Beginning an operation...

[chippie]

How much acreage to you actually have?
How much do you want to invest?

Many people are happy with commercial herds and while others prefer raising a registered breed. One thing about raising a registered breed is that you really have to work to get your stock out in the public eye so that producers will want it. There are different expenses with registered breeds that you will not have with a commercial operation such as membership fees, registration fees and advertising. Plus the cost of buying quality registered stock can be quite a bit more than the price of commercial cows.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I have seen a couple of threads here discussing how newbies should get into the cattle business. So the question is...for someone with limited acreage, should the begin with a small commercial herd and then graduate to purebred? For instance, a small commercial cow/calf operation and then move into replacement quality pure bred animals? If money is the goal..ultimately pure bred replacements would be the way to go correct? But one needs experience prior to pure breds? Any tips on what you guys would do?

Thanks a million,

Tim

If you want to start out as a small registered operation you will need a bunch of money to end up with a little.
The registered game is a money game. You have to remember just because it has paper's doesn't make it good.
A lot of the sucessful operation's run a commercial and a registered herd.
You will make more off a good commercial calf at the salebarn than a registered it is just going to weigh more at weaning. That's just science. Remember 70 to 80% of your registered calves are salebarn material, as only the best of the best should be retained as seedstock.

 

[Limomike]

Cb is right on. I would say if you are a newbie, then start out commercial, see how you REALLY like the cattle business, then if you got the funds & time, then in a few years, move to purebred registered. But, thats totally up to you.

 

[chippie]

That is what we do. We do not have enough cows to justify buying a bull & feeding it. You didn't say where you are located. Stocking rates vary across the county. Where you live & your terrain & climate will have a bearing on how many cows your place can carry
I enjoy our cows most of the time. They pay for themselves plus put a little $ in our pocket.

 

[HOSS]

D&C, that is the direction I have taken. I started out several years ago with just commercial cows. After aggressivly culling and learning what to select in genetics I continually improved my commercial herd (In recent years I have used AI pretty heavily). I think I have learned enough to begin switching, slowly, to a registered herd. As I cull lower performing cows I replace them with registered stock which I then AI breed to top bulls. I am still in transition. I am doing it on zero debt. Too many people have lost a fortune trying to buy into the registered business on borrowed money. Right now I only have 7 registered animals. During this time of improving my commercial herd I found that I could sell heifers direct to other farmers looking for top quality replacements so I have pretty much stopped selling those at the sale barn and get a premium from buyers that I have networked with through my cattleman's association etc. With a good reputation that I have cultivated with those that have bought cows or heifers from me I have started marketing my registered bulls to them. I have had no problem selling last years bulls and though the few bulls that I have right now are still on the teat I have verbal commitments for them if they look as good as I suspect that they will. I opted to proceed SLOWLY and learn the registered game by getting my mistakes out of the way early when it does not affect me as bad as if I screwed up with 50 yearling bulls on my hands. My strategy may not work for everyone but for me it is what I am comfortable with.

 

[High Cotton]

You could also do embryo transfer in to your commercial cows to get started in the seed stock buisness. For me it takes more than I have to invest to get some where in the seedstock buisness. I will be happy with a commercial herd. I get to do something I enjoy for myself instead of doing it for someone else for little to no pay.

 

[SSGenetics]

You could also do embryo transfer in to your commercial cows to get started in the seed stock buisness. For me it takes more than I have to invest to get some where in the seedstock buisness. I will be happy with a commercial herd. I get to do something I enjoy for myself instead of doing it for someone else for little to no pay.

Please elaborate...

 

[High Cotton]

You could also do embryo transfer in to your commercial cows to get started in the seed stock buisness. For me it takes more than I have to invest to get some where in the seedstock buisness. I will be happy with a commercial herd. I get to do something I enjoy for myself instead of doing it for someone else for little to no pay.

Please elaborate...

I have worked for people growing up and now I work for some people who live close to me. I don't make very much but I have learned alot in the last few years. I leaned alot of what I do and don't like about alot of things. I think it will save me alot of money in the long run. I guess if you look at the big picture it all equals out.

 

[AllForage]

First of all, if I missed something, 20 acres Where? Big difference in 20 acres in WI or southern Georgia. With only 20 acres cow calf will never pay either commercial of registered. It is still a business of scale and the scale is getting bigger everyday. Your best bet would be to buy in stockers and do some sort of beef marketing. Even still, breaking even will be a challenge. Sorry to rain on the parade.

