Red vs. Black Cows

[Huntet02]

Yes there is; I have red angus and some blacks and Charolais; blacks sell for 10-12cents / per 100lbs more in Kansas it's just a fact.

 

[txlonghorngirl]

?

its because the color red hides ribs and hip bones and black doesnt as well

 

[JParrott]

Hello! I am very new to cattle. I have a small heard of 8, 7 heifers and a bull. 3 BWF and the rest are Solid Black. They are just now 1 yr old. I wanted to sell my bull to get a herferd bull around the same age to breed so i would get more baldies. However, i keep reading that there is a penalty at the sale barn for red cows. I have also seen it at the sale barn the Monday before Thanksgiving. A breed Herferd sold for less than $300 but a sold black breed cow sold for $600 something. I don't understand, can some of you explain this to me, please.

Thanks in advance.
Jeff

The marketing genius of the American Angus Association for the last forty years.

You'll almost always lose money for any ear showing or any color other than black or bwf but I've yet to meet the person that can tell me the color of the bovine they're chewing on unless they had it butchered for themselves.

 

[Silver]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm glad I raise cattle in a market that pays for quality not colour.

 

[Ky hills]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm glad I raise cattle in a market that pays for quality not colour.

Silver, you have some good quality calves for sure.

 

[Silver]

Silver, you have some good quality calves for sure.

Well I appreciate that, thanks. But what is a pleasure is to be able to sell them and not be docked for something as ridiculous as colour.

 

[Ky hills]

Well I appreciate that, thanks. But what is a pleasure is to be able to sell them and not be docked for something as ridiculous as colour.

Would be nice if it were that way here. I think we have lost a lot of good breeding options and genetics because of the black hided craze.

 

[Silver]

Would be nice if it were that way here. I think we have lost a lot of good breeding options and genetics because of the black hided craze.

I think you are right. If we are not careful we will all be breeding a beef version of the Cornish Cross.

 

[SBMF 2015]

I think you are right. If we are not careful we will all be breeding a beef version of the Cornish Cross.

I'm not sure what the % is, but Smoky is the number 2 hide color of cattle killed at Tyson Fresh Meats in Joslin, IL. The amount of Charolais influence in the feed lots is a nice surprise.
The Hereford association is trying with their campaign "Making Blacks Better".
The number one breed in the feedlots should always be Hybrid Vigor.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

The CAB (Certified Angus Beef) Program pays more $$ if the carcass qualifies. One of the live requirements is that the animal has to be more than 51% black - any breed - except dairy, or humped cattle (Bos Indicus Cattle). Then there are a lot of carcass requirements to be certified.
Also Japan was paying a high premium for black hided carcasses.
And as mentioned, a number of years ago the feedlots were discounting Herefords because of their performance (well lack of performance) in the feedlot. All breeds have changed - but, old habits are hard to change.
Therefore, to a feedlot - reds are bad - blacks are more money. Not saying that is true at all. I raise red and black Simmental. "MY" feedlot buyer doesn't care what color they are - but he is a small backyard operation compared to what you are selling to.
If at all possible, it is always best to find your own direct sales buyer - if you have a quality animal to sell.

 

[Ky hills]

I'm not sure what the % is, but Smoky is the number 2 hide color of cattle killed at Tyson Fresh Meats in Joslin, IL. The amount of Charolais influence in the feed lots is a nice surprise.
The Hereford association is trying with their campaign "Making Blacks Better".
The number one breed in the feedlots should always be Hybrid Vigor.

From the way it looks at the markets , I would suspect it's a distant second, I used to raise Charolais and still believe that they are one of the best breeds to cross with anything, if you can get the calves beyond the calving point. Loss of hybrid vigor is no doubt a result of the black hide crap. I think other breeds like Charolais and Herefords can and are contributing some good things and gaining some in the bull market share.

 

[Ky hills]

I think you are right. If we are not careful we will all be breeding a beef version of the Cornish Cross.

I fear that is already happening as some of them are already showing lack of maternal and reproductive efficiency. Also many seem to have the temperament of the cattle equivalent of white LeghornX egg laying chickens.

 

[Dsth]

I think it has something to do with fast food restaurants that advertise that they only use black angus beef. I see a slightly lower price for red angus feeders here most of the time, but I have also seen red angus bring more that the blacks sometimes, but I only go to the sales if I have calves selling which is only 2 -3 times a year. Herefords seem to bring less that the red Angus. both as feeders and bred cows. My herd is mixed pretty evenly with red and black. I just like the red color and see no difference in performance between the two. Two of my red calves were definitely the heavies calves in the group last year. the 2 biggest reds and one that probably averaged the blacks weights weighted 950 lbs. going through the ring at 10 months. $1 difference between blacks and red per cwt on my calves that day, but average weight was slightly lower on the blacks. That day, the reds brought more just because of the heavier weight. I would suggest you breed what you would like to work with and be around every day. With a small herd like you have, a few dollars one way or another probably won't make or break you financially.

