Be careful what you say to your doctor...

[sim.-ang.king]

What the heck does body armor have to do with mental health issues? Half azz liberals look at things way different than heck bent conservatives.

It shows intent. That this individual was seriously impaired. People without MH issues don't buy armor b/c they don't go shooting up movie theatres.

???
So I guess people with mental health issues planning to shoot up a theater would buy one of these???
http://www.bulletblocker.com/bulletproo ... armor.html

 

[gimpyrancher]

They've been asking these questions at VA appointments for a while now. Talking with the nurses, the common answer to something like, "Do you ever feel like harming yourself or others?" is, "No, but it's early yet."

My answer would be, "Not until I walked through these doors."

 

[gimpyrancher]

What I hear a few (?) people here seeming to be advocating is that if you are depressed (maybe even suicidal), you should lie to your dr. so that "they" don't come for your guns. Hmmm, that just a bit...paranoid, which probably has a diagnosis in and of itself! :lol2:

I must have missed something. You say we have people you know that are contemplating suicide and they refuse to speak openly to their doctor? Perhaps the best question would be why "we" feel this way?

How do the member's on this forum speak generally about people with mental health issues? People that are not our personal friends and/or relatives.

Just to be clear, neither my doctor nor his/her nurses have more than a passing exposure to mental health cause and effect. Kinda of like me speaking for my pregnant wife to her OBGYN. I have no problem with speaking with an appropriate professional about a problem. But a professional in one specialty is not automatically a professional in another field.

My primary care doctor is a psychiatrist in a family clinic. He was trying to explain to me about a particular Civil Rights Law and what it meant. That stopped immediately when I told him he was completely wrong and I explained that I did Civil Rights Enforcement in state and federal courts systems for 15+ years and never lost a case. I used to get referrals from DOJ on certain civil rights complaints to handle for them. I also held a doctorate and was a licensed doctor for 30 years.

I since changed doctors.

PS: My son is autistic and has a mental and emotional age of about 5-10. He is over 25. He is unable to form consent. He is unable to tell you his address, phone number, Social Security number, etc. He can't safely cross the street alone. They have Psych reports from professional doctors in the field that say exactly what I said about his "inabilities." The office still calls him and want to speak with him about his care or appointments. They still ask him to sign official, legal binding documents at times. Each time I have to explain that he is unable to form consent and is unable to understand what he is being asked to sign.

You may still wonder about the state of our mental health system. You may discuss how to improve the system. Many of us lost our wonder and hope for the system we have at the moment simply because we are on the inside. The ones with the most intimate knowledge of the system are rarely part of the solution.

 

[boondocks]

What I hear a few (?) people here seeming to be advocating is that if you are depressed (maybe even suicidal), you should lie to your dr. so that "they" don't come for your guns. Hmmm, that just a bit...paranoid, which probably has a diagnosis in and of itself! :lol2:

I must have missed something. You say we have people you know that are contemplating suicide and they refuse to speak openly to their doctor? Perhaps the best question would be why "we" feel this way?

How do the member's on this forum speak generally about people with mental health issues? People that are not our personal friends and/or relatives.

Just to be clear, neither my doctor nor his/her nurses have more than a passing exposure to mental health cause and effect. Kinda of like me speaking for my pregnant wife to her OBGYN. I have no problem with speaking with an appropriate professional about a problem. But a professional in one specialty is not automatically a professional in another field.

My primary care doctor is a psychiatrist in a family clinic. He was trying to explain to me about a particular Civil Rights Law and what it meant. That stopped immediately when I told him he was completely wrong and I explained that I did Civil Rights Enforcement in state and federal courts systems for 15+ years and never lost a case. I used to get referrals from DOJ on certain civil rights complaints to handle for them. I also held a doctorate and was a licensed doctor for 30 years.

I since changed doctors.

PS: My son is autistic and has a mental and emotional age of about 5-10. He is over 25. He is unable to form consent. He is unable to tell you his address, phone number, Social Security number, etc. He can't safely cross the street alone. They have Psych reports from professional doctors in the field that say exactly what I said about his "inabilities." The office still calls him and want to speak with him about his care or appointments. They still ask him to sign official, legal binding documents at times. Each time I have to explain that he is unable to form consent and is unable to understand what he is being asked to sign.

You may still wonder about the state of our mental health system. You may discuss how to improve the system. Many of us lost our wonder and hope for the system we have at the moment simply because we are on the inside. The ones with the most intimate knowledge of the system are rarely part of the solution.