You would be better served in sheep. please save the I hate sheep comments. I run both and could give you some $ figures if you PM me.

 

[Caustic Burno]

First of all, if I missed something, 20 acres Where? Big difference in 20 acres in WI or southern Georgia. With only 20 acres cow calf will never pay either commercial of registered. It is still a business of scale and the scale is getting bigger everyday. Your best bet would be to buy in stockers and do some sort of beef marketing. Even still, breaking even will be a challenge. Sorry to rain on the parade.

You would be better served in sheep. please save the I hate sheep comments. I run both and could give you some $ figures if you PM me.

Makes a big difference on the here. As in here with the right pasture management he could run 18 or 19 momma cows with a bull. Of course he would be purchasing his hay. This statement only applies to pre drought years.
Before the drought I ran as high as 37 along with hay fields, after the drought I was down to 12. I have ran 29 this year by picking up heavies to process surplus grass to cash. Heavies is another option if he sets up a good infrastucture. Most of the girl's I picked up in the spring early summer are leaving soon. He could run heavies calf them out sell them and not fool with cattle in the winter months.

 

[chippie]

Sheep are very profitable.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

My advise if money is the goal is not to get into a cow calf operation. I don't know where you are but in my area it would not work on 20 acres. because you would only be able to run about 7 pair and a bull and then have to buy hay if you didn't have a way to bale your own and that would cost what atleast 2 of your calves will bring.What i would do if it was me and where i am would be buy about 20 or a few more 200 to 300 pound beef calves every march or april.Wean worm blackleg and cut or band then turn out i would feed 3 to 5 pounds a day of something you can get reasonably but still a good feed and then sell before winter when i would have to feed hay.this is just what would work here where i am. if you can get more cows on 20 acres where you are and hay is not an issue then that would be fine. But not something that could make money for me.

 

[dieselbeef]

ther aint no way a dozen cow calfs will pay the land mtg no matter what yer selling..unless its some very high dollar stuff like my buddy's national champ brahma's..20 ac..wont make nothing...dont count the land and buy alotta feed ya might be close some yrs....that pasture wont last long at that heavy stocking rate tho

 

[highgrit]

You need 10 moma cows and a rotational grazing plan. If you manage your land I. see
no reason you can't clear 2-3 hundred dollars a calf. If the price stays strong. The
problem with cows on small acreage is they need to be looked after daily. And it
cost alot to get started.

 

[Brute 23]

20ac... I would plant it in coastal or what ever brings the most for hay. Get me a good little tractor with a cab, some little hay equipment and a good barn. Sell square bales to horse people for a premium... graze one or two steers for butcher.

 

[AllForage]

As I said, if you want to spend some money on a hobby have at it, but don't plan on making any or breaking even for that matter. If you got the funds have fun and do what interests you. You will eventually figure it out. If you could eventually lease some pasture the math might turn around. Your goal eventually would be to stockpile to feed the least amount of hay, that is where the profit lies.

 

[dieselbeef]

yepper forage....but row crops would make ALOT more money round here.

as for the land being owned alreday thats a good start. otherwise it might as well be a quarry

 

[Caustic Burno]

He can make a profit on 20 acre's and a pretty good one, neighbor does.
He has a small registerd herd and sells to the show crowd. Now with that said he intensely manage's his cattle with AI sevice and embryo transfer. You have to really keep up with the in cow and follow the circuit as to what his customers are wanting. It's a lot of work.

 

[Chris H]

Thanks for all the information fellas! I should have said I am in central North Carolina. My main goal is not to become a cattle barron or make a ton of money...more to work with the cows and enjoy the lifestyle in some small way. Hopefully make enough money to pay for itself. You guys have given me a lot to think about!!

Tim

Got kids or grandkids that might want to show calves? If so, aim to raise something they'd be interested in showing. That doesn't necessarily mean registered, but it might.

 

[dieselbeef]

He can make a profit on 20 acre's and a pretty good one, neighbor does.
He has a small registerd herd and sells to the show crowd. Now with that said he intensely manage's his cattle with AI sevice and embryo transfer. You have to really keep up with the in cow and follow the circuit as to what his customers are wanting. It's a lot of work.

if we dont include the land..which i dont cause id buy i anyways...i do okay. between the comm side selling em off/the reg beefmasters/the wintering over/backgrounding /free hay/and the beef sales its poss to come out ahead..still say ya cant live off 20 ac of cows..maybe theyll come out enough to support themselves and make enough to buy 3 more reg animals the next yr..course we dont do as well in fl ..but i think our costs are less as well

gary