 

[jsully]

Dsth, it just makes me think sometimes... You can't tell the color of the cow once its packaged. Are some people that naive? However, right now with the size of my heard its not a huge difference either way. I do have have plans on expanding to larger numbers and I would like to think that I am getting paid for the quality of my cows regardless of color.

 

[WFfarm]

The CAB (Certified Angus Beef) Program pays more $$ if the carcass qualifies. One of the live requirements is that the animal has to be more than 51% black - any breed - except dairy, or humped cattle (Bos Indicus Cattle). Then there are a lot of carcass requirements to be certified.
Also Japan was paying a high premium for black hided carcasses.
And as mentioned, a number of years ago the feedlots were discounting Herefords because of their performance (well lack of performance) in the feedlot. All breeds have changed - but, old habits are hard to change.
Therefore, to a feedlot - reds are bad - blacks are more money. Not saying that is true at all. I raise red and black Simmental. "MY" feedlot buyer doesn't care what color they are - but he is a small backyard operation compared to what you are selling to.
If at all possible, it is always best to find your own direct sales buyer - if you have a quality animal to sell.

Jeanne, is there more to the CAB color than just 51% black. I read an article a few month back and I think they talked about not having any white past the shoulders or above the flank?

 

[SBMF 2015]

From the way it looks at the markets , I would suspect it's a distant second, I used to raise Charolais and still believe that they are one of the best breeds to cross with anything, if you can get the calves beyond the calving point. Loss of hybrid vigor is no doubt a result of the black hide crap. I think other breeds like Charolais and Herefords can and are contributing some good things and gaining some in the bull market share.

The farm that I'm herdsman at has used char bulls since the early '70s. We finish out all the calves we raise. We also used to buy several hundred feeders a year. Used to send finished cattle all over the country to packers. Out of the five packers we used to send cattle to two of them got to a point that they would not bid on pot loads of cattle because we could not guarantee that the loads would be 85% or more blk hided. Baldies count as colored cattle, not blacks. We always sell live, not on the rail.
A neighbor is a retired USDA inspector. One plant he used to go to, would sort off blue roans and baldies. They got hauled to the sale barn. They would only kill solid blacks.

 

[Ky hills]

The farm that I'm herdsman at has used char bulls since the early '70s. We finish out all the calves we raise. We also used to buy several hundred feeders a year. Used to send finished cattle all over the country to packers. Out of the five packers we used to send cattle to two of them got to a point that they would not bid on pot loads of cattle because we could not guarantee that the loads would be 85% or more blk hided. Baldies count as colored cattle, not blacks. We always sell live, not on the rail.
A neighbor is a retired USDA inspector. One plant he used to go to, would sort off blue roans and baldies. They got hauled to the sale barn. They would only kill solid blacks.

Interesting, I've never heard of black baldies being considered colored cattle. I can see the blue roans being sorted off in stockyards but it doesn't make sense to me that they would at the kill plant stage. I'm going from the angle that they are Angus x short horn. Both BWF and the roans would be straight British breeding, and should have as good of percentages of grading desirable as mixed breed Angus x continental.

 

[SBMF 2015]

Interesting, I've never heard of black baldies being considered colored cattle. I can see the blue roans being sorted off in stockyards but it doesn't make sense to me that they would at the kill plant stage. I'm going from the angle that they are Angus x short horn. Both BWF and the roans would be straight British breeding, and should have as good of percentages of grading desirable as mixed breed Angus x continental.

You are correct. That particular plant only sells "Black Angus" . It's a small co-op that only has shackle space for around 200.

At the end of the day the consumers dictate what we get a premium for. If they are willing to pay extra for Angus hot dogs and Angus dog food and Angus leather gloves. We will continue to produce black hided cattle.

 

[Ky hills]

You are correct. That particular plant only sells "Black Angus" . It's a small co-op that only has shackle space for around 200.

At the end of the day the consumers dictate what we get a premium for. If they are willing to pay extra for Angus hot dogs and Angus dog food and Angus leather gloves. We will continue to produce black hided cattle.

I understand that concept, I guess my issue is that there isn't any sure way to know that those solid black calves aren't part or even "purebred" Gelbvieh, Limousins, or Simmentals. Unless those calves are Angus Sourced or verified in some way, I still say that the aforementioned black white faces and blue roans could be closer to what the customers think they want than the solid black continentals.

 

[SBMF 2015]

I understand that concept, I guess my issue is that there isn't any sure way to know that those solid black calves aren't part or even "purebred" Gelbvieh, Limousins, or Simmentals. Unless those calves are Angus Sourced or verified in some way, I still say that the aforementioned black white faces and blue roans could be closer to what the customers think they want than the solid black continentals.

Probably. The general public doesn't have an eye for cattle. If you put a black Angus, a black Simmental, a black Limousine, a black Gelbvieh, and maybe even a black Brangus in a pen. The average consumer probably couldn't pick out the Angus.
When the Covid thing settles down. Their is a steak house about an 45 minutes away that advertises serving only Certified Hereford Beef. I'd sure like to go try a steak and see if I can tell a difference. I doubt I can, but I bet it will be good!