If I'm following you (hey, it's late), I think you are saying (in part) that we should all stick to our own areas of expertise. (But what fun wold that be? ;-)
On a more serious note, I hear what you're saying about specialists, but I guess I do think that primary care providers (as the point of first, and most frequent, contact) should be screening (or at least on the watch) for serious mental health concerns. They can always refer on to a counselor, psychiatrist, etc. In the (beautiful but economically-challenged) area I live in, there are very few mental health specialists, and by default, most care (if any can be had at all) is provided by those on the front lines. It is a real challenge.
I'm sure you are right that those with intimate knowledge of a system's failures are the least likely to be asked how to fix it!

 

[Askme42]

During my physical last summer, the nurse had some papers from my insurance company to fill out. One of the questions was asking if I was depressed and did I ever have thoughts of harming myself. I wondered what that was all about, as I had never been asked before. Thank goodness I said no. You have to watch every thing now and think before you answer. Who would have ever thought about gun control. The government is trying to control every part of our lives now. It is sad.

But should you answer dishonestly just so you can own a gun?


I can tell you right now I know someone who has tried to kill themselves multiple times and is pretty unstable. He lied to get his foid card and honestly with what there is a record of I can't believe he didn't raise a red flag.


I love my guns as much as the next person but some people aren't stable enough to be given that sort of responsibility

 

[TexasBred]

On a more serious note, I hear what you're saying about specialists, but I guess I do think that primary care providers (as the point of first, and most frequent, contact) should be screening (or at least on the watch) for serious mental health concerns. They can always refer on to a counselor, psychiatrist, etc. In the (beautiful but economically-challenged) area I live in, there are very few mental health specialists, and by default, most care (if any can be had at all) is provided by those on the front lines. It is a real challenge.
I'm sure you are right that those with intimate knowledge of a system's failures are the least likely to be asked how to fix it!

Pretty much how I see them. Primary health provider takes care of run of the mill medical procedures, innoculations, sore throats, fevers etc. and is often simply a caseworker who refers you to the best specialist with the training to proceed with diagnosis and treatment. This is all assuming you give them factual answers to their questions.

 

[talltimber]

I can tell you right now I know someone who has tried to kill themselves multiple times and is pretty unstable. He lied to get his foid card and honestly with what there is a record of I can't believe he didn't raise a red flag.


I love my guns as much as the next person but some people aren't stable enough to be given that sort of responsibility

And that right there is a perfect example of one reason why more restrictive gun laws won't work. The gun laws on the books now are not being enforced. Before restricting law abiding/sane citizens of their options for self protection, or deciding what everyone needs or doesn't need, if they would put some the gazillions of tax dollars to work actually doing some work (researching records at the very least) then maybe we would actually gain some ground in keeping disqualified persons from walking out of the shops with a gun like they were legal.

I get so fired up over this. It's sickening for me to think about. From "two blast" Biden to the firearms expert astronaut. Amazing.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

Along those lines....


Written by Mike Rowe from the series about dirty jobs. Talk about common sense, actually using known information would be common sense.

Hello Friends

I've just received a request from The White House! On behalf of The President, I've been asked to share some talking points directly with each one of you, regarding the need to expand background checks on those citizens who wish to purchase a gun!

Just kidding.

For some reason, I was not among those celebrities selected to assist The White House in this endeavor. I've since recovered from my initial disappointment, and identified three possible explanations for the oversight.

1. The White House did not ask for my assistance, because they do not believe I'm famous enough to persuade anyone of anything.

2. The White House did not ask for my assistance, because they do not believe I would tweet out someone else's words and claim them as my own.

3. The White House did not ask for my assistance, because they do not believe I support background checks.

With respect to #1, The White House is correct. My powers of persuasion, like my celebrity, are limited.

Regarding #2, The White House is correct again. I would never post someone else's talking points as if they were my own. My own particular brand of hubris requires me to use my own words, which is probably why everyone in my office has developed a permanent facial tick.

As for #3 though, The White House would be mistaken to assume that I oppose background checks on gun purchases. I do not. I'm just skeptical that expanding a broken system is the best way to keep guns away from bad guys and lunatics.

Currently, thousands of people deemed mentally incompetent by the courts are NOT registered in our National Check System. That's insane, if you'll pardon the irony, in part because it's so easily correctible. Likewise, The ATF says that most states report less than 80% of their felony convictions to the national system. As a result, nearly 7 million convicted felons are not currently registered. Is it any surprise that nearly every mass killer in recent memory passed a background check?

Seems to me, our current system is only as good as the records in it, and right now, those records are laughably incomplete. But even more troubling are the tens of thousands of people who ARE in the system, that keep trying to buy guns illegally with absolutely no consequence.

Lying on your application to purchase a firearm is a federal offense, but very few are prosecuted for doing so. According to Politico, the Feds have prosecuted just 1.5% of all those individuals who have attempted to purchase a gun illegally. If my math is correct, that means 98.5% of people who are NOT allowed to own a gun, have not been prosecuted for trying to buy one.

