Big Momma Cows

[Dsteim]

How many calves did SAV have to wean to get one over 1100?

Probably not as many as you think. Here is the great thing about SAV. They did all the hard work, now all you have to do is buy that straw of semen and get to breeding.

Well how many 1100 pound bulls have you weaned?

 

[CattleMan1920]

How many calves did SAV have to wean to get one over 1100?

Probably not as many as you think. Here is the great thing about SAV. They did all the hard work, now all you have to do is buy that straw of semen and get to breeding.

Well how many 1100 pound bulls have you weaned?

None, and I can say that honestly. We don't use creep feeders now. We have experimented with them in the past, but our nutritionalist at Southern States said not to not use them. We do wean in the 700-800 range, without creep. I assume if we poured the feed to them we could go even higher. Once they are weaned however they get all they want.

If I could get SAV's upper weaning weights I would be ecstatic.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Even more amazing, they had them only on grass.

Lingle used creep feeding.

Are you certain, because I haven't read that in his book. The bulls were given grain, but after weaning.

 

[Nesikep]

you'll regret getting your cows weight over a ton...13,14 hundred is all I need...

That's my ultimate goal... I don't mind up to 1500 if they are stoutly built

 

[CSM]

I remember the angus association advertising making fun of the continental cattle. They showed a cow that looked like an elephant in the back of a truck. I guess it's okay now that the angus cows are the elephants.

 

[Dave]

The guy I bought my bulls from for years runs 400 pairs. He keeps and sells 24 bulls a year. The rest are cut and sent to the feedlot. He retains ownership on them and they sell on the grid. They have been doing this for 40 years or more. So you know their cattle preform in the pasture, the feedlot, and on the rail. If they didn't he would have lost his backside years ago. He told me that he got rid of the big cows. They are shooting for a 1,250 pound cow. He does have a few 1,400 pounders, but not many.
Environment they live in really makes a difference. I have been helping one of the neighbors work his cows. The first 4 bunches were all range cows that run in the hills here April to November. They might average 1,100. For sure nothing over 1,400. The last bunch we worked spend their life in irrigated pastures in the valley. They average about 1,350 and there are some that go 1,500 easy. But life is easy for them.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I remember the angus association advertising making fun of the continental cattle. They showed a cow that looked like an elephant in the back of a truck. I guess it's okay now that the angus cows are the elephants.

You hit the nail on the head. Angus has all the bases covered, from over efficient Wye and Pharo cattle, and then all the way to black elephants. As a commercial operation I'd rather have two calves from the Wye or Pharo cows than one calf from a Branded elephant cow.

 

[CattleMan1920]

The guy I bought my bulls from for years runs 400 pairs. He keeps and sells 24 bulls a year. The rest are cut and sent to the feedlot. He retains ownership on them and they sell on the grid. They have been doing this for 40 years or more. So you know their cattle preform in the pasture, the feedlot, and on the rail. If they didn't he would have lost his backside years ago. He told me that he got rid of the big cows. They are shooting for a 1,250 pound cow. He does have a few 1,400 pounders, but not many.
Environment they live in really makes a difference. I have been helping one of the neighbors work his cows. The first 4 bunches were all range cows that run in the hills here April to November. They might average 1,100. For sure nothing over 1,400. The last bunch we worked spend their life in irrigated pastures in the valley. They average about 1,350 and there are some that go 1,500 easy. But life is easy for them.

To each their own, but 1250 pounds for a cow is way too small for me. Our heifers usually weigh 1250 if not more, a couple months before they calve.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Those big cows are eat up with eye appeal in a perfect world, I'd love to have a pasture full. .but in this real world, a ""commercial""" man has to be sensible... Staying in the middle,,, has been my goal these last few years..

 

[CattleMan1920]

I remember the angus association advertising making fun of the continental cattle. They showed a cow that looked like an elephant in the back of a truck. I guess it's okay now that the angus cows are the elephants.

You hit the nail on the head. Angus has all the bases covered, from over efficient Wye and Pharo cattle, and then all the way to black elephants. As a commercial operation I'd rather have two calves from the Wye or Pharo cows than one calf from a Branded elephant cow.

