not sure it is allways the best way to go, but i very well could be.

 

[BC]

When it is mentioned that the black calves sell better - is that price per lb. or total dollars in your pocket? I ask that because in my area, we have seen the number of black calves go from maybe 2 in 10 twenty years ago to now 7 out of every 10th calf that sticks his head in the auction ring. There used to be a premium for black hided calves, now black is common I don't see them bring more than a good yellow or red calf.

 

[Taurus]

Got docked for have a grey calf in the group at the sale barn but that was only one time I ever had a grey calf.

 

[AllForage]

The beef specialist from NC State

Be careful how much advice you take from these folks. They do not have to pay feed bills, pull calves, and balance your checkbook at the end of the day. Like your last post, you are missing the forest for the trees. With your climate you should be using a small efficient cow to graze as long as possible no matter how cheap you think your hay is. A live calf in fescue country should be your first concern. Not breaking the scales.