Maybe it's a manpower problem? Maybe it's a resource problem? But whatever the reason, many thousands of individuals who try to purchase a gun illegally are allowed to keep on trying. Many eventually succeed, and then use that gun in the commission of a crime. This strikes me a serious problem. And yet, I've received no tweets from my favorite action heroes, asking me to support an effort to fix the system we have. Why is that?

To be clear, I'm not a member of The NRA. Last time I joined a club it was The Boy Scouts, and that was a long time ago. But from what I can tell, the NRA is not the reason that so many criminals and lunatics are able to buy guns today. Nor do they appear to oppose the kind of overhaul that would give us a more effective check system. In fact, wasn't it The NRA that demanded background checks back in the mid-nineties, the moment the technology was first made available?

Regardless, we now possess the technology to update and maintain an accurate data base of felons, lunatics, gang members, terrorists, B-list celebrities, and other unsavory types that we can all agree should never be allowed to own a weapon. We also possess the ability to identify and prosecute anyone who attempts to buy a gun illegally. But if we don't have the resources or the commitment to administer and enforce the system we have, why in the world would we want to make it bigger?

#When there's a hole in your net, you don't need a bigger net; you need a smaller hole.

#When your foundation is shaky, you don't keep building on top of it, you knock it down and start over.

Should The White House ever find itself in need of a tweet in support of that approach, please help yourself to either of the above. But if our elected officials are going to rely on actors and comedians to advance their political agendas, let's not limit them to 140 characters or a list of pre-approved talking points. Seriously, where's the fun in that? In the name of authenticity, let's encourage our celebrities to use their own words.

Hey – it seems to be working for Trump…

Mike

 

[dun]

I double checked and it is in fact on his facebook page.

 

[gimpyrancher]

Pretty much how I see them. Primary health provider takes care of run of the mill medical procedures, innoculations, sore throats, fevers etc. and is often simply a caseworker who refers you to the best specialist with the training to proceed with diagnosis and treatment. This is all assuming you give them factual answers to their questions.

Far to simple an answer. How do we continue to allow our young people, sent to fight our battles all over the world and then refuse to treat, obvious to everyone, mental damage caused by their service to us? How do we continue to ask them to go over seas to fight just to return and find that their jobs were and financial future has been sent overseas also?

Or as in my personal case, my autistic son, that needs daily meds, was unable to see a qualified doctor for over 12 months when we moved from one state to the next. 12 months where not only my son but pretty much all the family was required to stay at home for that year. And we are the lucky ones.

I would never suggest that a GP (family doctor) is anything less than a full fledged doctor. However, in this case, they are not trained enough and do not have sufficient support from their staff because if the head of the snake doesn't know the subject, the rest of the body won't either.

 

[TexasBred]

Pretty much how I see them. Primary health provider takes care of run of the mill medical procedures, innoculations, sore throats, fevers etc. and is often simply a caseworker who refers you to the best specialist with the training to proceed with diagnosis and treatment. This is all assuming you give them factual answers to their questions.

Far to simple an answer. How do we continue to allow our young people, sent to fight our battles all over the world and then refuse to treat, obvious to everyone, mental damage caused by their service to us? How do we continue to ask them to go over seas to fight just to return and find that their jobs were and financial future has been sent overseas also?

Or as in my personal case, my autistic son, that needs daily meds, was unable to see a qualified doctor for over 12 months when we moved from one state to the next. 12 months where not only my son but pretty much all the family was required to stay at home for that year. And we are the lucky ones.

I would never suggest that a GP (family doctor) is anything less than a full fledged doctor. However, in this case, they are not trained enough and do not have sufficient support from their staff because if the head of the snake doesn't know the subject, the rest of the body won't either.

Sorry Gimpy but I have not seen those problems down here. Maybe the head of the snake around here is a bit more motivated to find the problem. Most GP's around here will tell you they have a network they work within with specialist in just about every field and they take full advantage of them. Just last year my family doctor knowing I had an aortic aneuryism repaired 10 eyars ago always refers me to the hospital for an ultrasound of the repair to make sure it is still holding. Last year they saw anohter small one developing so she referred me to a cardiologist. He ordered a CT scan and in reviewing it saw a dark spot on my lung. He immediately sent me to a pulmonary specialist who performed a biopsy which returned results of non cancerous cyst. The system worked and this was all done within about a month. My cost...Medicare and Supplement covered it all.

 

[greybeard]

That could be a case of apples to oranges.
Now compare your experience TB, to what is often, a very lengthy wait to see a physician at the VA, which is where most combat veterans see a doctor.

 

[dun]

That could be a case of apples to oranges.
Now compare your experience TB, to what is often, a very lengthy wait to see a physician at the VA, which is where most combat veterans see a doctor.

For normal stuff I just use my GP at the local hospital. For the Agent Orange stuff I never had to wait more then 2 weeks between any appointments. The VA deal may be a case of proximity and size.