Tell me why people are trying to cross to Gelbvieh, Charolais, you name it, to get bigger animals? I think you just don't like Angus. If the demand for Wye was what it once was, they would still be topping the sales. They were great in their time, but time has moved on. Size does matter.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Those big cows are eat up with eye appeal in a perfect world, I'd love to have a pasture full. .but in this real world, a ""commercial""" man has to be sensible... Staying in the middle,,, has been my goal these last few years..

I understand that a cow has to fit the environment, but last time I checked Kentucky has a wretched environment, and our big cows hold up fine.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I remember the angus association advertising making fun of the continental cattle. They showed a cow that looked like an elephant in the back of a truck. I guess it's okay now that the angus cows are the elephants.

You hit the nail on the head. Angus has all the bases covered, from over efficient Wye and Pharo cattle, and then all the way to black elephants. As a commercial operation I'd rather have two calves from the Wye or Pharo cows than one calf from a Branded elephant cow.

Tell me why people are trying to cross to Gelbvieh, Charolais, you name it, to get bigger animals? I think you just don't like Angus. If the demand for Wye was what it once was, they would still be topping the sales. They were great in their time, but time has moved on. Size does matter.

There's lots of folks with money from somewhere else besides cattle that want to play cowboy. Nice big, fat looking cows and bulls sell good and look great as long as your not looking to pay the bills with them.

 

[Ebenezer]

Even more amazing, they had them only on grass.

Lingle used creep feeding.

Are you certain, because I haven't read that in his book. The bulls were given grain, but after weaning.

I'm certain.

 

[Chocolate Cow2]

"Tell me why people are trying to cross to Gelbvieh, Charolais, you name it, to get bigger animals? I think you just don't like Angus. If the demand for Wye was what it once was, they would still be topping the sales. They were great in their time, but time has moved on. Size does matter."


You can cross on whatever you want to capture hybrid vigor but you don't save the offspring as replacements. They should all go to town or the feedlot.

One thing that crosses my mind with this topic is the price disparity between the commercial producer and the seedstock producer.
Branded-you can feed your cows anyway you want and get them as big as you want. You sell one bull for $3,000 or $5,000. That's one animal.
I sell one steer and get $1,000. My money has to go a lot farther and be spent much more wisely. If I received $3,000 for one steer, I could afford to ignore size and feed requirements. Until that time arrives, I won't own a cow that weighs over 1,300 lbs. I won't source any animals from a breeder who's environment is better than mine because I can not financially afford to replicate that environment.

 

[Lazy M]

I think it's well established that ************* likes big cows. I am currently reading a book about the Wye Plantation and they worked hard to breed a larger framed Angus. There were a lot of other parameters they mention, strong jaw, big feet, and something I noticed that was very interesting, they had one, only one, "super cow" which is how they described her. She weaned a calf each year that was 60% of her weight for 10 consecutive years. With ET and IVF she could have been replicated over and over, too bad they didn't have the technology then that we have now. In fact, I was surprised by reading the book that they had several cows over 1700 pounds, back in that time! Amazing. Even more amazing, they had them only on grass.

Anyway, with that said, I mentioned a combination to Bright Raven the other day that we are going to do in 2019 using either ET or IVF (whichever one the Vet says will work best), and he said that we were pushing the envelope for Angus. It may be pushing the envelope, but how will we know if we don't try? I'm pretty sure this isn't a combo that UK or Morehead State University would suggest for Kentucky producers, but I'm also pretty sure that the females that come of this pairing will produce some high quality, heavy weaning, large framed registered Angus cattle for years to come.

We are going to take this 2040 pound registered Angus cow from the Queen Mother cow family, who has a lot of Basin influence, and is currently pretty far along with an SAV President 6847 calf inside her, and cross her with SAV Net Worth, in a lab. We have a decent amount of SAV Net Worth 4200 to work with, so we will try for at least 10 progeny.

My hopes are that we can get a some registered Angus females out of this combination that are functional and in the 2200 pound range at maturity. I would probably breed those first females to SAV America 8018.