 

[Workinonit Farm]

That could be a case of apples to oranges.
Now compare your experience TB, to what is often, a very lengthy wait to see a physician at the VA, which is where most combat veterans see a doctor.

For normal stuff I just use my GP at the local hospital. For the Agent Orange stuff I never had to wait more then 2 weeks between any appointments. The VA deal may be a case of proximity and size.

Could be, maybe.

I do know that my 82 year-old neighbor gave up on going to the VA a few years ago. He has gotten prompt, better care from the local hospital and physicians than he ever did at the VA.

 

[TexasBred]

That could be a case of apples to oranges.
Now compare your experience TB, to what is often, a very lengthy wait to see a physician at the VA, which is where most combat veterans see a doctor.

I didn't realize we were discussing vets, but yes I spend one day a week volunteering in the Waco VA. Have heard a lot of first hand stories about the wait, redtape, left hanging high and dry and hopefully getting an appointment someday.

 

[greybeard]

That could be a case of apples to oranges.
Now compare your experience TB, to what is often, a very lengthy wait to see a physician at the VA, which is where most combat veterans see a doctor.

I didn't realize we were discussing vets, but yes I spend one day a week volunteering in the Waco VA. Have heard a lot of first hand stories about the wait, redtape, left hanging high and dry and hopefully getting an appointment someday.

You replied to Gimpy's post, even quoted it IN your reply, and in part, his post stated: " How do we continue to allow our young people, sent to fight our battles all over the world and then refuse to treat, obvious to everyone, mental damage caused by their service to us? How do we continue to ask them to go over seas to fight just to return and find that their jobs were and financial future has been sent overseas also?"

 

[gimpyrancher]

Texas,

> Sorry Gimpy but I have not seen those problems down here. Maybe the head of the snake around here is a bit more motivated to find the problem.

Just to make sure, you do live in the U.S. right? I just wonder because the regular news media has been talking about problems in our healthcare system for decades. Perhaps Fox so-called News hasn't mentioned it.

I'm sorry, what do you do for a living?

Unless you are or have been a doctor, you have no idea what goes on and not a person that has any credibility on the subject. My 30 years as a licensed doctor, trumps your personal opinion of what reality is in healthcare business.

By the way, I say that you know little or nothing about farming/ranching. That opinion coming from someone that has never been in that business. Do you really think I have a credible opinion on your business? I have as much credibility as you do.

 

[TexasBred]

Texas,

> Sorry Gimpy but I have not seen those problems down here. Maybe the head of the snake around here is a bit more motivated to find the problem.

Just to make sure, you do live in the U.S. right? I just wonder because the regular news media has been talking about problems in our healthcare system for decades. Perhaps Fox so-called News hasn't mentioned it.

I'm sorry, what do you do for a living?

Unless you are or have been a doctor, you have no idea what goes on and not a person that has any credibility on the subject. My 30 years as a licensed doctor, trumps your personal opinion of what reality is in healthcare business.

By the way, I say that you know little or nothing about farming/ranching. That opinion coming from someone that has never been in that business. Do you really think I have a credible opinion on your business? I have as much credibility as you do.

I'm sorry Gimpy I forgot you live in Oregon and I assume practiced there and all of my experience has been in Texas. Maybe its a Texas thing, I don't know. I just know for me and most others I'm acquainted with the situation has been nothing like what you're trying to sell. But I speak only of the physicians, networks and hospitals that I am familiar with not the industry as a whole. We do have some rather highly rated hospitals and doctors down here who are very dedicated to their work and their patients. Guess I was just lucky to find some of them.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Texas,

> Sorry Gimpy but I have not seen those problems down here. Maybe the head of the snake around here is a bit more motivated to find the problem.

Just to make sure, you do live in the U.S. right? I just wonder because the regular news media has been talking about problems in our healthcare system for decades. Perhaps Fox so-called News hasn't mentioned it.

I'm sorry, what do you do for a living?

Unless you are or have been a doctor, you have no idea what goes on and not a person that has any credibility on the subject. My 30 years as a licensed doctor, trumps your personal opinion of what reality is in healthcare business.

By the way, I say that you know little or nothing about farming/ranching. That opinion coming from someone that has never been in that business. Do you really think I have a credible opinion on your business? I have as much credibility as you do.

If your a 30 year licensed Dr. I bet your patient turn over rate is through the roof with
the personality of a rattlesnake . Gives you a lot of time to read the regs I bet.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

:lol2: well I guess that just settles everything on the intranets.... "I'm a licensed doctor", facts no longer matter. :lol: :lol: :roll:

You want to know who else are licensed doctors? Every quack that has been sued for malpractice.

Amazingly enough, your opinion doesn't match any physician I know. But of course most are pretty respected...