This is all a ways off, but it will happen.

https://www.angus.org/Animal/EpdPedDtl.aspx?aid=FAAAAO2ryzSd6PY1%2bHctHKcTKCNUceXjCiUCkTCEIqKIAhiD&time=LAAAAJ8MC0h2uLHE3duFnj9PYQum4S2eZMUNBY7Z7Fk7qGm9BGih%2bS2cqjbC4of7mJm9uQ%3d%3d
You do realize that net worth is right at or even below breed average for growth? I agree that phenotypically he is VERY impressive but his off spring haven't performed very well.. unless you're going for huge birth weights, poor docility, and average growth. I was talking to a long time breeder about this bull a while back and he claimed that net worth has been a big overall disappointment.. I personally haven't used him or had much experience with calves sired by him, though. I have seen a few cows by him and my only take away was plain and high headed.

 

[CattleMan1920]

You hit the nail on the head. Angus has all the bases covered, from over efficient Wye and Pharo cattle, and then all the way to black elephants. As a commercial operation I'd rather have two calves from the Wye or Pharo cows than one calf from a Branded elephant cow.

Tell me why people are trying to cross to Gelbvieh, Charolais, you name it, to get bigger animals? I think you just don't like Angus. If the demand for Wye was what it once was, they would still be topping the sales. They were great in their time, but time has moved on. Size does matter.

There's lots of folks with money from somewhere else besides cattle that want to play cowboy. Nice big, fat looking cows and bulls sell good and look great as long as your not looking to pay the bills with them.

So let me get this straight, according to you, an operation like SAV for example only sells to people "playing cowboy"? You think people are buying their bulls because they look pretty? Are you messing with us all? I'll bet that SAV has some VERY SERIOUS commercial cattlemen buying bulls from them, and the last thing they are doing is trying to "play cowboy"

I know you are just being funny.

 

[CattleMan1920]

I think it's well established that ************* likes big cows. I am currently reading a book about the Wye Plantation and they worked hard to breed a larger framed Angus. There were a lot of other parameters they mention, strong jaw, big feet, and something I noticed that was very interesting, they had one, only one, "super cow" which is how they described her. She weaned a calf each year that was 60% of her weight for 10 consecutive years. With ET and IVF she could have been replicated over and over, too bad they didn't have the technology then that we have now. In fact, I was surprised by reading the book that they had several cows over 1700 pounds, back in that time! Amazing. Even more amazing, they had them only on grass.

Anyway, with that said, I mentioned a combination to Bright Raven the other day that we are going to do in 2019 using either ET or IVF (whichever one the Vet says will work best), and he said that we were pushing the envelope for Angus. It may be pushing the envelope, but how will we know if we don't try? I'm pretty sure this isn't a combo that UK or Morehead State University would suggest for Kentucky producers, but I'm also pretty sure that the females that come of this pairing will produce some high quality, heavy weaning, large framed registered Angus cattle for years to come.

We are going to take this 2040 pound registered Angus cow from the Queen Mother cow family, who has a lot of Basin influence, and is currently pretty far along with an SAV President 6847 calf inside her, and cross her with SAV Net Worth, in a lab. We have a decent amount of SAV Net Worth 4200 to work with, so we will try for at least 10 progeny.

My hopes are that we can get a some registered Angus females out of this combination that are functional and in the 2200 pound range at maturity. I would probably breed those first females to SAV America 8018.

This is all a ways off, but it will happen.

https://www.angus.org/Animal/EpdPedDtl.aspx?aid=FAAAAO2ryzSd6PY1%2bHctHKcTKCNUceXjCiUCkTCEIqKIAhiD&time=LAAAAJ8MC0h2uLHE3duFnj9PYQum4S2eZMUNBY7Z7Fk7qGm9BGih%2bS2cqjbC4of7mJm9uQ%3d%3d
You do realize that net worth is right at or even below breed average for growth? I agree that phenotypically he is VERY impressive but his off spring haven't performed very well.. unless you're going for huge birth weights, poor docility, and average growth. I was talking to a long time breeder about this bull a while back and he claimed that net worth has been a big overall disappointment.. I personally haven't used him or had much experience with calves sired by him, though. I have seen a few cows by him and my only take away was plain and high headed.

I would definitely use him. He is only one half of the equation. You did not look at the cow I am using him on. She is well above breed average for growth. Net Worth daughters will always be in demand. Same with SAV Harvestor. By the way, if you can get any SAV Harvestor daughters, you should get as many as you can, they are superb.

When people say a combination was "big disappointment", they rarely tell you about the dam they used. Maybe she was the big disappointment. AI is a great way to improve a herd, but sometimes people are looking for miracles to happen in that straw of semen.

 

[Lazy M]

I think it's well established that ************* likes big cows. I am currently reading a book about the Wye Plantation and they worked hard to breed a larger framed Angus. There were a lot of other parameters they mention, strong jaw, big feet, and something I noticed that was very interesting, they had one, only one, "super cow" which is how they described her. She weaned a calf each year that was 60% of her weight for 10 consecutive years. With ET and IVF she could have been replicated over and over, too bad they didn't have the technology then that we have now. In fact, I was surprised by reading the book that they had several cows over 1700 pounds, back in that time! Amazing. Even more amazing, they had them only on grass.

Anyway, with that said, I mentioned a combination to Bright Raven the other day that we are going to do in 2019 using either ET or IVF (whichever one the Vet says will work best), and he said that we were pushing the envelope for Angus. It may be pushing the envelope, but how will we know if we don't try? I'm pretty sure this isn't a combo that UK or Morehead State University would suggest for Kentucky producers, but I'm also pretty sure that the females that come of this pairing will produce some high quality, heavy weaning, large framed registered Angus cattle for years to come.

We are going to take this 2040 pound registered Angus cow from the Queen Mother cow family, who has a lot of Basin influence, and is currently pretty far along with an SAV President 6847 calf inside her, and cross her with SAV Net Worth, in a lab. We have a decent amount of SAV Net Worth 4200 to work with, so we will try for at least 10 progeny.

My hopes are that we can get a some registered Angus females out of this combination that are functional and in the 2200 pound range at maturity. I would probably breed those first females to SAV America 8018.

This is all a ways off, but it will happen.

https://www.angus.org/Animal/EpdPedDtl.aspx?aid=FAAAAO2ryzSd6PY1%2bHctHKcTKCNUceXjCiUCkTCEIqKIAhiD&time=LAAAAJ8MC0h2uLHE3duFnj9PYQum4S2eZMUNBY7Z7Fk7qGm9BGih%2bS2cqjbC4of7mJm9uQ%3d%3d
You do realize that net worth is right at or even below breed average for growth? I agree that phenotypically he is VERY impressive but his off spring haven't performed very well.. unless you're going for huge birth weights, poor docility, and average growth. I was talking to a long time breeder about this bull a while back and he claimed that net worth has been a big overall disappointment.. I personally haven't used him or had much experience with calves sired by him, though. I have seen a few cows by him and my only take away was plain and high headed.

I would definitely use him. He is only one half of the equation. You did not look at the cow I am using him on. She is well above breed average for growth. Net Worth daughters will always be in demand. Same with SAV Harvestor. By the way, if you can get any SAV Harvestor daughters, you should get as many as you can, they are superb.

When people say a combination was "big disappointment", they rarely tell you about the dam they used. Maybe she was the big disappointment. AI is a great way to improve a herd, but sometimes people are looking for miracles to happen in that straw of semen.

Actually the breeder I was speaking with is from an outfit that I've seen you cite as one of the pinnacles of the Angus breed :lol: .. keep doing your thing, though. I'm sure you'll teach us poor dumb KY cattlemen a thing or two before long :cowboy:

 

[True Grit Farms]

Tell me why people are trying to cross to Gelbvieh, Charolais, you name it, to get bigger animals? I think you just don't like Angus. If the demand for Wye was what it once was, they would still be topping the sales. They were great in their time, but time has moved on. Size does matter.

There's lots of folks with money from somewhere else besides cattle that want to play cowboy. Nice big, fat looking cows and bulls sell good and look great as long as your not looking to pay the bills with them.

So let me get this straight, according to you, an operation like SAV for example only sells to people "playing cowboy"? You think people are buying their bulls because they look pretty? Are you messing with us all? I'll bet that SAV has some VERY SERIOUS commercial cattlemen buying bulls from them, and the last thing they are doing is trying to "play cowboy"

I know you are just being funny.

Not being funny at all, I'd be curious to know what percentage of SAV cows weigh over 2000lbs. A serious thrifty commercial cattleman would just come to Georgia, Florida or Tennessee and buy the same SAV genetics for less than $0.50 cents on the dollar.

 

[True Grit Farms]

That cow's brisket looks terrible to me. And is she fine boned? Her legs look like toothpicks.